Please read this ZOS :(

Alfie2072

Dear ZOS, @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Wrobel
myself and probably every other PVP'er in this game is begging you right now, literally begging you,
please lord can you guys fix the performance issues in cyrodiil, stop making proc sets, and make the alliance war cap back to 500v500v500 (fix perfromance, then make it 500 cap in cyrodiil
please please please please, cyrodiil most of the time feels dead unless you are at the same keeps with the same zergs, back in the day there was mid to decently large fights in multiple spots around the map, the whole map was filled with joy and pvp, sadly that has gone
this is what we want, no more proc sets, and fix cyrodiil performance so we can have 500 player cap in cyrodiil again

Durham

Alfie2072 wrote: »

Dear ZOS, @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Wrobel
myself and probably every other PVP'er in this game is begging you right now, literally begging you,
please lord can you guys fix the performance issues in cyrodiil, stop making proc sets, and make the alliance war cap back to 500v500v500 (fix perfromance, then make it 500 cap in cyrodiil
please please please please, cyrodiil most of the time feels dead unless you are at the same keeps with the same zergs, back in the day there was mid to decently large fights in multiple spots around the map, the whole map was filled with joy and pvp, sadly that has gone
this is what we want, no more proc sets, and fix cyrodiil performance so we can have 500 player cap in cyrodiil again

Its a mechanic issue Alfie ... I believe they would have to make drastic changes to the way abilites work especially healing ..Its does not take much to start the lag.. A large battle group size ball group will start the lag ... They have tried to spread out the groups but in the end people are going to ball up because of the way healing AOE works.. If you change healing and other AOE abilies this would affect PVE and they would not want to touch that with a 10 foot pole!

Also 3/4 of the sets proc something man .... It's shield/resource procs/Dot procs/ Instant damage procs/ Protection procs/ Evad procs/ there is a proc for everything lol ....

SkysOutThizeOut

@Durham they only have 1 employee maintaining and working on cyro...

Biro123

SkysOutThizeOut wrote: »

@Durham they only have 1 employee maintaining and working on cyro...

And he spends all afternoon at the pub drowning his sorrows.

lazerlaz

Do not speak for all of us about no proc sets. Get out of my sight. You do realize almost every good set is a proc set right? Riposte, Ravager, truth, legion, lich, etc etc. You want everyone to run just Max stat sets like hundings? Get out of here kid.

Alfie2072

lazerlaz wrote: »

Do not speak for all of us about no proc sets. Get out of my sight. You do realize almost every good set is a proc set right? Riposte, Ravager, truth, legion, lich, etc etc. You want everyone to run just Max stat sets like hundings? Get out of here kid.

settle down "kid", im quite sure everyone else understood that by "proc sets" we are talking about the sets that proc damage that ZOS keeps bringing into the game

oXI_Viper_IXo

lazerlaz wrote: »

You do realize almost every good set is a proc set right?

That's not even close to being true. Also, there is no need to be so hostile.

Stratforge

lazerlaz wrote: »

Do not speak for all of us about no proc sets. Get out of my sight. You do realize almost every good set is a proc set right? Riposte, Ravager, truth, legion, lich, etc etc. You want everyone to run just Max stat sets like hundings? Get out of here kid.

It's pretty disingenuous to respond to someone talking about no proc sets with "but muh lich/ravager/truth". Like you are either intentionally misinterpreting what he's saying or you're dumb as rocks. When people complain about proc sets they are complaining about stuff like Sloads/Viper/Calu/Skoria/Selene/VD etc.

Whether those sets have any effect on performance is a separate questions and I'd guess they don't effect it too much. Still shut up though.

zyk

Stratforge wrote: »

Whether those sets have any effect on performance is a separate questions and I'd guess they don't effect it too much. Still shut up though.

Around the time of the AvA performance test of 2017, Brian Wheeler specifically wrote that all proc sets contribute to server performance issues by adding RNG calcs/evaluations to their relevant triggers -- whether they be heals, attacks, etc.. And if those procs trigger an AE or multiple AEs -- as is the case with VD -- that's even more processing.

Something to consider is that all servers of all types have performance limitations that can be exposed by poorly designed apps. In the case of ESO, the problem isn't necessarily a technical issue with the server, but rather ZOS has designed gameplay -- and continues to add more -- that surpasses the limitations of the server.

I believe ZOS has probably improved server performance greatly since launch. The problem is that the gains are erased by game design that does not consider AvA. I would bet ZOS performance testing/profiling is entirely based on 12 player instances.

Stratforge

zyk wrote: »

Stratforge wrote: »

Whether those sets have any effect on performance is a separate questions and I'd guess they don't effect it too much. Still shut up though.

Around the time of the AvA performance test of 2017, Brian Wheeler specifically wrote that all proc sets contribute to server performance issues by adding RNG calcs/evaluations to their relevant triggers -- whether they be heals, attacks, etc.. And if those procs trigger an AE or multiple AEs -- as is the case with VD -- that's even more processing.

I hear you and I'm not a programmer so I have no framework for evaluating whether this explanation is right or not. My layperson view is that any action in this game requires a large amount of calculations to occur at once, for instance a person using impulse on a group of people. Many different calculations are invoked by that one skill. I don't understand why a proc set would be vastly different from that. I really don't know much about how computers work but I feel like doing lots of calculations per second is their raison d'etre.

Ashdroid

Biro123 wrote: »

SkysOutThizeOut wrote: »

@Durham they only have 1 employee maintaining and working on cyro...

And he spends all afternoon at the pub drowning his sorrows.

I would too...

Morgul667

Pretty please Zo$

Fix cyrodill

Nightfall12

Im not certain that its just a cyro issue, but rather too many players in one area altogether....
The other day the Gryfons world boss in Summerset a group of 4 of us start the fight and are doing great, when we get the boss down to about 50% suddenly another group of players showed up and with them massive spikes in lag. The battle became choppy and the red telegraphs were out of sync with the incoming attacks. So what was a smooth and great fight went to unplayable with a second team....


....of course I could throw this back to the PvP argument that other group that showed looked like an EP ball group....

j/k

zyk

Stratforge wrote: »

I hear you and I'm not a programmer so I have no framework for evaluating whether this explanation is right or not. My layperson view is that any action in this game requires a large amount of calculations to occur at once, for instance a person using impulse on a group of people. Many different calculations are invoked by that one skill. I don't understand why a proc set would be vastly different from that. I really don't know much about how computers work but I feel like doing lots of calculations per second is their raison d'etre.

That doesn't mean servers can process an infinite number of calculations. There are different types of finite limits. When they are reached, everyone in the area -- and on some cases everyone on the server -- experiences server processing lag.

That one player using impulse on a group of players does indeed involve many calculations. Now imagine there are 16 players balled together. Each are using an AE of some sort either in the form of damage, healing or utility. They converge on a group of 20-30 other players which triggers even more calculations. Before the huge influx of proc sets in the game, that scenario was already too much for the server to handle.

Proc sets make it worse. To simplify it, they add to the number of calculations per player. The procs from VD in the form of an AE each time an opponent dies, the proc from Earthgore each time someone healed by one of the healers drops below 50% health, the Transmutation buff every time there is a critical heal. They all contribute to what was already an untenable amount of calculations. Each function whether in the form of proc set, ability or passive probably involves a lot more operations than you realize.

The above is a basic example. There are up to dozens of other proc sets present in any given large scale fight.

Anrose

Morgul667 wrote: »

Pretty please Zo$

Fix cyrodill

Don’t you think if it were just that easy to “fix Cyrodiil” that they would have already?

No. It takes a lot of time and money to fix the things in need of fixing. And clearly the amount of money this community throws at them isn’t enough to get the job done.

So you have two options:
1. Give them even more money in hopes they’ll put some of it back into AvA.
2. Stop giving them money at all because they’ll they’re not going to put any of it back into AvA.

Alfie2072

Anrose wrote: »

Morgul667 wrote: »

Pretty please Zo$

Fix cyrodill

Don’t you think if it were just that easy to “fix Cyrodiil” that they would have already?

No. It takes a lot of time and money to fix the things in need of fixing. And clearly the amount of money this community throws at them isn’t enough to get the job done.

So you have two options:
1. Give them even more money in hopes they’ll put some of it back into AvA.
2. Stop giving them money at all because they’ll they’re not going to put any of it back into AvA.

im assuming you have no idea how much money ZOS really makes...
its alot, btw

zyk

Anrose wrote: »

Morgul667 wrote: »

Pretty please Zo$

Fix cyrodill

Don’t you think if it were just that easy to “fix Cyrodiil” that they would have already?

No. It takes a lot of time and money to fix the things in need of fixing. And clearly the amount of money this community throws at them isn’t enough to get the job done.

So you have two options:
1. Give them even more money in hopes they’ll put some of it back into AvA.
2. Stop giving them money at all because they’ll they’re not going to put any of it back into AvA.

It doesn't matter if it's easy or not. It is certainly achievable, especially for a publisher with the resources of Zenimax. They have an ethical responsibility to deliver a working version of the product sold to us. We are entitled to complain about their failure to do so as much as we like.

Asgari

500v500v500 will never work again because when it did barely work it was all staff and bow light attack noobs not using any skills yet.

Now with a vast amount of skills and immense amount of buffs and debuffs to track with animations for all its too much for their current servers to handle on top of talking with players from other regions.

Alfie2072

Asgari wrote: »

500v500v500 will never work again because when it did barely work it was all staff and bow light attack noobs not using any skills yet.

Now with a vast amount of skills and immense amount of buffs and debuffs to track with animations for all its too much for their current servers to handle on top of talking with players from other regions.

hence why i am saying to fix the servers to the point where we can go back to 500v500v500, other games have been able to pull it off alot better than what ESO has

Stratforge

zyk wrote: »

Stratforge wrote: »

I hear you and I'm not a programmer so I have no framework for evaluating whether this explanation is right or not. My layperson view is that any action in this game requires a large amount of calculations to occur at once, for instance a person using impulse on a group of people. Many different calculations are invoked by that one skill. I don't understand why a proc set would be vastly different from that. I really don't know much about how computers work but I feel like doing lots of calculations per second is their raison d'etre.

That doesn't mean servers can process an infinite number of calculations. There are different types of finite limits. When they are reached, everyone in the area -- and on some cases everyone on the server -- experiences server processing lag.

That one player using impulse on a group of players does indeed involve many calculations. Now imagine there are 16 players balled together. Each are using an AE of some sort either in the form of damage, healing or utility. They converge on a group of 20-30 other players which triggers even more calculations. Before the huge influx of proc sets in the game, that scenario was already too much for the server to handle.

Proc sets make it worse. To simplify it, they add to the number of calculations per player. The procs from VD in the form of an AE each time an opponent dies, the proc from Earthgore each time someone healed by one of the healers drops below 50% health, the Transmutation buff every time there is a critical heal. They all contribute to what was already an untenable amount of calculations. Each function whether in the form of proc set, ability or passive probably involves a lot more operations than you realize.

The above is a basic example. There are up to dozens of other proc sets present in any given large scale fight.

That seems like a small number of additional calculations. Like, me using Brawler or Healing Springs on a group invokes all of the calculations from my own CP then all of the calculations for every person I hit from their CP. How are things like Earthgore/VD/Transmutation different from those? I'm not saying they aren't, but I'm not sold that they are the cause of the lag.

Durham

Another trash night in Vevic ... Lag so bad (Latency) abilities and bar switches do not go off... Unless you run around spamming light attacks from range or lag friendly spamming abilities total trash game play...

PVP is broke unless you run around in a group of 24+ spamming AOE healing and Damage ..Even then its broke you just do not feel it as much!

Such an embarrassment for a gaming company in 2018... I want to know if you going to support PVP in this game?

Durham

I also think they do not even venture here anymore ... I would post all of this in the main forum...

Im currently so frustrated as a player with this game ATM my whole guild is ....

Anrose

Alfie2072 wrote: »

Anrose wrote: »

Morgul667 wrote: »

Pretty please Zo$

Fix cyrodill

Don’t you think if it were just that easy to “fix Cyrodiil” that they would have already?

No. It takes a lot of time and money to fix the things in need of fixing. And clearly the amount of money this community throws at them isn’t enough to get the job done.

So you have two options:
1. Give them even more money in hopes they’ll put some of it back into AvA.
2. Stop giving them money at all because they’ll they’re not going to put any of it back into AvA.

im assuming you have no idea how much money ZOS really makes...
its alot, btw

I’m assuming you missed my point completely...
You did, btw.

Alfie2072

Anrose wrote: »

Alfie2072 wrote: »

Anrose wrote: »

Morgul667 wrote: »

Pretty please Zo$

Fix cyrodill

Don’t you think if it were just that easy to “fix Cyrodiil” that they would have already?

No. It takes a lot of time and money to fix the things in need of fixing. And clearly the amount of money this community throws at them isn’t enough to get the job done.

So you have two options:
1. Give them even more money in hopes they’ll put some of it back into AvA.
2. Stop giving them money at all because they’ll they’re not going to put any of it back into AvA.

im assuming you have no idea how much money ZOS really makes...
its alot, btw

I’m assuming you missed my point completely...
You did, btw.

i get the feeling you havent been in the game for a long time.. no offense, but ZOS is known for having clear knowledge on what an issue is and avoiding fixing it, for example, lighting patch

Anrose

Alfie2072 wrote: »

Anrose wrote: »

Alfie2072 wrote: »

Anrose wrote: »

Morgul667 wrote: »

Pretty please Zo$

Fix cyrodill

Don’t you think if it were just that easy to “fix Cyrodiil” that they would have already?

No. It takes a lot of time and money to fix the things in need of fixing. And clearly the amount of money this community throws at them isn’t enough to get the job done.

So you have two options:
1. Give them even more money in hopes they’ll put some of it back into AvA.
2. Stop giving them money at all because they’ll they’re not going to put any of it back into AvA.

im assuming you have no idea how much money ZOS really makes...
its alot, btw

I’m assuming you missed my point completely...
You did, btw.

i get the feeling you havent been in the game for a long time.. no offense, but ZOS is known for having clear knowledge on what an issue is and avoiding fixing it, for example, lighting patch

Been playing since closed beta. I know as well as you should that they can’t/won’t do what you’re asking them to do. And that, frankly at this point, it’s not even worth trying to get them to do anything.

Knootewoot

It is over, deal with it. It has grown stale and the skirmish that are found are ruined by both proc sets and resource cost poisons. Add some lag and disconnects and you have yourself a party.

ATomiX96

ZO$ do€$n't car€ about PVP

Gabriyl

At this point, I've stopped caring. Like 3 years ago. I already started Camelot Unchained Beta. Once it's fully developed and implemented I'll uninstall this game and throw the disks in the garbage. Star citizen is another promising game.

This game, in its current, ever downward spiral, is junk and the sun set on it after the lighting patch. Every, incorporated "fix" causes more and more problems. Every month I renew and cancel my membership and one of these days I just won't renew as I transition to a better managed and implemented game with thought and passion behind the development. Thought and passion whilst restraining from catering to every whine from the player community.

Last month, I waited a week+ after my membership expiration and I almost didn't renew and they gave me a free month promotion. Or perhaps it was just coincidence that they offered me a free month last month. Either way, they loose more and more players everyday. Even logging into cyr directly from character creation screen is becoming the norm. Every expansion is the same, with what they consider end game content being repetition. Here's my prophetic vision for the next expansion: a marginally harder dungeon, public and group, relying on mechanics to beat. A pretty mount and pet. A additional crafting something, maybe a new recipe for food or furniture. And 2 new gear sets. It's same thing every expansion. PvP hasn't actually been over hauled and examined since inception. Minor tweaks to siege damage is petty and pedantic. PvP with actual end game content being unpredictable outcomes and the reason why I enjoy player vs player interactions (toxic and hateful whispers aside from other players) beyond "knowing" game mechanics.

Perhaps if we ask the developers for a shiny new PvP mount and pretty-ier armor on our toons, along with other superficial and minute requests they'll finally disregard such boring details, that we as a PvP community have asked for and finally focus on actual programming improvements? You know, because asking them over and over and over and over and over to fix their game has thus far, fallen on deaf ears.

Their lack of respect for the PvP community is so evident now they don't even ask for or provide a response to those of us who report actual bugs and code failure; such as when I screen shotted and sent a bug report to ZoS after we, as DC, could literally jump through the wall of bleakers around the postern door while EP was defending. A blatant code failure on ZoS's end. And attributable to what I can only assume is an error related to lag in the area with code unable to register and keep up with the battle.

Here's to hoping another attached subsidiary company implements vault 76 properly.

This is my attempt at professional feedback with the hopes that this game actually improves and continues to thrive as more and more modern games step up to fill a PvP void that, I, as an online player crave. Regardless of skill level, I just want that player vs player interaction that is meaningful and fun. Stuck in load screens for minutes as a time in the middle of a fight, only to pop back into the game to a death screen while an opposing player whispers "You suck, get gud. You stood there while I killed you, noob" is not fun. Nor productive.

Other players in this game, both seasoned and new, can disregard this as a rant if need be. It isn't. It's an objective observation from a mediocre and marginally skilled player with limited technical understanding. Or they, both PvE and PvP, could encourage me to leave as a "rage quit" in order to feel somehow "better" about their own game. Doing a disservice to themselves as more and more people "rage quit" leaving a barren and unoccupied game with limited clientele destined to die a slow agonizing death of Skyrim diehards, with ZoS high fiving themselves, telling each other how awesome they are. Or we could band together, both players and developers, and solidify this as an actual MMO worthy of a monthly investment. Subscription or otherwise. And future zenimax holdings products and projects that rapidly loose credibility as fully developed and competently managed games attached to the Bethesda and ID brand names beyond zenimax online studios can again be future considerations for entertainment. I will hold the parent company responsible for leadership and management beyond a singular entity such as zenimax online studios. Or stick to developing pretty repetitive single players games such as skyrim and doom that I'll never pay for because they become boring and tiresome quickly.

At this point this is not possible. I am prepping for the worst yet still hope for the best. Like a gullible fool. You can agree or disagree, I don't care because this is my perception and my opinion without other's influence.

Have a great day all, cya somewhere on the battlefield.

Biro123

Just gave up playing again at primetime..Unplayable..

Fix your servers ZOS!

Rohamad_Ali

Give us back the Deer and Torchbugs .

Shadow-Fighter

@Gabriyl

Awesome feedback