Master Writ system REALLY needs an overhaul

Arunei

So I got this wonderful little master writ today.



Now the set is fine, but for only 18 vouchers, I would expect something like this to ask for a trait and motif that aren't as freaking rare as they are. It's not even that Nirnhoned is 'rare' because you don't need to research the other eight traits before it now, but simply because of how rare the trait mats are. The same goes for Telvanni.

Lower-value master writs should NOT ask for rarer traits, sets that require 7+ traits, or rarer motifs. It's also frustrating to get the odd writ for 20-30 vouchers asked for Legendary level stuff; even the 40-ish ones should still ask only for Epic. As it is, the writs are too random in what they ask for as opposed to the number of vouchers they give. Is it too much to ask for a system that brings what you put into the writ in line with what you get in return?

For one, master writs shouldn't call for Legendary items until somewhere around the 80-100 voucher area. They also shouldn't start calling for higher-trait sets or rarer styles until perhaps around the 50-60 area? Definitely not for a master writ worth only seven vouchers for example. And no writ wanting Nirnhoned should give less than 50-60 writs, either, give or take a handful. Basically, ZOS needs to sit down and make different 'pools', with easier writs giving fewer vouchers and the actual harder ones giving more. I know a lot of people will probably disagree with this, saying, "Oh but I love my 200 voucher writs that only ask for a vanilla style and trait and a 2-trait set!" The only problem is you get the higher-value easy writs much less often than you do the lower-value harder ones. Writs that are worth less than say 40 vouchers should never ask for 9-set traits with DLC dungeon styles and Nirnhoned, for example. It would be up to ZOS to create the different tiers of writ worth, such as 4-7, 8-20, 21-40, and so on, and then assign those tiers the various requirements, but I'm sure it can't be too awfully hard to come up with something that makes sense and actually rewards people based on the requirements of any given writ.

Which brings me to another point. I thought that having more traits and recipes learned, and having more runes translated, and so on, meant that you were supposed to get master writs more often. Except I can a week or longer without getting a single one. And most of the time when I do get a writ, it's for one that ranges from 4-7 vouchers. This needs reworking as much as the above point does; if you have more traits and everything learned, then you should not only get master writs more often, you should get the higher, more rewarding ones more often, because clearly you can do them. At the same time, people with fewer traits or recipes or runes or whatever should be getting more of the easier writs, since obviously if they only know 5 traits on a piece, they aren't going to be able to make a TBS writ asking for that piece. Now that's not to say someone with more traits should never get lesser writs and someone with fewer traits should never get better writs. I'm just saying what you have learned should actually make a freaking difference in the writs you get, which from what I've seen since this system was implemented...it doesn't seem to matter in the slightest.

Taleof2Cities

To be fair:

- The Telvanni motif has been in the game over a year now.
- Magnus requires only four (4) traits to craft.
- No crafting character is required to wait on researching Nirnhoned as their last trait researched.

So, I'd rather ZOS focus on the steak and not the peas.

Number one priority is the low writ value of jewelry crafting master writs. Many threads on this issue already.

After that, the master writs that require perfect roe need a boost.

My crafting main does fine on drops ... as long as you understand the voucher value is pure RNG AFTER the roll to get a master writ.

redspecter23

My thought is that lower value master writs for equipment shouldn't exist at all. Legendary or nothing and reward appropriately. The current system is far from perfect and definitely needs a look by some fresh eyes. The current dev in charge is mathematically challenged to say the least (looking directly at JC master writs).

Arunei

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

To be fair:

- The Telvanni motif has been in the game over a year now.
- Magnus requires only four (4) traits to craft.
- No crafting character is required to wait on researching Nirnhoned as their last trait researched.

So, I'd rather ZOS focus on the steak and not the peas.

Number one priority is the low writ value of jewelry crafting master writs. Many threads on this issue already.

After that, the master writs that require perfect roe need a boost.

My crafting main does fine on drops ... as long as you understand the voucher value is pure RNG AFTER the roll to get a master writ.

I did mention that the set was fine :P. I also mentioned that it's not researching Nirnhoned that's the problem, as I said right in my post you don't need to wait to research it now. It's the rarity of the Nirncrux; the same goes for Telvanni. The motif has been in the game for a while now, yes, but the mats are still fairly hard to come by, and when you do find them, they lean towards the more expensive side of things. That's my point; the rarity in the mats, though yes, rare styles should also factor into things as well.

Of course JC needs a ton of work in general, not just the master writ side of things, because as I've said in another thread, right now JC feels like it's in a beta period rather than having been released as a final product. But honestly, JC is one part of things when it comes to writs, so in a way focusing on one portion of it is the peas.

The bit I bolded is also kinda part of the reason of this thread. The fact that it *is* pure RNG, and it really, really shouldn't be, because 90% of the time that RNG is giving us stupidly low numbers of vouchers while asking for rarer styles, mats, high-trait sets, etc. One of the main points here is that ZOS needs to change it from a pure RNGfest and actually put some effort into fleshing it out some. They rely far too heavily on RNG for just about everything in this game.

Feric51

Unfortunately, ZOS has stated that style is not factored into the writ voucher value calculation at all. This tidbit came out when people were complaining about master writs in Buoyant Armiger and Militant Ordinator styles being only worth 5-7 vouchers.

Fortified nirncrux may be rare as far as trait stones go in general, but they are far from expensive. On console (XB-NA) I picked up several last night from guild traders for less than 2k a piece, and from what I hear, console prices run higher than PC prices across the board. If I'm tasked with making that same writ with a divines trait for 6 vouchers, or spending 2k for a nirncrux to earn 18 vouchers, I'll do nirnhoned master writs all day long.

The key with many of the "hard to get" style pieces is to find the overland gear sets that drop in that style and start picking them up for cheap in traders and deconning for the style mats. Case in point: Hlaalu style mats became extremely pricey on XB-NA (3k-5k/ea) because of their use in furnishing plans, yet defiler's gear could be purchased for a few hundred gold and typically gave me about a 30% return on style mats when deconstructing it. Off the top of my head I don't know which sets drop in Telvanni style, but once you find out you can always offer in Vvardenfell zone chat to buy any trash pieces from that set(s) and many new players will gladly take you up on it. Level of the item has no bearing that I could discern for rate of return for style mats assuming you're deconning with a CP160+ character.

Also, the point about master writ values being RNG is true in one essence, but actually calculated for each writ as well. RNG determines which set, either armor or weapon, which trait, epic or legendary, and which style. Set, trait, and improvement level all have base values in the calculation to determine the number of writ vouchers it will give. And weapons seem to have an additional multiplier over armor pieces. As I mentioned above, style does not factor in.

- A basic set (Torug's - 2 traits), basic trait (sturdy) and epic improvement will always give between 5-7 vouchers regardless of profession. Market value determines the value of tempers, so they are all treated equally across all professions as far as I can tell. Consequently; a legendary, 9 trait (ex. twice-born star), nirnhoned weapon will always give the most vouchers possible. (My highest master writ awarded was a legendary, nirnhoned, twice-born star mace in draugr style that offered 301 writ vouchers for completion.

Bottom line, you'll never have a nirnhoned weapon give less than 40+ vouchers, and you'll never have an epic, invigorating leather belt give more than 7 vouchers. So RNG plays some role, but the voucher value isn't just picked out of some number generated independent of the item you're requested to craft.



-Reserved for edits that I'm sure will happen-

idk

The trait stone for armor nirnhone is pretty cheap compared to the weapon trait. Telvani has been around for awhile.

helediron

If someone is interested in how vouches are calculated, i have collected few hundred master writs into a googlesheet.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kINxXF3yoadYWCM86eY8LjV2moGXqnbpElfKEvZdxfM/edit?usp=sharing

The sheet is never meant to be published, so it's ugly and cryptic. First tab contains actual master writs i have received. The second tab contains lookup tables to convert values to multipliers.

The sheet first takes the item type + quality + trait combo to lookup the base value of vouchers. Then set and style lookup their own multipliers. Items are simplified to type, e.g. bows and staves have type www=WoodWorking Weapon. Trait is simplified to normal, nirnfort, nirnpot.

I have made a lazy attempt to resolve the formula but the sheet works only roughly. All the multipliers in the sheet are just guesswork. If there is someone with math skills and tools, feel free to resolve actual formula.

Elsterchen

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

To be fair:

- The Telvanni motif has been in the game over a year now.
- Magnus requires only four (4) traits to craft.
- No crafting character is required to wait on researching Nirnhoned as their last trait researched.

So, I'd rather ZOS focus on the steak and not the peas.

Number one priority is the low writ value of jewelry crafting master writs. Many threads on this issue already.

After that, the master writs that require perfect roe need a boost.

My crafting main does fine on drops ... as long as you understand the voucher value is pure RNG AFTER the roll to get a master writ.

Just like to add that those master writs requiring perfect roe got a boost from 10 up to 40 voucher (must have been the patch 2 weeks ago, if not earlier), nothing else to add.

Elsterchen

Sry for double, but @Feric51 : An epic, morkulin, swift ring/necklace should award more then 10 voucher, tho. Only the traitstone costs 20 voucher already... and there are no jewellery drops in swift trait (at least not atm). A master writ that (at minimum) costs 100% more voucher then it yields upon handing in, is a perfect example of a broken master writ.

jaws343

I believe that you can transmute an item to Nirnhoned to get it to count for the writ as well.

Really, I think the weapon and armor writs are fine as is. The Jewelry writs are insane. I just received a 106 voucher writ for a legendary ring. Yeah, not happening anytime soon. It's far easier to just sell the chromium grains and settle with purple jewelry for crafted sets.

Ri_Khan

I've been wondering how this works for a couple weeks now. It doesn't seem very random to me at all. I may be slightly paranoid but I swear the majority of the master writs I've been getting have all been for the last few traits I haven't researched yet (on 9th trait for most pieces now too) or they're for sets that require 9 to craft.

A couple weeks back I received a slew of woodworking writs for invigorating shields which I hadn't researched yet; I got two writs in the past week for Eternal Hunt. They're piling up in the bank. With all the possible combos available I find it hard to believe that RNG would keep landing me multiple writs for the same things I just happen to not be able to craft yet.

Sorry for the rant. It's been annoying to deal with but at least it's nice to know that in a couple weeks I'll be swimming in vouchers!

Imza

I've had master writs for 17 vouchers that require potent nirncrux.....

helediron

Imza wrote: »

I've had master writs for 17 vouchers that require potent nirncrux.....

17 Vouchers nirnhoned writ is always armor piece and therefore fortified.

f047ys3v3n

Epic armor nirn writs are my favorite to do.

They are a good number of vouchers and cheep to make. Shame that the set multiplier is low on that one since that multiplier is free.

It is the low set multiplier, non-nirn, low motif multiplier legendary writs I hate. Right. Like I'm going to drop 8 gold mats for 48 vouchers. I think I'll sell those duds.

As for those 100 voucher gold jewelry vouchers.... Can't even sell that garbage.

Slick_007

Arunei wrote: »

I'm just saying what you have learned should actually make a freaking difference in the writs you get, which from what I've seen since this system was implemented...it doesn't seem to matter in the slightest.

why should it? why should you get only master writs that you already know how to do? wheres the effort required in doing those?

Jayne_Doe

Slick_007 wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

I'm just saying what you have learned should actually make a freaking difference in the writs you get, which from what I've seen since this system was implemented...it doesn't seem to matter in the slightest.

why should it? why should you get only master writs that you already know how to do? wheres the effort required in doing those?

I think it should matter, but only in the same way that it matters for your chance at getting MWs. So, the same small/slight increase that we get from having all achieves, motifs, traits, etc. should factor into the chance of getting a higher-value writ. So, yes, I'll still get 5-7 voucher gear writs, but I would also have a slightly better chance of getting something that's higher than 100.

For the past 2 months at least, I've gotten a decent number of gear writs, but ALL of them have been 5-7 vouchers - NOTHING HIGHER THAN THAT! My husband, on the other hand, who has hardly any motifs learned and is still working on traits (on console, where he doesn't often play), gets a 315 and a 92 on the same day. He recently sent me one for 74 that he couldn't complete since he didn't know Ancient Orc on that particular piece and I suggested that he buy that page. His response...that's ok, I've got another one for 101.

That is really disheartening to someone who has spent millions of gold on motifs and has had everything researched for the longest time. How many base mats and tempers I've spent to get 100 vouchers (14-20 crap MWs) as opposed to the relative little expense of a MW worth 100. I'm sinking mats into the regular writs and sinking mats into the piddly MWs I do get.

I'm not saying that new master crafters shouldn't get high-value writs. I'm just suggesting that the same chance increase that is applied to obtaining a MW should also apply to the value of the writ. So, yes, I'll still get lower-value writs, but I may actually get a decent one slightly more often.

Elsterchen

~cough cough~ stop argueing pls.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/424230/pts-patch-notes-v4-1-0/p1

Jewelry Crafting

Fixed an issue where the Jewelry Crafting Certification quest would accept any ring, rather than only accepting a ring you crafted.

Fixed an issue that was causing some of the Rich Seams in Jewelry Crafting Survey: Craglorn III to disappear when you got close to the resource nodes.

Added interaction text to Jewelry Crafting Writ Turn-In Crates.

Updated the text on the Jewelry Trait Master achievement for clarity.

Heavy Sacks will now have a chance to drop Jewelry Crafting Dust instead of Jewelry Crafting Ounces.

Dramatically improved the value of Artifact-quality Jewelry Crafting Master Writs, and significantly increased the value of Legendary-quality Jewelry Crafting Master Writs, in terms of their Writ Voucher payouts.
All Jewelry Crafting Writs received in the future will see this increased Voucher value; this change will not impact any Jewelry Crafting Master Writs already present in game.

Jayne_Doe

jaws343 wrote: »

I believe that you can transmute an item to Nirnhoned to get it to count for the writ as well.

Really, I think the weapon and armor writs are fine as is. The Jewelry writs are insane. I just received a 106 voucher writ for a legendary ring. Yeah, not happening anytime soon. It's far easier to just sell the chromium grains and settle with purple jewelry for crafted sets.

Transmuting binds the piece to you, and you cannot turn in equipment that is bound. I found this out the hard way, when I accidentally equipped a piece of gear for a writ.

General_Zeranth

Why couldn't this of been a blacksmithing writ. xD

Either way I agree, the writs definitely need looking at. I've started trashing stuff worth 7-10 vouchers that take nirn or super hard to get style mats. >->

Crafts_Many_Boxes

Elsterchen wrote: »

~cough cough~ stop argueing pls.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/424230/pts-patch-notes-v4-1-0/p1

Jewelry Crafting

Fixed an issue where the Jewelry Crafting Certification quest would accept any ring, rather than only accepting a ring you crafted.

Fixed an issue that was causing some of the Rich Seams in Jewelry Crafting Survey: Craglorn III to disappear when you got close to the resource nodes.

Added interaction text to Jewelry Crafting Writ Turn-In Crates.

Updated the text on the Jewelry Trait Master achievement for clarity.

Heavy Sacks will now have a chance to drop Jewelry Crafting Dust instead of Jewelry Crafting Ounces.

Dramatically improved the value of Artifact-quality Jewelry Crafting Master Writs, and significantly increased the value of Legendary-quality Jewelry Crafting Master Writs, in terms of their Writ Voucher payouts.
All Jewelry Crafting Writs received in the future will see this increased Voucher value; this change will not impact any Jewelry Crafting Master Writs already present in game.

Do you honestly think they'll up the values to be 5x / 10x what they currently are? That's what they would have to do for the crafting costs to make sense.

The whole thing is a bandaid on the dumpster fire of a system that is jewelry crafting, and I'm tired of it all.

Elsterchen

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

~cough cough~ stop argueing pls.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/424230/pts-patch-notes-v4-1-0/p1

Jewelry Crafting

Fixed an issue where the Jewelry Crafting Certification quest would accept any ring, rather than only accepting a ring you crafted.

Fixed an issue that was causing some of the Rich Seams in Jewelry Crafting Survey: Craglorn III to disappear when you got close to the resource nodes.

Added interaction text to Jewelry Crafting Writ Turn-In Crates.

Updated the text on the Jewelry Trait Master achievement for clarity.

Heavy Sacks will now have a chance to drop Jewelry Crafting Dust instead of Jewelry Crafting Ounces.

Dramatically improved the value of Artifact-quality Jewelry Crafting Master Writs, and significantly increased the value of Legendary-quality Jewelry Crafting Master Writs, in terms of their Writ Voucher payouts.
All Jewelry Crafting Writs received in the future will see this increased Voucher value; this change will not impact any Jewelry Crafting Master Writs already present in game.

Do you honestly think they'll up the values to be 5x / 10x what they currently are? That's what they would have to do for the crafting costs to make sense.

The whole thing is a bandaid on the dumpster fire of a system that is jewelry crafting, and I'm tired of it all.

I know for sure they did not increase the master writ voucher 5-times, after all this can be checked by everyone on PTS (masterwrits come plenty with full leveled templates). Yet, jewellery master writs will yield more voucher then they cost after the launch of the next DLC, which imo is the important part in beeing "worth" doing.

Are jewellery master writs as cheap as other master writs? Certainly not!
Does anything change in the way platings are obtained? Nope, nothing I am aware of!

However the title of this thread is: "Master Writ system REALLY needs an overhaul" and the Master writ system will get changes that make master writs rewarding and NOT change the way platings are obtained or cost of platings. Imo if you like to complain about the cost of platings you should probably find/open a thread for it.

disintegr8

I resolved the issue of low value provisioning master writs by choosing not to do the provisioning daily writs (Alchemy, Enchanting and Provisioning). If changes are made, I may start doing them again but.

As for the standard Equipment writs, I simply sell what master writs I do not want to make; which is nearly all purple and most gold ones less than about 80 vouchers. I have close to 3k vouchers worth of writs awaiting completion and I know all pre 'Summerset' motifs, so don't have any style issues.

Jewelry Crafting writs on the other hand are a complete joke and I will not be doing any of these until changes are made. I see from a previous post that any changes to make them worth doing will not apply to existing writs, so I will probably destroy the ones I have when the changes come to console.