Are Undaunted Chests Too Diluted?

Vapirko

I’m definitely looking forward to the new DLC coming up, but I’m not looking forward to more monster shoulders being added to the Undaunted rewards chests. It seems like the RNG for getting the right set, never mind the right weight, is getting a little out of hand. I think it’s time to see some sort of change to this system simply based on how many monster sets exist now.

Ulo

Yes, The Undaunted Chests Need Changes

Yes they are, but less chance of getting what you want and more grinding is what the game is becoming all about. I’m sure those chests are heavily skewed towards traits like well fitted and invigorating anyway.

Cruxanero

Yes, The Undaunted Chests Need Changes

The main problem is that with each new set the probability to get what you want decreases. That's especially problematic if you farmed Undaunted chests before and get everything that you needed at one point. If they add a new set you want you have to start all over with farming, only now it will take even longer than before. And that's with each new set that you need. You kind of feel penalized for farming before, and your work invested is completely worthless now. So every new set is kind of a reset to zero when it comes to Undaunted fasrming.

I don't really mind the traits, btw. On the contrary, I'm at transmute crystal cap and have countless of geodes stored. The problem is getting the gear I want to transmute, not to get the transmutation crystals.

Vapirko

Yes, The Undaunted Chests Need Changes

Ulo wrote: »

Yes they are, but less chance of getting what you want and more grinding is what the game is becoming all about. I’m sure those chests are heavily skewed towards traits like well fitted and invigorating anyway.

Transmute stones are common enough that traits isn’t an issue so much. I just think the Undaunted chests were designed at a certain point and since then they’ve added a fair number of pieces with more on the way. Why should it get worse as time goes on?

roarr

Yes, The Undaunted Chests Need Changes

Instead of keys, we should be getting tokens. X tokens can be exchanged for desired Item.

Vapirko

Yes, The Undaunted Chests Need Changes

roarr wrote: »

Instead of keys, we should be getting tokens. X tokens can be exchanged for desired Item.

If the plan to continue adding to the same three chests I definitely agree that it’s time for some system like this.

Lucious90

roarr wrote: »

Instead of keys, we should be getting tokens. X tokens can be exchanged for desired Item.

Was about to suggest something like this, the issue that I have with doing the undaunted is after you have the skill line leveled and the gear you want.... Whats the point?

What they should do is introduce undaunted pve full armor sets and change everything to tokens

Cruxanero

Yes, The Undaunted Chests Need Changes

roarr wrote: »

Instead of keys, we should be getting tokens. X tokens can be exchanged for desired Item.

Yeah, the same as has been suggested so often for vMA, only that here it would be way more needed. For vMA at least no new items are constantly getting added to the loot table, which means that eventually you'll get what you want and don't have to start over with a new patch. But with Undaunted chests it's the problem that new sets tend to be desired to give people an incnetive to purchase access to the DLCs containing them, which can also mean that you farm again every couple of months.

Problem is that they seem really against token systems and if they add work arounds they are capped somehow (like transmute crystals). Farming with RNG is by design in ESO, unfortunately.

Vapirko

Yes, The Undaunted Chests Need Changes

Cruxanero wrote: »

roarr wrote: »

Instead of keys, we should be getting tokens. X tokens can be exchanged for desired Item.

Yeah, the same as has been suggested so often for vMA, only that here it would be way more needed. For vMA at least no new items are constantly getting added to the loot table, which means that eventually you'll get what you want and don't have to start over with a new patch. But with Undaunted chests it's the problem that new sets tend to be desired to give people an incnetive to purchase access to the DLCs containing them, which can also mean that you farm again every couple of months.

Problem is that they seem really against token systems and if they add work arounds they are capped somehow (like transmute crystals). Farming with RNG is by design in ESO, unfortunately.

vMA weapons are (were) something special so imo things like that should be difficult to get. A token system would be appropriate for Undaunted chests, especially since you have to get a minimum of two RNG elements (weight and style) to come up, vMA I’m not sure if I agree with.

Prof_Bawbag

Like most other things in this game, it's called the "Skinner Effect". It's what keeps most folk playing.

karekiz

Yes, The Undaunted Chests Need Changes

Keys for random with random trait. Tokens from completing the dungeon on hard mode. This allows you to buy the direct shoulder you want.

Vapirko

Yes, The Undaunted Chests Need Changes

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Like most other things in this game, it's called the "Skinner Effect". It's what keeps most folk playing.

Yes, but people would still keep playing with a token system. Also, it’s not like you get what you need and then stop playing lol. The idea is you want to play more when you have the build you want. Otherwise what’s the point? I’m more likely to just say screw it over RNG. There should definitely be something to work towards, but again the Undaunted chest system was designed some time ago and the game has moved on.

Prof_Bawbag

Vapirko wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Like most other things in this game, it's called the "Skinner Effect". It's what keeps most folk playing.

Yes, but people would still keep playing with a token system. Also, it’s not like you get what you need and then stop playing lol. The idea is you want to play more when you have the build you want. Otherwise what’s the point? I’m more likely to just say screw it over RNG. There should definitely be something to work towards, but again the Undaunted chest system was designed some time ago and the game has moved on.

That's not what that is about. Giving people what they want 100% of the time, or give them nothing whatsoever 100% of the time results in the same outcome - people get bored. They move on. Give them a pellet of food every now and then, they come back time after time.

It's why we still farm 1000's of mats. Because we know we'll eventually get the reward.

Apologies, I misread your comment. Can't multitask for ***.

Vapirko

Yes, The Undaunted Chests Need Changes

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Like most other things in this game, it's called the "Skinner Effect". It's what keeps most folk playing.

Yes, but people would still keep playing with a token system. Also, it’s not like you get what you need and then stop playing lol. The idea is you want to play more when you have the build you want. Otherwise what’s the point? I’m more likely to just say screw it over RNG. There should definitely be something to work towards, but again the Undaunted chest system was designed some time ago and the game has moved on.

That's not what that is about. Giving people what they want 100% of the time, or give them nothing whatsoever 100% of the time results in the same outcome - people get bored. They move on. Give them a pellet of food every now and them, they come back time after time.

You wouldn’t be giving them what they want 100% of the time. It’s not like 1 HM dungeon = 1 token = 1 monster piece you want. I could see it being something like 1 HM = 1 token, and X tokens = random weight/trait in the set you want. So there’s still RNG it’s just more focused.

Prof_Bawbag

Vapirko wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Like most other things in this game, it's called the "Skinner Effect". It's what keeps most folk playing.

Yes, but people would still keep playing with a token system. Also, it’s not like you get what you need and then stop playing lol. The idea is you want to play more when you have the build you want. Otherwise what’s the point? I’m more likely to just say screw it over RNG. There should definitely be something to work towards, but again the Undaunted chest system was designed some time ago and the game has moved on.

That's not what that is about. Giving people what they want 100% of the time, or give them nothing whatsoever 100% of the time results in the same outcome - people get bored. They move on. Give them a pellet of food every now and them, they come back time after time.

You wouldn’t be giving them what they want 100% of the time. It’s not like 1 HM dungeon = 1 token = 1 monster piece you want. I could see it being something like 1 HM = 1 token, and X tokens = random weight/trait in the set you want. So there’s still RNG it’s just more focused.

Yeah, I was half doing something else and misread your comment.

pod88kk

Yes, The Undaunted Chests Need Changes

A fourth chest should be added for the newer dlcs, especially seeing as they fire them out so regularly

Cruxanero

Yes, The Undaunted Chests Need Changes

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

That's not what that is about. Giving people what they want 100% of the time, or give them nothing whatsoever 100% of the time results in the same outcome - people get bored. They move on. Give them a pellet of food every now and then, they come back time after time.

It's why we still farm 1000's of mats. Because we know we'll eventually get the reward.

And that's exactly what we would get with a token system. You wouldn't get one shoulder token per dungeon run, instead you get one token per run and need, say, 20 to buy a shoulder. That way you don't get a reward every time you run a dungeon, but every 20th time. So the same chance as now, only you know that you WILL get your reward in the end. Currently you can get unlucky and it takes way more longer than average for you to get the right shoulder in the right weight, and that EACH TIME a new set is added. If that's not frustrating now and goes completely against the intended effect...

To take your example, that's not the case with mats. You get mats every time you collect a node, and you know that eventually you will have enough to craft a set of your choice. So on the contrary, mats already work with a token system. If they'd work like Undaunted chests you'd get a random crafted set piece out of a thousand pieces with every node and have a chance to get your desired piece in about the same time as now, only that it's RNG based then.

pauli133

Toss the chests, give us a choice of three items (either random from the whole pool, or one from each of the current chests). They've already worked this sort of interface into the level up rewards, so it's not entirely novel code. Keeps things random, but softens the misery.

Jameliel

Yes, The Undaunted Chests Need Changes

Get rid of useless traits that probably less than 5% of the playerbase uses. Make more undaunted NPCs with more chests to spread out the shoulders. Better yet, introduce a token system. Most of us have been grinding for months or years. Grind is ok to some extent, but it needs to be fun. Doing the exact same uninspired dungeons just to get gear is annoying.

Making it worse are all the useless traits causing further grind for transmutation crystals. I pvp a lot, but I'm not going to pvp on 8 or more toons every single campaign, just to get more crystals. I like to focus with one or maximum 2 toons per campaign. Having multiple sets of armor and weapons to upgrade is already troublesome enough. Throw in the grind of having to run pledges 1000 times and it gets tiring. Then when I finally get comfortably setup to pvp, the lag and bugs ruin it most of the time.

Sergykid

Yes, The Undaunted Chests Need Changes

something worth doing HM other than being the pledge on that day, get a HM token to exchange for a specific set

Lucious90

To me

Jameliel wrote: »

Get rid of useless traits that probably less than 5% of the playerbase uses. Make more undaunted NPCs with more chests to spread out the shoulders. Better yet, introduce a token system. Most of us have been grinding for months or years. Grind is ok to some extent, but it needs to be fun. Doing the exact same uninspired dungeons just to get gear is annoying.

Making it worse are all the useless traits causing further grind for transmutation crystals. I pvp a lot, but I'm not going to pvp on 8 or more toons every single campaign, just to get more crystals. I like to focus with one or maximum 2 toons per campaign. Having multiple sets of armor and weapons to upgrade is already troublesome enough. Throw in the grind of having to run pledges 1000 times and it gets tiring. Then when I finally get comfortably setup to pvp, the lag and bugs ruin it most of the time.

Grind without a sense of progress is nonsense.... do a hybrid system.... Tokens at the end of each Vet Pledge, then X tokens for a picked shoulder set with a random trait and weight. Ive never done the pledges at all because I hate the idea of endless grinding

Prof_Bawbag

Cruxanero wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

That's not what that is about. Giving people what they want 100% of the time, or give them nothing whatsoever 100% of the time results in the same outcome - people get bored. They move on. Give them a pellet of food every now and then, they come back time after time.

It's why we still farm 1000's of mats. Because we know we'll eventually get the reward.

And that's exactly what we would get with a token system. You wouldn't get one shoulder token per dungeon run, instead you get one token per run and need, say, 20 to buy a shoulder. That way you don't get a reward every time you run a dungeon, but every 20th time. So the same chance as now, only you know that you WILL get your reward in the end. Currently you can get unlucky and it takes way more longer than average for you to get the right shoulder in the right weight, and that EACH TIME a new set is added. If that's not frustrating now and goes completely against the intended effect...

To take your example, that's not the case with mats. You get mats every time you collect a node, and you know that eventually you will have enough to craft a set of your choice. So on the contrary, mats already work with a token system. If they'd work like Undaunted chests you'd get a random crafted set piece out of a thousand pieces with every node and have a chance to get your desired piece in about the same time as now, only that it's RNG based then.

@Cruxanero When referring to the mats, I was meaning receiving gold mats.

Taleof2Cities

Leave As Is, Continue Adding More Sets

With the amount of keys players are hoarding leave as is is the correct answer.

roarr

Yes, The Undaunted Chests Need Changes

I personally dont give a damn about pve. Doing dungeons is a pain (for me its just borring) and i hate that i am obliged to run them in order to make my pvp builds.

Glirion's chest has 12 sets x 3 weight x 8(?) Traits = 288 possibilities. I have 1/288 chance to get desired item. It really kills me. Not being able to make my builds is what drives me off.

Gythral

Yes, The Undaunted Chests Need Changes

Tokens
or remove all the junk no-one uses,
tokens make the most sense, but ZOS is in love with gambling, as it's the way to keep rats on the treadmill according to the current gaming meta

zaria

karekiz wrote: »

Keys for random with random trait. Tokens from completing the dungeon on hard mode. This allows you to buy the direct shoulder you want.

COA1 farm run

Korprok

Yes, The Undaunted Chests Need Changes

something has to happen, I really don't like rng and ESO is mostly just that- time for the undaunted guild to accept some sort of token for these sets.

Nightfall12

Why not just make it so ALL monster peices helmets and shoulders use a the same style trait lets call it TOKEN, and when you deconstruct these items (that you continue to get as you do now,) you have a chance at getting those TOKENS....just like you have a chance at any style mat when you decon. Then sort of like there are vaults at the IC dungeons, just put an undaunted vender at the start of every dungeon that sells all items/or just the shoulders for just that dungeon in every trait and every weight, for an agreeable number of Tokens.....

Lucious90

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

With the amount of keys players are hoarding leave as is is the correct answer.

Hoarding is a solution to the problem that players have come up with.... And worked really well but there comes a point to where that mitigates only so much....

I still agree for the most part a token system is needed

Vapirko

Yes, The Undaunted Chests Need Changes

Lucious90 wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

With the amount of keys players are hoarding leave as is is the correct answer.

Hoarding is a solution to the problem that players have come up with.... And worked really well but there comes a point to where that mitigates only so much....

I still agree for the most part a token system is needed

I’m also trying to think about new players coming in, not just those of us who have most or all of what we need for 5+ toons.

Lucious90

Vapirko wrote: »

Lucious90 wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

With the amount of keys players are hoarding leave as is is the correct answer.

Hoarding is a solution to the problem that players have come up with.... And worked really well but there comes a point to where that mitigates only so much....

I still agree for the most part a token system is needed

I’m also trying to think about new players coming in, not just those of us who have most or all of what we need for 5+ toons.

I I am far from that lol I refuse to do Undaunted because of the pointless RNG...

I agree though there needs to be something a bit more new player friendly while still giving the vets something to work towards still