New class -or- enhance existing classes?

Lunaugh

Greetings fellow forum dwellers!
I've been mulling over the existing classes, and thinking 'in what ways would a new class need to be different, mechanically and lore-wise, in order for it to be a valid choice for future character creations.

My first thought drifts to elemental destruction magic; every existing class is pure in its study of an element. Dragon Knight= Fire, Sorcerer= Lightning, Warden= Ice. It can be argued with the use of the staff weapon tree that a second element may be brought into the characters persona, however I do not feel that it answers the want for an integrated elementalist.
There are three destruction elements, is there an archtype that would fit having three trees of destruction magic?
Consider having two or more elements in a single, elemental tree, accompanied by an alteration tree and and an illusion tree. A good mix of Alteration and Illusion would benifit a tank build, Alteration and Elemental would be self-buff DPS etc.

What is the first thing your mind renders when you consider a new class addition that you'd buy a slot for/delete an alt for?


Enhancing existing classes:

When I first picked up this game, entering Tamriel as an ignorant soul shriven, I had some incorrect pre-conceptions.
I want to wield elemental magic, so I'll choose the sorcerer and grab a fire spell here, a lightning spell there, and a few frost, just to keep that Elemental JOAT RP I'd play in Skyrim.
Buuuuut, I only have access to lightning. If I wanted fire, I'd have to devote my character to another class, and forfeit lightning (Say what?).
Lore supports that casters should be able to be pure or impure in their elemental studies; limiting other elemental damage skills to the staff type does not do justice to this point. If I want to be a spell-tank (sword and shield, primary stat magica) I'm limited to the one element.
Instead of creating a new class, what are the thoughts on adding a fourth skill line?



Pre-emptive note: while I understand skill combination and character generation choices made from a roleplay perspective first and an optimizing perspective second are not popular, I assert that they are valid.
(Edited to remove potentially bating comment)

MEBengalsFan2001

I would like to see a bard type class. That to me would be a nice add. A class where you play music to damage enemies, buff allies / or yourself or heal them.

srfrogg23

Like the idea of enhancing the current classes by adding new skill lines to tinker with.

Starlight_Knight

Personally hope they don't bring out another class - look at the crap storm the Warden as been, and even now still the mag Warden is gross a year later. Not to mention the horrible grind re-levelling is.

They need to sort out class balancing big time! Bring back class identity - and lets have ICE magic actually a thing.

ONLY if they can do that and at leased start heading in the right direction then a Conjuration skill line could be cool.

Juhasow

Necromancer fanboys incoming in 3 2 1...

Raraaku

Your thoughts seem kind of jumbled to me. I'm also put off by the "Preemptive notes" section. As for the reasoning for why different classes offer different elemental types, I think it's fine as it is. Outside of Nightblade and Templar (though templar skills have a propensity for fire damage), elemental types give each class a uniqueness and flavor that sets it apart from the other classes. Although ZOS needs to fix Ice magic to help out MagWardens, I don't see the problem with the current system. If you're arguing for any class to use any elemental damage skill they want, what would be the point? The current system, I would argue, actually helps player/class diversity. When talking about class imbalance, elemental damage types rarely come up, and the only class that has an argument is the Magicka Warden due to the whole frost staff tanking scenario needing to be looked at and corrected.

Outside of PvP, elemental damage types don't have a huge impact on the game. Sure, fire can be better in terms of min/max set-ups (assuming your tank is DK and is using Engulfing Flames skill) but outside of that, elemental damage types aren't a huge consideration for PvE as far as I know. PvP could be a different story accounting for Vampires, and racial resistances, but I have very limited experience in that regard.

So, in my opinion, the current system is fine as it is from a mechanics standpoint and it only seems to be a user issue and a minor one at that in terms of elemental damage types.

BeefyMrTips

Necromancer!!!!

awesomedave55

Long ago they pitched skill crafting, you would be able to find various runes simular to enchanting and mix and match them to gain diffrent skills. But as far as i know the guy that was heading left ZOS. Still woulda been cool.

Facefister

I would remove large amount of buffs and debuffs from specific roles like tanks/DDs/Healers and gather them under certain "Support" skill lines or maybe a new class.

shadowwraith666

i would like the elemental magic classes to be expanded and given access to the other elements, perhaps even adding skills that npc's only use.

spell making however would be an ideal solution to the above.

Chaos2088

BOTH!

Existing classes need either extra skills lines added or a revamp (into something I have no idea lol)

Also new classes, Necomancer, Beserker, Battlemage, Monk, Bard/Minstral, Technomage.

Sibenice

I would like if they added weapon spell variety. Magicka classes only have a single option and and it's not that much better for stamina, then healers and tanks also basically only have one option. Makes playing the different classes feel very same-y.

jlmurra2

The idea of a new class being added makes me feel both excitment, and dread. It is exciting to think of new builds, and play styles, yet there is also the regrinding/rebuillding, and what if the new class fits a previously made, and developed character better than their current class.
Time is the most valuable factor in this game, and It would feel as it was wasted previously, or/and perhaps in the future.

Adding new skill lines makes me feel only excitement, due to being able to enhance characters I have already, and grinding/building a skill line is so much faster that starting a new character.

The more thought I put into classes, the more I agree with those who post about dissolving the class system, and letting everyone either choose their own three skill lines, or allowing everyone to build their characters with any skill/ability/passive from all skill lines.

Classes are really only three skill lines grouped together under a class name. So when we choose a class we gain access/benefits of three skill lines, and prevent access/benefits of twelve other skill lines currently. It seems all the class system does is effectively restrict unique, and interesting builds.

I understand many feel the classes have been homogenized over time, but isn't the status of having classes homogeneous?

p00tx

Many of the Destruction staff skills change their elemental nature depending on your staff type, so you can choose to add a second element that way. I use a flame staff on my Sorc, so in PvE her Blockade is fire based, and PvP, her Clench is a ball of flame. It's a nice way to customize your build

Korprok

remove the classes, we don't need em in my humble opinion.

I feel that ZoS has never been able to come close to a good overall (thematically and mechanically) balance with their 4 classes (now 5) and their 12 skill trees (now 15), and in total 60! skills (now 75!) - and that's before ults and that's before morphs and that's before guild skills with their ults and morphs and weapon skills with their ults and morphs - They constantly need to balance all of them to stam/mag, role, equipment, pve and pvp...

I feel there are so many weak skills, situational skills and so many skills that easily could and should be combined.

In addition the classes are a bit all over the place (thematically and mechanically) while at the same time they feel very shoehorned... want to play with fire? great! you can roll a Dragon Knight with 3 skills lines that's somewhat focused and connected to said fire. Want to play with lightning? not so great, you can roll a Sorcerer with one dedicated skill tree, and now same with fost and the Warden class.

Serjustin19

Given the fact, we not receive new character this chapter. Not to mention Warden was already available on beta before game came out. (so many not liked old original warden) it's only why Warden was and probably be the only. New character, in Chapter. In my opinion though, I believe ZOS made right choice. To add new payable skill line, as a dlc in a sense. (Unofficially Chapter's are dlc in my eyes) In my opinion, ZOS should add more skill line. Both paid and not paid. At same time, Weapon Ults are still considered new. Eventhough been out for long time. So I don't see why not, with reworking new skills for class to.

josiahva

Lunaugh wrote: »

Greetings fellow forum dwellers!
I've been mulling over the existing classes, and thinking 'in what ways would a new class need to be different, mechanically and lore-wise, in order for it to be a valid choice for future character creations.

My first thought drifts to elemental destruction magic; every existing class is pure in its study of an element. Dragon Knight= Fire, Sorcerer= Lightning, Warden= Ice. It can be argued with the use of the staff weapon tree that a second element may be brought into the characters persona, however I do not feel that it answers the want for an integrated elementalist.
There are three destruction elements, is there an archtype that would fit having three trees of destruction magic?
Consider having two or more elements in a single, elemental tree, accompanied by an alteration tree and and an illusion tree. A good mix of Alteration and Illusion would benifit a tank build, Alteration and Elemental would be self-buff DPS etc.

What is the first thing your mind renders when you consider a new class addition that you'd buy a slot for/delete an alt for?


Enhancing existing classes:

When I first picked up this game, entering Tamriel as an ignorant soul shriven, I had some incorrect pre-conceptions.
I want to wield elemental magic, so I'll choose the sorcerer and grab a fire spell here, a lightning spell there, and a few frost, just to keep that Elemental JOAT RP I'd play in Skyrim.
Buuuuut, I only have access to lightning. If I wanted fire, I'd have to devote my character to another class, and forfeit lightning (Say what?).
Lore supports that casters should be able to be pure or impure in their elemental studies; limiting other elemental damage skills to the staff type does not do justice to this point. If I want to be a spell-tank (sword and shield, primary stat magica) I'm limited to the one element.
Instead of creating a new class, what are the thoughts on adding a fourth skill line?



Pre-emptive notes: while I understand skill combination and character generation choices made from a roleplay perspective first and an optimizing perspective second are not popular, I assert that they are valid.
Naysayers and negative Nancys are welcome, however I ask that you utilize more brain power than three sentence exclamations on why it would never happen. If, to be clever, you add a fourth sentence, I will accept that.

Warden is NOT an ice mage class...warden is a NATURE magic class...it only has like 3 ice damage spells, not enough for a viable ice mage...thats like saying a templar is a fire mage class...its not.

But going back on-topic. I would like enhanced skill lines for existing classes, whether that means an enhanced morph tree or an entire new skill line, all new skills lead to more build diversity, and build diversity is the holy grail in this game...people copy and paste builds and always will...but at least give them more builds to choose from

WillhelmBlack

Un-nerf the other classes.

Lunaugh

Raraaku wrote: »

Your thoughts seem kind of jumbled to me. I'm also put off by the "Preemptive notes" section. As for the reasoning for why different classes offer different elemental types, I think it's fine as it is. Outside of Nightblade and Templar (though templar skills have a propensity for fire damage), elemental types give each class a uniqueness and flavor that sets it apart from the other classes. Although ZOS needs to fix Ice magic to help out MagWardens, I don't see the problem with the current system. If you're arguing for any class to use any elemental damage skill they want, what would be the point? The current system, I would argue, actually helps player/class diversity. When talking about class imbalance, elemental damage types rarely come up, and the only class that has an argument is the Magicka Warden due to the whole frost staff tanking scenario needing to be looked at and corrected.

Outside of PvP, elemental damage types don't have a huge impact on the game. Sure, fire can be better in terms of min/max set-ups (assuming your tank is DK and is using Engulfing Flames skill) but outside of that, elemental damage types aren't a huge consideration for PvE as far as I know. PvP could be a different story accounting for Vampires, and racial resistances, but I have very limited experience in that regard.

So, in my opinion, the current system is fine as it is from a mechanics standpoint and it only seems to be a user issue and a minor one at that in terms of elemental damage types.

The thoughts are jumbled, yes indeed. I'm just wanting to discuss potential future class addition or class alterations. Its a thought piece.

For you, I will edit the pre-emptive notes.

TheShadowScout

Lunaugh wrote: »

New class -or- enhance existing classes?

My thoughts on that particular question (and any like it) ought to be well known by now among all the long time forum lurkers: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/369966/class-morph-idea-mk-ii

I do not approve of adding new classes, since while the idea sounds good to all the new players, it sounds very, very bad to many of the old hands who have been playing since launch.
Both in an "Why do I have to make yet another alt just to enjoy this new classiness now" way, and moreso in an "Why in the name of all that is unholy was that class not available at launch, it would have made soooo much mose sense for that backstory of this main/alt of mine..."

So, instead, I would much rather seem them enhance existing classes, prerefably with some added diversification options - let people choose a fourth class skill line to "specialize" in from several (as in at least three, because if it was only two it would inevitably end up in "stamina support" and "magica support" options, thus killing all "choice") options, possibly going as far as changing (morphing ) their class designation as well into that new "specialization" and perhaps even adjusting some of the existing class skills to better match the new specialized "prestige class" (even if only through some palette shifts so it all is color-coordinated)

generalmyrick

i want new classes and races!

SilverIce58

What I personally would like is to get rid of the class system all together and instead set up a system where everyone has access to each skill line, but you can pick and choose which three of the former class lines you want to use. For example, if you want to be an elemental mage, you can choose the lightning line from sorc, the fire line from dk, and the ice line from warden. I feel like this would increase player diversity tenfold, as anyone can use any skill. Sure some would say, "but wait, everyone would just use the strongest skills in meta" and yes. They would. But how is that argument any different for whats happening now? Everyone is currently using the strongest skills that the meta dictates. The meta adapts, and what would be the strongest would change as it always does. It would let the meta players play with whatever skills they think are strongest, and it would enable the rest of us to come up with amazing new builds.

Take archeage, for example, they have all these skill lines with tons of skills, but they can only use three at a time. We'd pick three and only be allowed to use the three skill lines(meaning if you chose to use the fire/ice/shock combo from dk/warden/sorc, you wouldnt be allowed to use passives from other skill lines).

Lunaugh

SilverIce58 wrote: »

What I personally would like is to get rid of the class system all together and instead set up a system where everyone has access to each skill line, but you can pick and choose which three of the former class lines you want to use. For example, if you want to be an elemental mage, you can choose the lightning line from sorc, the fire line from dk, and the ice line from warden. I feel like this would increase player diversity tenfold, as anyone can use any skill. Sure some would say, "but wait, everyone would just use the strongest skills in meta" and yes. They would. But how is that argument any different for whats happening now? Everyone is currently using the strongest skills that the meta dictates. The meta adapts, and what would be the strongest would change as it always does. It would let the meta players play with whatever skills they think are strongest, and it would enable the rest of us to come up with amazing new builds.

Take archeage, for example, they have all these skill lines with tons of skills, but they can only use three at a time. We'd pick three and only be allowed to use the three skill lines(meaning if you chose to use the fire/ice/shock combo from dk/warden/sorc, you wouldnt be allowed to use passives from other skill lines).

I like where you are going with this. I’d fully support a system that retained the ‘three skill line’ model but scrapped class seperation/lockouts.

Sektion67

I really hope they're working on improving/expanding what currently exists in the game. Adding new weapons and skill lines is fine, but it doesn't help with making any of the current classes feel more unique in any meaningful way. ZOS implemented a class system, now it's time to refine it further.

The combat in this game was great for a base game release, but here we are 4 + years later and what has really changed? Champion Points? It's just not enough to keep me interested. I want to see specializations that alter the class fantasy and shake things up.

mb10

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

I would like to see a bard type class. That to me would be a nice add. A class where you play music to damage enemies, buff allies / or yourself or heal them.

Thats cool and all but please not another support class lol

Maybe bard could be related to one of the skill trees of the class

TheShadowScout

generalmyrick wrote: »

i want new classes and races!

I said my piece about new classes (do not want!), but new races... now that is a different discussion, and something the game really could benefit from, methinks!

Lunaugh

TheShadowScout wrote: »

generalmyrick wrote: »

i want new classes and races!

I said my piece about new classes (do not want!), but new races... now that is a different discussion, and something the game really could benefit from, methinks!

What races would you pull from cannon? I know this deviates from the primary post, so I'm going to create a whole new thread for it.

Edit: Actually, just check out this thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/422285/new-player-race-possibilities#latest

Soella

It is pretty much discussion between altoholics (we would enjoy to have a new class) and those who prefer to have only one-two main characters.

Morrowind chapter threw a bone to one side. Summerset - to another, and I personally think that the new psijic order line is very elegant decision how to enhance existing class. Logically next chapter should be again for altaholics with either a new class or a new race (more probable).

josiahva

What I would like to see is existing classes being able to learn other class skill lines...say a DK who wants to learn Storm Calling could do so...but it would take 10 times as long to level, and the costs would be say 20% to use a learned skill line than a native one. This would give you something to keep building toward and mastering while ensuring you would only be going after the skills you really wanted and you would only be using them for utility because of the added cost. If you use jabs as a non-templar you wont be able to spam it...but if you used streak as a DK, while you couldnt spam it, you would certainly add a little mobility to a class with none at all

It would also enable a true pet build with sorc pets, nightblade pets, and the warden ult as well...which might not be good or efficient at anything, but would please the RPers. It would enable elemental mages, and a ton of unique builds, all while having enough drawbacks that things wouldn't automatically become OP.

dodgehopper_ESO

I want no new classes and would much rather see them enhance what we have or offer us more skill lines.

DuskMarine

we need necromancer badly as a new class man. they shouldve been in here at launch for us to play.