How to counter bleed builds?

SnowTheMadDog

Hey Boys,

Appollÿon here, Mag DK mostly playing BG.

I'm here coz i'de like some advice. I played MDK a long time and usually do pretty good in Cyro and BG. I'm not realy affraid of any opponent except...Bleed builds, wich isn't realy a class.

I fought a stamsorcs usin bleed (master axe?) sload immopots and swift glyph (i guess, seeing how quick he was moving around me, like some kind of crazy Flash) . The dude was constantly applying bleed/sload . I couldn't outheal him, and maybe had a small window to petrify and burst him (wich didn't always killed him). Plus, he was freakin hard to aim.

I'd like your advices, fellow MagDK or any other players. What's ur strat, answer to bleed builds? Except sloting purge or playing Magtemplar (wich i do a lot more coz of that meta..)

Thanks, and cya on the BG

Trinotops

just purge it lmao

Myux

stacking dots is the current meta, the only thing you can really do to stop it is to avoid them like the plague and dont allow them to even place the dots on you. with sloads thats essentially impossible because its done at any range, but with bleeds you can do your best to kite them. but most of the time thats not gonna work.
if it wasnt for sloads, though, chances are you are able to outheal the bleeds if you arent like 60% defiled, but the main issue is when they lay pressure into you while you have all those bleed stacks. do your best to make that not happen. save your CCs wisely unless youre trying to pressure their stam, go offensive when theyre refreshing their bleeds, and get away or mitigate however you can when theyre all up and the enemy is trying to lay into you. adjust all your offensive and defensive timing for them and their rotation.

Tryxus

SnowTheMadDog wrote: »

What's ur strat, answer to bleed builds? Except sloting purge or playing Magtemplar (wich i do a lot more coz of that meta..)

Wear the Wyrd Tree set?

Thogard

Dot and Sload then up first.

Ragnaroek93

Be glad that he didn't use Defile on top of bleedstack and Sloads. You haven't faced the true cancer yet.

CatchMeTrolling

Purge and out heal it is the only solution. Why I have rally , vigor, lingering pots, ritual , blood craze, argonian.

Stack healing , can’t kill anyone that out heals your damage. Harder to do on certain classes and builds.

raasdal

SnowTheMadDog wrote: »

Hey Boys,

Appollÿon here, Mag DK mostly playing BG.

I'm here coz i'de like some advice. I played MDK a long time and usually do pretty good in Cyro and BG. I'm not realy affraid of any opponent except...Bleed builds, wich isn't realy a class.

I fought a stamsorcs usin bleed (master axe?) sload immopots and swift glyph (i guess, seeing how quick he was moving around me, like some kind of crazy Flash) . The dude was constantly applying bleed/sload . I couldn't outheal him, and maybe had a small window to petrify and burst him (wich didn't always killed him). Plus, he was freakin hard to aim.

I'd like your advices, fellow MagDK or any other players. What's ur strat, answer to bleed builds? Except sloting purge or playing Magtemplar (wich i do a lot more coz of that meta..)

Thanks, and cya on the BG

There are two counters to Bleeds and DoTs in general;

Outheal or Outdamage. So basically, either be able to eat the damage in a different way than just mitigating (resistance, block etc.) OR kill him first.

So in your case, go full offensive and put him on his back, so he can't apply pressure.

Zelos

Impreg counters bleeds pretty well

Amdar_Godkiller

thick-skinned and hardy CP, crit resitance, lingering pots, and lots of hots.

Chilly-McFreeze

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

thick-skinned and hardy CP, crit resitance, lingering pots, and lots of hots.

Since he's specifically mentioned Battlegrounds a couple of times, the first two are no choice. However, I truely wonder where the times have gone that people said "burst and nothing else" in pvp. Must be sloads and overtuned defiles, I guess. Would be a shame if Zeni decided to nerf dots/bleeds in general just to counter the durok/sloads/master weapons combo, which works like a charm but looses power fast if you're missing out on e.g. master weapons. But we all know how that will end.

However, OP, since bleeds ignore mitigation you're better of investing elsewhere than pure armor resistance to counter bleeds specifically, e.g. incorporating sources of maim, protection, mending, vitality, higher health regen and impen, Zelos is right about that. Sadly urges are not easy to come by, so at least I wouldn't bother too much about them. But then again, too low base resistance leave you vulnerable to anything else. Theoretically the "counter" to res ignoring mechanics is using res ignoring mechanics as well, you could add wards to that but they crumble under pressure.

Or, in tl;dr: do the same those shieldbreaker+sload users shout around at magsorcs: just heal through it.

ak_pvp

Its kind of impossible at the moment, its exceptionately easy to put a group of dots on them and just watch them melt. In noCP a bleed build can dish out 4k dps easily. That is stuff that can't really be healed from, then get a defile slapped on you and its a problem...

The best way I can think is stack hots (works against sloads too, so not a just bleeds problem) as a MagDK, use choking to limit the damage and keep them stuck. Then GTFO. Seriously, impossible to heal through any bleed build worth their ***. They will incap, reducing your heal to potato level, slap 4k+ of bleeds and sloads on you and then spammable you to death.

Just leave.

Datolite

ak_pvp wrote: »

Its kind of impossible at the moment, its exceptionately easy to put a group of dots on them and just watch them melt. In noCP a bleed build can dish out 4k dps easily. That is stuff that can't really be healed from, then get a defile slapped on you and its a problem...

The best way I can think is stack hots (works against sloads too, so not a just bleeds problem) as a MagDK, use choking to limit the damage and keep them stuck. Then GTFO. Seriously, impossible to heal through any bleed build worth their ***. They will incap, reducing your heal to potato level, slap 4k+ of bleeds and sloads on you and then spammable you to death.

Just leave.

This is where a magplar has an advantage. Extended Ritual has been my rock throughout this bleed/sload sh*tshow.

Some alternatives for mag classes are Purge and the Wyrd Tree set, as well as hots. For stam... build for damage and try to two-shot them lol. Can't think of a better counter atm.

Waffennacht

Be more offensive

Do not try and counter, you'll just die.

Best thing is to get the initiative and kill them.

Purging etc won't work, being defensive won't work

brandonv516

I slot Cauterize, Green Dragon Blood, Shattering Rocks, Burning Embers, Whip. Plenty of heals! Also have the HoT morph of barrier on back bar but don't use as much.

WeylandLabs

ESO in 2020: How do you counter machine guns lol

IZZEFlameLash

Just die and log off. Bleed debuff won't affect you that way.

NBrookus

Truth is, you probably aren't. Even if you aren't defiled you will end up in full heal mode while they execute you. Same for running purge, they will just instantly reapply it for much less cost than purging.

The counter is kill them first. Then the task is catching a stamsorc; the good ones you usually can't.

Knootewoot

For this i wear the Wyrd tree set. I only have it backbar currently so i can decide when to use the remoe 5 negative effect when i want. But i think i can go front/back because it is constatly dots and *** so i can have a cleanse every 15 secs.

AceAegis

The best way to counter bleeds/ sloads is to run good heals: HoTs and in this particular meta health regen is very good. Since you're a mdk, go with clockwork citrus filet plus the steed mundus plus a set that gives good regen like willows path or permafrost and of course troll king. If you don't want to go that path you can try stacking damage mitigation sets like pirate skeleton and reactive, but i don't think these sets are viable on a mdk.

Ender1310

This must be more of a bg thing. In cyrodil range is pretty much where it's at. Not saying I haven't been ganked by really good melee toons, but even if they are a powerful bleed build there is no way they will be able to pressure me in open battle. Not without all that damage coming in from the front line. So to me this is how you counter it the fact that they are melee counters it.
But then again I have both perspectives pretty equally (ranged and melee) I can clearly see where melee has it hard in open world pvp (sieges and such)

ezeepeezee

I know you're asking about countering bleeds, but I think it's actually equally critical that you counter the player's movement. If you're having a hard time targeting them, you are losing precious time where you should be pressuring them and not just flailing to target them.

So try this: When someone circle-strafes you, start moving in the same lateral direction as them but backward, away from them.. If you're looking at it from top-down, it should look like they running a clockwise circle, and you running a counter-clockwise circle away from them. Except you don't complete the circle, you elongate it like a hyperbolic line.

And you keep doing this. CC them as they get in range of you, hit them, and continue this dance. It's difficult and takes practice, but it's the only way to make targeting easier. If you move in that way, you will be able to line them up more easily - they will have to stop their circling and move directly toward you again to close the distance.

Ragnarock41

To fight the cheese one must embrace the cheese.

So reroll to a stamDk(or stam anything for that matter, sorc works the best for bleed builds), get your master Dw and sloads. Then you're good to go.

CatchMeTrolling

ezeepeezee wrote: »

I know you're asking about countering bleeds, but I think it's actually equally critical that you counter the player's movement. If you're having a hard time targeting them, you are losing precious time where you should be pressuring them and not just flailing to target them.

So try this: When someone circle-strafes you, start moving in the same lateral direction as them but backward, away from them.. If you're looking at it from top-down, it should look like they running a clockwise circle, and you running a counter-clockwise circle away from them. Except you don't complete the circle, you elongate it like a hyperbolic line.

And you keep doing this. CC them as they get in range of you, hit them, and continue this dance. It's difficult and takes practice, but it's the only way to make targeting easier. If you move in that way, you will be able to line them up more easily - they will have to stop their circling and move directly toward you again to close the distance.

If they’re using speed pots staying on top of him and circling becomes easy.

Asardes

I run Mutagen specifically to counter Soad and bleeds. Since I always have that ticking I also run Maelstrom resto back bar. On front bar I have about 37.5% crit on no-CP and 49.5% on CP so that 800 magicka return comes on average every 8-12s on average if ticking just on myself (and much better if ticking on all 4 team mates) which is equal to 150-200 on top of my 1.35K (no-CP) / 1.45K (CP) base recovery. Having good magicka sustain also allows me to have Healing Ward up most of the time which although it doesn't shield bleeds it prevents me from getting low on health.

Last but not least I run Light's Champion as primary ultimate and also acts as a damage burst since my crit is relatively high. I run Elemental Drain and 5p LA so I have ~10K penetration. Since Burning Embers and Flame Lash heal in relation to damage done to target, which is also affected by Engulfing Flames (+10% damage) that means the heals I get are quite strong. I get Major Sorcery from Degeneration and LA weave will add another heal. That whip really hurts with BSW and berserker procced for ~4.3K spell damage, 34K magicka (no-CP) / 39K (CP) and if it crits with Major Force up and almost all spell resistance stripped they're pretty much toast.

In short I outheal and burst them. The only problems I have are sorcs that CC you with Rune Prison while closer ones damage you. Break free is really buggy from that and NB fear. Even when you have sufficient stamina it sometimes doesn't work, you consume it, the char twitches a bit but doesn't escape; same glitch with NB Mass Hysteria. CC break from Flame Reach or even Crystal Blast seems to work fine though.

Irylia

Let me get the boy @dwemer_paleologist in here. He knows how to counter it.

SilverWF

- How to counter bleed builds?
- Cleanse

CatchMeTrolling

SilverWF wrote: »

- How to counter bleed builds?
- Cleanse

Lol

Wreuntzylla

Tryxus wrote: »

SnowTheMadDog wrote: »

What's ur strat, answer to bleed builds? Except sloting purge or playing Magtemplar (wich i do a lot more coz of that meta..)

Wear the Wyrd Tree set?

In the top 5 for underrated sets.

Drakkdjinn

craft the stronger dot build, sloads, & profit

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/421134/math-sloads-vs-masters-dual-wield-a-perspective-on-balance#latest