Let me get your opinions on these (possible?) changes for Sorc?

ItsNebula

Mages Fury skill;
Endless Fury - take away the 4 second explosion, keep the magicka return. Make it do more damage at 25% HP and less. Make it undodgdable. Good for PvP.
Mages Wrath - Give this the 4 second explosion, and after it exploded leaves a DoT. Maybe 20k over 10 seconds. (Damage reduced in pvp) gives no magicka back, and it’s dodgeable. Doesn’t give bonus damage at exscute. Good for PvE.

Crystal Shard;
Crystal Fragments - give back the stun and bonus damage, give the proc a 2 second cooldown.
Crystal Blast - Longer stun, adds a snare and 5k DoT over 2 seconds.

Rune Prison;
Rune Cage - reduce the CC by 2 seconds. (5-3) add a 4 second snare.
Defensive Rune - 5 second stun, stuns 2 people before you need to recast. Recasting within 4 seconds increase the cost by 100% every time.

Bound Armor;
Bound Armaments - also gives minor brutality upon activation (5 seconds)
Bound Aegis - Also gives minor sorcery upon activating (5 seconds)

Encase;
Shattering Prison - also adds minor defile
Restraining Prison - also gives a 10k DoT over5 seconds, but has a shorter root duriation

Thoughts? These imo are meant to nerf, buff and balance for both aspects of the game, and give more of a build diversity with sorcs.

Edit - title change, grammar

davey1107

Yeah...I'm not sure that adding features to a bunch of abilities and taking nothing away is the technical definition of 'nerf', lol.

The endless fury change would help with one of the more lethal combos in the game. Maybe there's a third, but for me the stamblade combo and the magsorc combo using this are the only two that really ever kill me in 1/2 second or less. This would be an actual nerf, and feels like it would just remove the extra-lethal combo opportunity without killing the skill.

Crystal: that feels like an outright buff. I haven't PVP'd in my magsorc for a while so I can't say for sure they don't need the stuns, but my intuition is that they need some damage help here and not stuns.

Rune Prison: I think ZOS was trying to move away from snares because players hate them. Rune Prison is one of the most annoying abilities in the game right now...I stalk a sorc, I found them defenseless, I target them, but they get to snare me. Effing Wrobel.

Bound armaments: My stam sorc could use a little more dps, so minor brutality like that would be nice. I can think of other classes that have similar buffs...you're right, stam sorcs don't really have access to minors that I can think of.

Bound Aegis: I'm betting mag sorc dps tables for PVE and PVP show they don't need a boost compared to other classes. That would be my metric...yes or no depending on what ZOS's internal data shows.


Overall, the list feels like something that would buff sorcs a bit. I'm not sure it adds diversity since you're taking 3-4 skills they all use and buffing them. And they don't address my issue with sorcs:

- In groups, they are too powerful in putting enemies constantly on the defensive. You get one sorc cursing and snaring you, and while you might be able to deal with that you get trampled by their allies. I'd like to see the snares toned down to be more in line with other classes, and I'd like CURSE TO BE A SINGLE CAST. Yes that is intended as yelling. A double curse blows skeever wads in PVP. A lot of the gameplay is about using line of sight to disorient an opponent, and the sorc double curse allows enemies to follow you for so long and cause so much disruption that it's really irritating.

- Shield stacking is too powerful, but I'm not sure how you address it without hurting less experienced players. But a shield stacker can mitigate damage about a fast as it can be dealt by two dps builds. My personal benchmark is that if sorcs can be outlast a stam DK while having five players blast them, they're too damn tanky.

However, they don't feel utterly OP right now. They feel like they could use a bit more damage in exchange for a little less defense.

Lord-Otto

Yeah, a lot of the stuff is unnecessary and unwanted, like snares. But you really put a lot of work into it, that is appreciated. And there are a couple points I like.


I'll make it short.
Frags need damage and stun back. I know it, you know it, ZOS know it, Hermaeus Mora knew it ten years ago.
If that is given, I like your Endless Fury change. But without a stunning Frag, that thing must be at the end of the combo, so Wrath for the timer would still be go-to in PvP.
Other de-buffs or minor buffs aren't really needed. I always thought the lack of them justifies a couple interesting strengths. I can already hear the NB crying on the forums should we get any of those.

Stam sorcs have Minor Expedition, by the way. Not the most useful minor buff in PvE. I would suggest moving Minor Intellect to a passive, as Empowered Ward is unwanted in PvP, situational in PvE, and useless to stam sorcs. Minor Expedition could be moved to Armaments.

Vahrokh

What I see are some unnecessary PvP buffs (a snare? Really?) and several unnecessary PvE nerfs - as usual.

Mages Fury skill: we have a PvE morph to affect additional enemies and one to restore magicka on NPC death. BOOM, gone.

Crystal frags 2s proc cooldown = 20-40% CF DPS nerf in PvE.

Bound Armor effects: stuff that we easily get in groups / trials.

ItsNebula

davey1107 wrote: »

Yeah...I'm not sure that adding features to a bunch of abilities and taking nothing away is the technical definition of 'nerf', lol.

The endless fury change would help with one of the more lethal combos in the game. Maybe there's a third, but for me the stamblade combo and the magsorc combo using this are the only two that really ever kill me in 1/2 second or less. This would be an actual nerf, and feels like it would just remove the extra-lethal combo opportunity without killing the skill.

Crystal: that feels like an outright buff. I haven't PVP'd in my magsorc for a while so I can't say for sure they don't need the stuns, but my intuition is that they need some damage help here and not stuns.

Rune Prison: I think ZOS was trying to move away from snares because players hate them. Rune Prison is one of the most annoying abilities in the game right now...I stalk a sorc, I found them defenseless, I target them, but they get to snare me. Effing Wrobel.

Bound armaments: My stam sorc could use a little more dps, so minor brutality like that would be nice. I can think of other classes that have similar buffs...you're right, stam sorcs don't really have access to minors that I can think of.

Bound Aegis: I'm betting mag sorc dps tables for PVE and PVP show they don't need a boost compared to other classes. That would be my metric...yes or no depending on what ZOS's internal data shows.


Overall, the list feels like something that would buff sorcs a bit. I'm not sure it adds diversity since you're taking 3-4 skills they all use and buffing them. And they don't address my issue with sorcs:

- In groups, they are too powerful in putting enemies constantly on the defensive. You get one sorc cursing and snaring you, and while you might be able to deal with that you get trampled by their allies. I'd like to see the snares toned down to be more in line with other classes, and I'd like CURSE TO BE A SINGLE CAST. Yes that is intended as yelling. A double curse blows skeever wads in PVP. A lot of the gameplay is about using line of sight to disorient an opponent, and the sorc double curse allows enemies to follow you for so long and cause so much disruption that it's really irritating.

- Shield stacking is too powerful, but I'm not sure how you address it without hurting less experienced players. But a shield stacker can mitigate damage about a fast as it can be dealt by two dps builds. My personal benchmark is that if sorcs can be outlast a stam DK while having five players blast them, they're too damn tanky.

However, they don't feel utterly OP right now. They feel like they could use a bit more damage in exchange for a little less defense.

The reason the snares would help is because currently, Sorc is prolly the worst solo class (1vX wise) and small scale, especailly with all the zergs. Having snares gives the player a little more help to snare enemies, and evade some damage. The endless would be a buff, as against a good player, youre not going to burst them down to 25% for the explosion proc, but when/if you do, theyll just spam dodge and heal up, if Endless was undodgeable, they couldnt do that. That change would honestly be all opinion based. Id much rather prefer that.

Shield stacking also isnt that good ina 1vX, as you can easily take 20k+ dmg in just a second itself if theyre that many people on you.


Everything i mentioned tho, are just personal preferences that i dont think would be to broken (To the players that dont rely on 20 others to kill 1 person at least)

I knew not everyone would agree with the changes, but i was just throwing my ideas out there

ItsNebula

Vahrokh wrote: »

What I see are some unnecessary PvP buffs (a snare? Really?) and several unnecessary PvE nerfs - as usual.

Mages Fury skill: we have a PvE morph to affect additional enemies and one to restore magicka on NPC death. BOOM, gone.

Crystal frags 2s proc cooldown = 20-40% CF DPS nerf in PvE.

Bound Armor effects: stuff that we easily get in groups / trials.

Sure in group content youll get those minor buffs, but not in solo content, or maybe even just dungeons. Something nice to give more build diversity, helps new players as well.

IZZEFlameLash

You know the drill. Nerf Sorc is the only true answer.

DDuke

So you want Rune Cage to snare people, still be undodgeable/blockable (CC duration is irrelevant, gets CC broken instantly by good players just like any other CC), the Frags that 100% guaranteed connect thanks to Rune Cage to deal 10% more damage, Bound Aegis to buff sorc burst even further with Minor Sorcery and Endless Fury to instagib dodge rollers (since they just made it dodgeable on PTS) because dodge rollers weren't easy enough to kill already.


Something tells me you might not have fully thought that through.

ItsNebula

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Yeah, a lot of the stuff is unnecessary and unwanted, like snares. But you really put a lot of work into it, that is appreciated. And there are a couple points I like.


I'll make it short.
Frags need damage and stun back. I know it, you know it, ZOS know it, Hermaeus Mora knew it ten years ago.
If that is given, I like your Endless Fury change. But without a stunning Frag, that thing must be at the end of the combo, so Wrath for the timer would still be go-to in PvP.
Other de-buffs or minor buffs aren't really needed. I always thought the lack of them justifies a couple interesting strengths. I can already hear the NB crying on the forums should we get any of those.

Stam sorcs have Minor Expedition, by the way. Not the most useful minor buff in PvE. I would suggest moving Minor Intellect to a passive, as Empowered Ward is unwanted in PvP, situational in PvE, and useless to stam sorcs. Minor Expedition could be moved to Armaments.

I appreciate your feed back

The main reason i want that endless fury change, is because EVERY stam toon has the opportunity to have a undodgeable execute (Steel) and MagPlars do too, so i figured it wouldnt be bad to give 1 more mag class that as well. Especially since, personally, in a 1vX, having that explosion is nearly useless if theyre multiple healers with them

usmguy1234

ItsNebula wrote: »

Mages Fury skill;
Endless Fury - take away the 4 second explosion, keep the magicka return. Make it do more damage at 25% HP and less. Make it undodgdable. Good for PvP.
Mages Wrath - Give this the 4 second explosion, and after it exploded leaves a DoT. Maybe 20k over 10 seconds. (Damage reduced in pvp) gives no magicka back, and it’s dodgeable. Doesn’t give bonus damage at exscute. Good for PvE.

Crystal Shard;
Crystal Fragments - give back the stun and bonus damage, give the proc a 2 second cooldown.
Crystal Blast - Longer stun, adds a snare and 5k DoT over 2 seconds.

Rune Prison;
Rune Cage - reduce the CC by 2 seconds. (5-3) add a 4 second snare.
Defensive Rune - 5 second stun, stuns 2 people before you need to recast. Recasting within 4 seconds increase the cost by 100% every time.

Bound Armor;
Bound Armaments - also gives minor brutality upon activation (5 seconds)
Bound Aegis - Also gives minor sorcery upon activating (5 seconds)

Encase;
Shattering Prison - also adds minor defile
Restraining Prison - also gives a 10k DoT over5 seconds, but has a shorter root duriation

Thoughts? These imo are meant to nerf, buff and balance for both aspects of the game, and give more of a build diversity with sorcs.

Edit - title change, grammar

Is this toxic nebula?

ItsNebula

usmguy1234 wrote: »

ItsNebula wrote: »

Mages Fury skill;
Endless Fury - take away the 4 second explosion, keep the magicka return. Make it do more damage at 25% HP and less. Make it undodgdable. Good for PvP.
Mages Wrath - Give this the 4 second explosion, and after it exploded leaves a DoT. Maybe 20k over 10 seconds. (Damage reduced in pvp) gives no magicka back, and it’s dodgeable. Doesn’t give bonus damage at exscute. Good for PvE.

Crystal Shard;
Crystal Fragments - give back the stun and bonus damage, give the proc a 2 second cooldown.
Crystal Blast - Longer stun, adds a snare and 5k DoT over 2 seconds.

Rune Prison;
Rune Cage - reduce the CC by 2 seconds. (5-3) add a 4 second snare.
Defensive Rune - 5 second stun, stuns 2 people before you need to recast. Recasting within 4 seconds increase the cost by 100% every time.

Bound Armor;
Bound Armaments - also gives minor brutality upon activation (5 seconds)
Bound Aegis - Also gives minor sorcery upon activating (5 seconds)

Encase;
Shattering Prison - also adds minor defile
Restraining Prison - also gives a 10k DoT over5 seconds, but has a shorter root duriation

Thoughts? These imo are meant to nerf, buff and balance for both aspects of the game, and give more of a build diversity with sorcs.

Edit - title change, grammar

Is this toxic nebula?

no, 2 different people