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Moving on from the time based score evaluation to combat based scoring
Ranger209
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Currently in Cyrodiil the scoring system being used just does not work. When population is capped by all 3 alliances, points of interest can flip up to 4 or 5 times in a 1 hour eval rendering the efforts of the majority of the people fighting there nul and void in regards to the score. On the other hand, when population is low, points of interest may not flip for hours on end magnifying the efforts of those individuals on the scoreboard many times over. Perhaps if the servers were full 24/7 this 1 hour evaluation would be a thing of beauty. The reality of it, however, is that the majority of the time there are too few people in Cyrodiil to make it viable.
Different attempts by various people have been offered up to "adjust" the score based on population. In a nutshell they would factor down the score during less populated times. This has been met by some resistance from people who play during non-peak hours, with those people thinking that they would be penalized by a system like this. While I do not agree that it would penalize them I have decided to look at another approach. One that is not time driven but rather combat driven. In the scoring system that will be presented below the points awarded toward the cumulative score are based off of attacking/defending points of interest, number of forces per side in the fight, and awarding points based on those numbers favoring the underdog and putting an emphasis on defending keeps over attacking them. This is not the end all be all of how the scoring system should work, but rather a different vantage point or lens to look at it with, and a specific way that it could work.
The general idea is that points toward the score should be awarded when there is actual conflict at points of interest, and that more points should be awarded for winning battles where from a numbers standpoint the odds are against you, and less points awarded when the odds are in your favor. PvDoor and PvE RSS taking should be least of all. 80 man zergs will also earn less points than more moderate numbers geared toward a perceived ideal fight size at each point of interest type. Points being awarded for how long an alliance holds onto territory when no one is fighting over it should be a thing of the past.
Implementation would be as follows:
1. Get rid of the timer. Score will be calculated in real time when POI are conquered or defended.
2. Gates to the scroll temples can only be opened under the following conditions:
-A. Same conditions as currently required.
-B. Additional requirement that the defending faction has at least 80% the population of the attacking faction.
--i. This is not looked at by the population bar system.
--ii. This is a straight up head count that we the public don't need to know.
-C. Scrolls will be used as scoring modifiers and should not be attainable from gated keeps during times of population imbalance.
-D. Retaking your own scrolls can happen any time.
3. Scoring for successful capture and defense of keeps, outposts, towns, and resources.
-A. Scoring will be determined by the number of participants on the Combat Credit List of the Point of Interest being fought over.
--i. Credit List Variables: CL1, CL2, CL3 are used in determining raw score. VCL and DCL are used to modify raw score based on number of participants engaged and who won.
---a. CL1 = number of participants for faction with highest number of participants on combat list.
---b. CL2 = number of participants for faction with second highest numbers of participants on combat list.
---c. CL3 = number of participants for faction with lowest number of participants on combat list.
---d. VCL = the number of participants on the Victor's Combat List.
----1. If POI is flipped VCL = number of participants on new owners combat list.
----2. If POI is successfully defended VCL = number of participants on defenders combat list.
---e. DCL = the number of participants on the Defeated Combat List + 1.
----1. If POI is flipped DCL = number of participants on previous owners combat list + 1.
----2. If POI is succesfully defended DCL = number of participants on other 2 factions combat list + 1.
-B. Scoring calculation would be as follows and applied at the offensive or defensive tick.
--i. CPA=RS * (1/(VCL/DCL)) * SM where:
--ii. CPA is Campaign Points Awarded - These points replace the points awarded at the 60 minute evaluation.
--iii. RS = Raw Score for the point of interest. It is calculated as follows:
---a. Points of interest are weighed against ideal fight size for a given point of interest type and have min/max range values that can be used.
-POI TYPE MIN VALUE MAX VALUE
---KEEP 4 40
---HOLD 3 30
---TOWN 2 20
----RSS 1 10
----1. MIN/MAX values are used to determine Raw Score.
----2. MIN/MAX values are not used to determine Campaign Points Awarded.
---b. RS = MAXv - |MAXv-CL2| absolute value.
---c. SM = Scroll Modifier
----1. If faction being awarded points toward score has 2 or less scrolls SM = 1
----2. Each additional scroll controlled adds 0.25 to SM = 1.25 with 3, 1.5 with 4, 1.75 with 5, and SM = 2 with all 6 scrolls under 1 factions control for that faction.
We will now look at how the score will be tabulated in some various scenarios from pvdoor to zerg vs. zerg, and 3 way fights and things in between. We will look exclusively at keep fights. In other scenarios the score would scale down according to min max values above for the POI type. We will not use a scroll modifier in the examples below, but it would be multiplied through the CPA results below to create competition over the scrolls.
1. PvDoor a keep, fight size 20 vs. 0--CL1=20, CL2=0, CL3=0--VCL=20, DCL=1--RS = 40 - |40-0| = 0---CPA = 0*(1/(20/1)) = 0, CPA=0
2. Keep fight 20 vs 12 with 20 winning--CL1=20, CL2=12, CL3=0--VCL=20, DCL=13--RS = 40 - |40-12| = 12 --CPA = 12*(1/(20/13)) = 7.8, CPA=8
3. Keep fight 20 vs 12 with 12 winning--CL1=20, CL2=12, CL3=0--VCL=12, DCL=21--RS = 40 - |40-20| = 20---CPA = 20*(1/(12/21)) = 35, CPA=35
4. Keep fight 40 vs 40---CL1=40, CL2=40, CL3=0--VCL=40, DCL=41--RS = 40 - |40-40| = 40---CPA = 40*(1/(40/41)) = 41, CPA=41
5. Keep fight 60 vs 40 with 60 winning--CL1=60, CL2=40, CL3=0--VCL=60, DCL=41---RS = 40 - |40-40| = 40----CPA = 40*(1/(60/41)) = 27.3, CPA=27
6. Keep fight 60 vs 40 with 40 winning--CL1=60, CL2=40, CL3=0--VCL=40, DCL=61---RS = 40 - |40-40| = 40----CPA = 40*(1/(40/61)) = 61, CPA=61
7. Keep fight 60 vs 60---CL1=60, CL2=60, CL3=0--VCL=60, DCL=61---RS = 40 - |40-60| = 20----CPA = 20*(1/(60/61)) = 20.3, CPA = 20
8. Keep fight 80 vs 60 with 80 winning--CL1=80, CL2=60, CL3=0---VCL=80, DCL=61---RS = 40 - |40-60| = 20----CPA = 20*(1/(80/61)) = 15.25, CPA=15
9. Keep fight 80 vs 60 with 60 winning--CL1=80, CL2=60, CL3=0---VCL=60, DCL=81---RS = 40 - |40-60| = 20----CPA = 20*(1/(60/81)) = 27, CPA=27
10. Keep fight 80 vs 80--CL1=80, CL2=80, CL3=0---VCL=80, DCL=81---RS = 40 - |40-80| = 0---CPA = 0*(1/(80/81)) = 0, CPA=0
Below will illustrate different 3 way scenarios and the scoring achieved for keep fights. Some of the examples while highly unlikely are used to merely illustrate.
1. 10 vs 20 vs 30 with 30 defending and winning CL1=30, CL2=20, CL3=10--VCL=30, DCL=31--RS = 40 - |40-20| = 20--CPA = 20*(1/(30/31)) = 20.7, CPA=21
2. 10 vs 20 vs 30 with 30 defending and 20 winning CL1=30, CL2=20, CL3=10--VCL=20, DCL=31--RS = 40 - |40-20| = 20--CPA = 20*(1/(20/31)) = 31, CPA=31
4. 10 vs 20 vs 30 with 30 defending and 10 winning CL1=30, CL2=20, CL3=10--VCL=10, DCL=31--RS = 40 - |40-20| = 20--CPA = 20*(1/(10/31)) = 62, CPA=62
5. 30 vs 40 vs 50 with 40 defending and winning CL1=50, CL2=40, CL3=30--VCL=40, DCL=81--RS = 40 - |40-40| = 40--CPA = 40*(1/(40/81)) = 81, CPA=81
6. 30 vs 40 vs 50 with 40 defending and 50 winning CL1=50, CL2=40, CL3=30--VCL=50, DCL=41--RS = 40 - |40-40| = 40--CPA = 40*(1/(50/41)) = 32.8, CPA=33
7. 30 vs 40 vs 50 with 40 defending and 30 winning CL1=50, CL2=40, CL3=30--VCL=30, DCL=41--RS = 40 - |40-40| = 40--CPA = 40*(1/(30/41)) = 54.7, CPA=55
What the examples above show is that points are awarded on somewhat of a bell curve with maximum points being awarded when the fights are closest in size to what has been deemed appropriate for the given type of POI. For keeps the maximum amount of points will occur at around the 40 participant per alliance number. Also more points are awarded if smaller forces beat larger ones, and lesser points are awarded if larger forces beat smaller ones. 3 way fights have the potential to create the largest number of points awarded especially when a smaller force wins, and/or a keep is defended rather than flipped.
This is just one example of how the scoring system could work with variance in the points awarded to the cumulative score base on the number of participants and the outcome of the battle. Each fight would be somewhat unique in the score it awarded base on this criteria.
There are obviously other formulae that could be introduced to yield different results. Some might scoff at an 80 vs 80 fight being worth less than a 40 vs 40, but it depends on everything you are trying to achieve with the scoring system. This particular system tries to optimize faction size at a POI to help spread people out on the map, penalizing forces that are deemed too large or too small for a given POI type.
@ZOS_BrianWheeler just wanted to present a different vision of how the scoring system could work. Again it is not the end all be all, but a different approach for you to look at, wrap your head around, and put your own spin on.
Edited by Ranger209 on July 6, 2018 11:06PM Different attempts by various people have been offered up to "adjust" the score based on population. In a nutshell they would factor down the score during less populated times. This has been met by some resistance from people who play during non-peak hours, with those people thinking that they would be penalized by a system like this. While I do not agree that it would penalize them I have decided to look at another approach. One that is not time driven but rather combat driven. In the scoring system that will be presented below the points awarded toward the cumulative score are based off of attacking/defending points of interest, number of forces per side in the fight, and awarding points based on those numbers favoring the underdog and putting an emphasis on defending keeps over attacking them. This is not the end all be all of how the scoring system should work, but rather a different vantage point or lens to look at it with, and a specific way that it could work.
The general idea is that points toward the score should be awarded when there is actual conflict at points of interest, and that more points should be awarded for winning battles where from a numbers standpoint the odds are against you, and less points awarded when the odds are in your favor. PvDoor and PvE RSS taking should be least of all. 80 man zergs will also earn less points than more moderate numbers geared toward a perceived ideal fight size at each point of interest type. Points being awarded for how long an alliance holds onto territory when no one is fighting over it should be a thing of the past.
Implementation would be as follows:
1. Get rid of the timer. Score will be calculated in real time when POI are conquered or defended.
2. Gates to the scroll temples can only be opened under the following conditions:
-A. Same conditions as currently required.
-B. Additional requirement that the defending faction has at least 80% the population of the attacking faction.
--i. This is not looked at by the population bar system.
--ii. This is a straight up head count that we the public don't need to know.
-C. Scrolls will be used as scoring modifiers and should not be attainable from gated keeps during times of population imbalance.
-D. Retaking your own scrolls can happen any time.
3. Scoring for successful capture and defense of keeps, outposts, towns, and resources.
-A. Scoring will be determined by the number of participants on the Combat Credit List of the Point of Interest being fought over.
--i. Credit List Variables: CL1, CL2, CL3 are used in determining raw score. VCL and DCL are used to modify raw score based on number of participants engaged and who won.
---a. CL1 = number of participants for faction with highest number of participants on combat list.
---b. CL2 = number of participants for faction with second highest numbers of participants on combat list.
---c. CL3 = number of participants for faction with lowest number of participants on combat list.
---d. VCL = the number of participants on the Victor's Combat List.
----1. If POI is flipped VCL = number of participants on new owners combat list.
----2. If POI is successfully defended VCL = number of participants on defenders combat list.
---e. DCL = the number of participants on the Defeated Combat List + 1.
----1. If POI is flipped DCL = number of participants on previous owners combat list + 1.
----2. If POI is succesfully defended DCL = number of participants on other 2 factions combat list + 1.
-B. Scoring calculation would be as follows and applied at the offensive or defensive tick.
--i. CPA=RS * (1/(VCL/DCL)) * SM where:
--ii. CPA is Campaign Points Awarded - These points replace the points awarded at the 60 minute evaluation.
--iii. RS = Raw Score for the point of interest. It is calculated as follows:
---a. Points of interest are weighed against ideal fight size for a given point of interest type and have min/max range values that can be used.
-POI TYPE MIN VALUE MAX VALUE
---KEEP 4 40
---HOLD 3 30
---TOWN 2 20
----RSS 1 10
----1. MIN/MAX values are used to determine Raw Score.
----2. MIN/MAX values are not used to determine Campaign Points Awarded.
---b. RS = MAXv - |MAXv-CL2| absolute value.
---c. SM = Scroll Modifier
----1. If faction being awarded points toward score has 2 or less scrolls SM = 1
----2. Each additional scroll controlled adds 0.25 to SM = 1.25 with 3, 1.5 with 4, 1.75 with 5, and SM = 2 with all 6 scrolls under 1 factions control for that faction.
We will now look at how the score will be tabulated in some various scenarios from pvdoor to zerg vs. zerg, and 3 way fights and things in between. We will look exclusively at keep fights. In other scenarios the score would scale down according to min max values above for the POI type. We will not use a scroll modifier in the examples below, but it would be multiplied through the CPA results below to create competition over the scrolls.
1. PvDoor a keep, fight size 20 vs. 0--CL1=20, CL2=0, CL3=0--VCL=20, DCL=1--RS = 40 - |40-0| = 0---CPA = 0*(1/(20/1)) = 0, CPA=0
2. Keep fight 20 vs 12 with 20 winning--CL1=20, CL2=12, CL3=0--VCL=20, DCL=13--RS = 40 - |40-12| = 12 --CPA = 12*(1/(20/13)) = 7.8, CPA=8
3. Keep fight 20 vs 12 with 12 winning--CL1=20, CL2=12, CL3=0--VCL=12, DCL=21--RS = 40 - |40-20| = 20---CPA = 20*(1/(12/21)) = 35, CPA=35
4. Keep fight 40 vs 40---CL1=40, CL2=40, CL3=0--VCL=40, DCL=41--RS = 40 - |40-40| = 40---CPA = 40*(1/(40/41)) = 41, CPA=41
5. Keep fight 60 vs 40 with 60 winning--CL1=60, CL2=40, CL3=0--VCL=60, DCL=41---RS = 40 - |40-40| = 40----CPA = 40*(1/(60/41)) = 27.3, CPA=27
6. Keep fight 60 vs 40 with 40 winning--CL1=60, CL2=40, CL3=0--VCL=40, DCL=61---RS = 40 - |40-40| = 40----CPA = 40*(1/(40/61)) = 61, CPA=61
7. Keep fight 60 vs 60---CL1=60, CL2=60, CL3=0--VCL=60, DCL=61---RS = 40 - |40-60| = 20----CPA = 20*(1/(60/61)) = 20.3, CPA = 20
8. Keep fight 80 vs 60 with 80 winning--CL1=80, CL2=60, CL3=0---VCL=80, DCL=61---RS = 40 - |40-60| = 20----CPA = 20*(1/(80/61)) = 15.25, CPA=15
9. Keep fight 80 vs 60 with 60 winning--CL1=80, CL2=60, CL3=0---VCL=60, DCL=81---RS = 40 - |40-60| = 20----CPA = 20*(1/(60/81)) = 27, CPA=27
10. Keep fight 80 vs 80--CL1=80, CL2=80, CL3=0---VCL=80, DCL=81---RS = 40 - |40-80| = 0---CPA = 0*(1/(80/81)) = 0, CPA=0
Below will illustrate different 3 way scenarios and the scoring achieved for keep fights. Some of the examples while highly unlikely are used to merely illustrate.
1. 10 vs 20 vs 30 with 30 defending and winning CL1=30, CL2=20, CL3=10--VCL=30, DCL=31--RS = 40 - |40-20| = 20--CPA = 20*(1/(30/31)) = 20.7, CPA=21
2. 10 vs 20 vs 30 with 30 defending and 20 winning CL1=30, CL2=20, CL3=10--VCL=20, DCL=31--RS = 40 - |40-20| = 20--CPA = 20*(1/(20/31)) = 31, CPA=31
4. 10 vs 20 vs 30 with 30 defending and 10 winning CL1=30, CL2=20, CL3=10--VCL=10, DCL=31--RS = 40 - |40-20| = 20--CPA = 20*(1/(10/31)) = 62, CPA=62
5. 30 vs 40 vs 50 with 40 defending and winning CL1=50, CL2=40, CL3=30--VCL=40, DCL=81--RS = 40 - |40-40| = 40--CPA = 40*(1/(40/81)) = 81, CPA=81
6. 30 vs 40 vs 50 with 40 defending and 50 winning CL1=50, CL2=40, CL3=30--VCL=50, DCL=41--RS = 40 - |40-40| = 40--CPA = 40*(1/(50/41)) = 32.8, CPA=33
7. 30 vs 40 vs 50 with 40 defending and 30 winning CL1=50, CL2=40, CL3=30--VCL=30, DCL=41--RS = 40 - |40-40| = 40--CPA = 40*(1/(30/41)) = 54.7, CPA=55
What the examples above show is that points are awarded on somewhat of a bell curve with maximum points being awarded when the fights are closest in size to what has been deemed appropriate for the given type of POI. For keeps the maximum amount of points will occur at around the 40 participant per alliance number. Also more points are awarded if smaller forces beat larger ones, and lesser points are awarded if larger forces beat smaller ones. 3 way fights have the potential to create the largest number of points awarded especially when a smaller force wins, and/or a keep is defended rather than flipped.
This is just one example of how the scoring system could work with variance in the points awarded to the cumulative score base on the number of participants and the outcome of the battle. Each fight would be somewhat unique in the score it awarded base on this criteria.
There are obviously other formulae that could be introduced to yield different results. Some might scoff at an 80 vs 80 fight being worth less than a 40 vs 40, but it depends on everything you are trying to achieve with the scoring system. This particular system tries to optimize faction size at a POI to help spread people out on the map, penalizing forces that are deemed too large or too small for a given POI type.
@ZOS_BrianWheeler just wanted to present a different vision of how the scoring system could work. Again it is not the end all be all, but a different approach for you to look at, wrap your head around, and put your own spin on.
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