Dungeon Role Requirements

ArchMikem

Players choosing group roles they arent fitted for just to get into a group more quickly is still a problem in the vet queue.

DD's queuing as Tanks is the worst offender. It would help solve this issue if roles had conditions that had to be met in order to select, such as Healers need to have a Resto staff equipped, or Tanks need 1hand & Shield or Frost staff.

redspecter23

Players would just equip that resto staff front bar, S&B back bar and queue for all 3, regearing once in the dungeon. No amount of rules added can force players to queue for the proper roles. Players need to be responsible enough to know that a tankless vet dungeon in a full pug group is far from a guarantee many times but this just doesn't seem to be something they worry about until after the 10th wipe on the first boss they come up to with no tank.

VaranisArano

How would the groupfinder account for the people who equip a rest staff for the quick queue and then swap to a DPS build?

I'm not sure there's a foolproof way to prevent people from gaming the system as long as the DPS queues are long enough to drive people to queue for roles they can't actually fill. Unfortunately.

Tasear

Honestly, best way is to vote to kick such players.

Taleof2Cities

Honestly, best way is to ignore the group finder altogether ... and form a pre-made group with friends or guildies.

AlnilamE

The best way is to be a real tank or healer yourself. :-)

Smasherx74

Just get another good dps. Two good dpses pulling 30-40k can easily cut through most vet dungeons like it's butter.

ArchMikem

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Just get another good dps. Two good dpses pulling 30-40k can easily cut through most vet dungeons like it's butter.

Then the group wipes cause theres no one there to tank the 90k hits.

ResTandRespeC

ArchMikem wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Just get another good dps. Two good dpses pulling 30-40k can easily cut through most vet dungeons like it's butter.

Then the group wipes cause theres no one there to tank the 90k hits.

nah, theres very few dungeons that actually require a tank. Pugs are called that for a reason though, and chances are if you find yourself in a position where a dps qued as a tank or healer there not going to be pulling 30k+ dps to burn everything down

LeagueTroll

disagree, i play my real tank most the time, the bigger problem is definitely those 10k dps players.

White wabbit

Tasear wrote: »

Honestly, best way is to vote to kick such players.

Who needs a healer these days , if you have a Warden tank

Darieltis

LeagueTroll wrote: »

disagree, i play my real tank most the time, the bigger problem is definitely those 10k dps players.

Agreed, and then they blame you (as tank or heals) when they take 3 years to kill the trash or die to standing in fire...

Damican1982

The problem is that while tanks and healers can get a group in less than 5-10 minutes, DPS can wait forever to get a spot. No one wants to wait an hour to do to a 20 minute dungeon. So, I understand why they do it. Easiest and simplest solution to this would be to just add another DPS spot, adjust the boss/adds health accordingly. It wouldn't solve ALL the problems, but would make it easier on DPS to get a group. It's one of the reason I main a healer. I got tired of waiting 45 minutes, and then someone declines.

FastBen

Damican1982 wrote: »

.......... I got tired of waiting 45 minutes, and then someone declines.

Yes, but then “you are put on the top of the queue” so no worries

CultOfMMO

i've played as both tank/DD and i can say without a doubt the most cancerous *** to ever exist in this game is *** poor garbage level dps, which i will almost always GUARANTEE to get at least 1 if im queuing on my actual tank

i've had to resort to altering my tank build to be able to at least output 15k dps to get through most random dungeons in a timely manner

so if i have to resort to queuing as a tank on my 45k DDs and carry a few ppl then so be it. Most are grateful, some complain more than they should, at the end of the day everyone gets what they want one way or another

obviously i've seen my fair share of over zealous DDs that are anything but competent and really ruin everyone else's day. In that case sure, vote kick is your friend and you should use it, otherwise stop with the whole dont queue as tank BS because there are FAR FAR WORSE things in this game than a "tank dps" if they know what they're doing.

ArchMikem wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Just get another good dps. Two good dpses pulling 30-40k can easily cut through most vet dungeons like it's butter.

Then the group wipes cause theres no one there to tank the 90k hits.

you should prob learn to block/shield/dodgeroll

White wabbit

CultOfMMO wrote: »

i've played as both tank/DD and i can say without a doubt the most cancerous *** to ever exist in this game is *** poor garbage level dps, which i will almost always GUARANTEE to get at least 1 if im queuing on my actual tank

i've had to resort to altering my tank build to be able to at least output 15k dps to get through most random dungeons in a timely manner

so if i have to resort to queuing as a tank on my 45k DDs and carry a few ppl then so be it. Most are grateful, some complain more than they should, at the end of the day everyone gets what they want one way or another

obviously i've seen my fair share of over zealous DDs that are anything but competent and really ruin everyone else's day. In that case sure, vote kick is your friend and you should use it, otherwise stop with the whole dont queue as tank BS because there are FAR FAR WORSE things in this game than a "tank dps" if they know what they're doing.

ArchMikem wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Just get another good dps. Two good dpses pulling 30-40k can easily cut through most vet dungeons like it's butter.

Then the group wipes cause theres no one there to tank the 90k hits.

you should prob learn to block/shield/dodgeroll

Lol the above ^^^^^^ block 90k hits on A Dd

CultOfMMO

White wabbit wrote: »

CultOfMMO wrote: »

i've played as both tank/DD and i can say without a doubt the most cancerous *** to ever exist in this game is *** poor garbage level dps, which i will almost always GUARANTEE to get at least 1 if im queuing on my actual tank

i've had to resort to altering my tank build to be able to at least output 15k dps to get through most random dungeons in a timely manner

so if i have to resort to queuing as a tank on my 45k DDs and carry a few ppl then so be it. Most are grateful, some complain more than they should, at the end of the day everyone gets what they want one way or another

obviously i've seen my fair share of over zealous DDs that are anything but competent and really ruin everyone else's day. In that case sure, vote kick is your friend and you should use it, otherwise stop with the whole dont queue as tank BS because there are FAR FAR WORSE things in this game than a "tank dps" if they know what they're doing.

ArchMikem wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Just get another good dps. Two good dpses pulling 30-40k can easily cut through most vet dungeons like it's butter.

Then the group wipes cause theres no one there to tank the 90k hits.

you should prob learn to block/shield/dodgeroll

Lol the above ^^^^^^ block 90k hits on A Dd

i didnt think pointing out the idiocy of saying anything in a vet dungeon can hit close to 90k would be essential in getting my point through

But then again I never did a dungeon completely naked and neither should you

idk

1. a rStaff is not required to be a healer. It merely requires having a heal. Clearly since multiple classes have good heals this should be obvious.

Next someone will suggest requiring specific heals to be considered a healer.

2. A taunt is all that is required to be a tank, buy definition. Many DPS have tanked even DLC bosses as such, successfully.

Guppet

CultOfMMO wrote: »

i've played as both tank/DD and i can say without a doubt the most cancerous *** to ever exist in this game is *** poor garbage level dps, which i will almost always GUARANTEE to get at least 1 if im queuing on my actual tank

i've had to resort to altering my tank build to be able to at least output 15k dps to get through most random dungeons in a timely manner

so if i have to resort to queuing as a tank on my 45k DDs and carry a few ppl then so be it. Most are grateful, some complain more than they should, at the end of the day everyone gets what they want one way or another

obviously i've seen my fair share of over zealous DDs that are anything but competent and really ruin everyone else's day. In that case sure, vote kick is your friend and you should use it, otherwise stop with the whole dont queue as tank BS because there are FAR FAR WORSE things in this game than a "tank dps" if they know what they're doing.

ArchMikem wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Just get another good dps. Two good dpses pulling 30-40k can easily cut through most vet dungeons like it's butter.

Then the group wipes cause theres no one there to tank the 90k hits.

you should prob learn to block/shield/dodgeroll

Problem being your assumption assumes a great DPS has queued as a tank. That’s far from the case normally.

Not an issue for me as I only tank.

I do see fake DPS all the time though. No DPS should have HP rivalling your tank. So many groups I see DPS with 30k or more health, even some using sword and shield!

Nothing as quite as annoying as DPS that can’t actually put out more damage than the tank.

They will even go right ahead and pull for me too, because they clearly have no clue about the 7 second aggro rotations in this game. If you initiate then aggro is yours for 7 seconds until someone taunts a mob.

They still die with 30k health too. Probably due to their single target damage not killing the pack of mobs.

It’s combinations of fakes that cause issues. Most groups can survive one fake, but when you get more than one, it’s going to be painful regardless of role.

Guppet

I do think that if you queue for a role your not fulfilling, you should accept any kick with dignity.

If your not the best skilled or new, You should be able to queue as DPS and expect to have a tank and healer. It’s how you will learn how to actually become a good DPS.

Anyone queue jumping is screwing over people who are legitimately queuing under the correct role. If you think groups don’t need a tank, form your own group. It’s not acceptable to choose that other players don’t want to have a tank. Doesn’t matter what DPS you put out, you removed their choice, with your actions

CultOfMMO

I think if you want legitimate roles and proper comp for learning purpose then get your own group. Random queues are just for the bonus so speed and efficiency is everything, and you just have to work with what you get.

But yeah either you leave or accept the kick with dignity and move on.

Guppet

CultOfMMO wrote: »

I think if you want legitimate roles and proper comp for learning purpose then get your own group. Random queues are just for the bonus so speed and efficiency is everything, and you just have to work with what you get.

But yeah either you leave or accept the kick with dignity and move on.

So your suggesting that people that want the group composition that the game says your queuing for, should form their own groups, not use the preformed group finder set up to give to give the exact composition they want? And those that want to ignore what the game says, should have group finder to abuse?

You do see how that’s utterly idiotic don’t you surely?

Do you take your trolly to the basket isle too?

Inarre

Zos should implement a kudos system like every other mmo.

CultOfMMO

funny how you quote specific roles that the game "intends" and yet you yourself pointed out ppl who simply are too clueless to perform their intended role.

ppl cant care less what composition they get as long as they get the daily bonus quick and painless, at least thats most ppl i know.

if someone is genuinely concerned about learning their roles in a proper composition they'll be much better off finding a few like minded guildies

so regardless of what your goals are you can spend time to get ppl you know and trust to queue with or you queue for random hope for the best prepare for the worst.

if you really think that sounds idiotic im sorry but just know that I'm not arguing about how things SHOULD BE, im stating how things ARE

srfrogg23

The only way I can think of to make this work is for the game to account for the types of weapon/armor abilities and passives the player currently has active and prevent people from changing anything after the dungeon has started.

But... I can also see people storming Zos HQ with torches and pitchforks if this happened.

Guppet

CultOfMMO wrote: »

funny how you quote specific roles that the game "intends" and yet you yourself pointed out ppl who simply are too clueless to perform their intended role.

ppl cant care less what composition they get as long as they get the daily bonus quick and painless, at least thats most ppl i know.

if someone is genuinely concerned about learning their roles in a proper composition they'll be much better off finding a few like minded guildies

so regardless of what your goals are you can spend time to get ppl you know and trust to queue with or you queue for random hope for the best prepare for the worst.

if you really think that sounds idiotic im sorry but just know that I'm not arguing about how things SHOULD BE, im stating how things ARE

Not being skilled at your role is not the same as queuing for a role with no intention to perform said role and you know it.

What IS doesn’t make it right. People do commit crimes, does that make it right?

Krayl

I don't care THAT much about DPS queuing as tanks in the easier vets, but if you are one of the offenders who does this, man up and make sure you can wipe your own butt, shield, heal, and equip a taunt and keep the boss in one place so the rest of us can kill it.

If you dont do this, you're probably spending just as much excess time finishing the dungeon via wipes and fights that take longer than they should than if you'd just queued as dps and waited.

XxCaLxX

Don’t get me wrong getting a dps as tank that die from any one shot is nerve wrecking but what really grinds my gears is getting a dps using s&b and putting out a whopping 5k dps in vet fang lair or other vet dlc dungeons. As magsorc I can tank most vet dungeons as dps. Do vet falk hard mode regularly with 4 dps. It’s a shame honestly that you can do this in vet dlc dungeons but even so I never use dungeon finder and q as a tank with a dps.

Guppet

One thing I don’t get with those groups with no tank is, who herds? I tank, so I pull mobs in with leash, so the actual DPS can hit them all with AOE, so they go down damn quick.

With more DPS, you can put out more DPS, but if the mobs are not herded together, is it actually more effective?

Which would actually be better? A DPS that has a taunt or an actual herding tank that is set up to do AOE DPS.

I’d suspect the latter is much better.

I’m not sure if the fake tanks have even tried tanking, to see if they enjoy it. I love it, so can’t understand why they would not try.

In easier content you can easily go full AOE tank, baharas, thunderbug and Grothdars. You put out enough AOE to take down packs by yourself. While at the same time your group gets mobs grouped together and an actual tank for the bosses.

I think too many people are afraid to properly tank due to experiences in other games.

I think another part of it is that people think that tanks have to go with the meta, which is currently soul destroying boring.

josiahva

no thanks, I dont feel like whatever role I queue for should have the build dictated by whatever build you think I should run. Why should it matter what weapons/armor/skills I have equipped as long as I fulfill the role? So what if I want to taunt exclusively with inner fire?(terrible as that idea may be). Your requirements would just limit my build to your preconceived notions of what it should be. Besides, those abusing the system will continue to abuse the system regardless of how you try to control them. You see...this is the whole problem with trying to control other people...you cant.

LeagueTroll

Darieltis wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

disagree, i play my real tank most the time, the bigger problem is definitely those 10k dps players.

Agreed, and then they blame you (as tank or heals) when they take 3 years to kill the trash or die to standing in fire...

Oh i have vhof title, I don’t get blamed by potatoes, i flame and kick them ofc.