Should using the current latency issues in cyrodiil against other factions be considered an exploit

usmguy1234

Faction stacking in the final emp keep has been a thing since the beginning of eso... but now with the new latency issues, you have no real chance at overthrowing the current emp because faction stacking now effectively serves as a denial of service to the other two factions. Should this be considered an exploit at this point?

Vapirko

No: this has never been an exploit even with the current issues.

There really isn’t much way to tell who is having those issues and who is not, and it’s not always an entire faction. And it’s not always the server (though lately I think it hasn’t been). This one is squarely on ZOS.

Luigi_Vampa

No: this has never been an exploit even with the current issues.

You can't punish players for ZOS' server problems. What is the emp faction supposed to do? Not defend their keep?

usmguy1234

Yes: considering the currently issues this is an exploit.

Vapirko wrote: »

There really isn’t much way to tell who is having those issues and who is not, and it’s not always an entire faction. And it’s not always the server (though lately I think it hasn’t been). This one is squarely on ZOS.

Right but abusing broken mechanisms regardless of how broken the game is currently is just classless and not fair to the players who don't. On xbox, emp would cycle every couple of days at least. Now you have people holding on to emp for weeks at a time and zerging the other alliances to their gates. Every time they bother to show up somewhere they lag people out... and even when another alliance makes a push they can't get the last keep.

usmguy1234

Yes: considering the currently issues this is an exploit.

Luigi_Vampa wrote: »

You can't punish players for ZOS' server problems. What is the emp faction supposed to do? Not defend their keep?

This is why I made the other option. I guess I need to reword it.

Sandman929

No: this has never been an exploit even with the current issues.

It's a crappy situation, but it's not their fault and eventually it'll get fixed. I can't really expect players to put up weak resistance just to simulate a functional server, and the truth is if enough players really wanted to put in the effort they could bring great numbers into the early morning hours when the game seems somewhat functional and take the map, then they might be able to reverse the situation and be the ones lagging out the other two sides.
I've opted for simply not caring and squeezing in whatever functional PvP I can before the server gets more than 1 bar of any faction and becomes unplayable.

VaranisArano

I mean, if I can't defend the last emp keep because both other factions are attacking it and I crash every time I get within 20 feet of the walls, are the other two factions exploiting to prevent me from defending? (Actually happened, missed out on a giant D tick at BRK that my raid got - those who weren't crashing, anyways - because of it)

Please. I'm not that silly.

ZOS needs to fix their game so that we can play as intended, which includes bringing numbers to bear on capturing and defending important objectives. I refuse to blame players for playing as intended when its ZOS' fault that playing as intended results in disconnects and crashes for some players.

usmguy1234

Yes: considering the currently issues this is an exploit.

Sandman929 wrote: »

It's a crappy situation, but it's not their fault and eventually it'll get fixed. I can't really expect players to put up weak resistance just to simulate a functional server, and the truth is if enough players really wanted to put in the effort they could bring great numbers into the early morning hours when the game seems somewhat functional and take the map, then they might be able to reverse the situation and be the ones lagging out the other two sides.
I've opted for simply not caring and squeezing in whatever functional PvP I can before the server gets more than 1 bar of any faction and becomes unplayable.

Other alliances have overthrown the emp like you've said but can never hold on to it. When the ep zerg comes a knocking the server literally stops. I've only seen one ep group crash. Somehow they are not affected the same as the other alliances.

usmguy1234

Yes: considering the currently issues this is an exploit.

VaranisArano wrote: »

I mean, if I can't defend the last emp keep because both other factions are attacking it and I crash every time I get within 20 feet of the walls, are the other two factions exploiting to prevent me from defending? (Actually happened, missed out on a giant D tick at BRK that my raid got - those who weren't crashing, anyways - because of it)

Please. I'm not that silly.

ZOS needs to fix their game so that we can play as intended, which includes bringing numbers to bear on capturing and defending important objectives. I refuse to blame players for playing as intended when its ZOS' fault that playing as intended results in disconnects and crashes for some players.

I don't think it's silly because somehow it affects the other alliances more. If it were equal i would say you're spot on. When all three alliances are pop locked and it's 2v1 essentially and the 1 faction can take the entire map something is terribly wrong.

rfennell_ESO

No: this has never been an exploit even with the current issues.

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Faction stacking in the final emp keep has been a thing since the beginning of eso... but now with the new latency issues, you have no real chance at overthrowing the current emp because faction stacking now effectively serves as a denial of service to the other two factions. Should this be considered an exploit at this point?

Problem with this line of thinking is the solution you are proposing is "not defend last emp keep" which is not EVER going to happen.

Final emp keep assaults and defenses have been a big part of eso cyrondil pvp since the servers went online.

It's all on ZOS.

Sandman929

No: this has never been an exploit even with the current issues.

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

It's a crappy situation, but it's not their fault and eventually it'll get fixed. I can't really expect players to put up weak resistance just to simulate a functional server, and the truth is if enough players really wanted to put in the effort they could bring great numbers into the early morning hours when the game seems somewhat functional and take the map, then they might be able to reverse the situation and be the ones lagging out the other two sides.
I've opted for simply not caring and squeezing in whatever functional PvP I can before the server gets more than 1 bar of any faction and becomes unplayable.

Other alliances have overthrown the emp like you've said but can never hold on to it. When the ep zerg comes a knocking the server literally stops. I've only seen one ep group crash. Somehow they are not affected the same as the other alliances.

I've seen them freeze up, but when you're 60 players VS 20 players and half freeze up, 30 VS 10 is still going to go your way, especially if the 10 are just solo or pugging. Once the freezing problem is fixed, their uppance will come.

usmguy1234

Yes: considering the currently issues this is an exploit.

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Faction stacking in the final emp keep has been a thing since the beginning of eso... but now with the new latency issues, you have no real chance at overthrowing the current emp because faction stacking now effectively serves as a denial of service to the other two factions. Should this be considered an exploit at this point?

Problem with this line of thinking is the solution you are proposing is "not defend last emp keep" which is not EVER going to happen.

Final emp keep assaults and defenses have been a big part of eso cyrondil pvp since the servers went online.

It's all on ZOS.

I'm not proposing that at all. It's the fact that there is no counter play. You'd think that once during this summerset debacle that the emp faction would suffer the same fate as the alliances attacking them but they haven't as far as I've seen. I'm not talking about losing emp during a morning cap I'm talking about primetime.

FakeFox

Other: please explain

What have I just read?

jaws343

No: this has never been an exploit even with the current issues.

The issue is both sides can be impacted by a freeze/crash.

I was fighting in front of Chalman, holding the last emp keep for EP on Xbox NA Vivec over the weekend when a ton of the players in the area crashed. And there were maybe 15-20 of us left between both sides of the fight. And at that point it became a mad dash to kill each-other as quickly as possible before another crash happened or we lost ground in the fight.

It is definitely a jarring experience but it isn't something that should be punished. It effects both sides of a battle and can happen in favor of the defenders or the attackers depending on where they are in the fight.

It does need to be fixed. I was taking Aleswell last night and crashed, logged back in and 1 minute later crashed again, relogged and got to the back flag and then I lost control of my character for an entire minute. And during this period, my character disappeared and the screen was floating around. When I finally regained control, I couldn't see my character for around 30 minutes.

Apache_Kid

No: this has never been an exploit even with the current issues.

I mean...... what?

usmguy1234

Yes: considering the currently issues this is an exploit.

jaws343 wrote: »

The issue is both sides can be impacted by a freeze/crash.

I was fighting in front of Chalman, holding the last emp keep for EP on Xbox NA Vivec over the weekend when a ton of the players in the area crashed. And there were maybe 15-20 of us left between both sides of the fight. And at that point it became a mad dash to kill each-other as quickly as possible before another crash happened or we lost ground in the fight.

It is definitely a jarring experience but it isn't something that should be punished. It effects both sides of a battle and can happen in favor of the defenders or the attackers depending on where they are in the fight.

It does need to be fixed. I was taking Aleswell last night and crashed, logged back in and 1 minute later crashed again, relogged and got to the back flag and then I lost control of my character for an entire minute. And during this period, my character disappeared and the screen was floating around. When I finally regained control, I couldn't see my character for around 30 minutes.

The only time I've seen ep crash is at alessia and it was only like 5 players. Chalman is literally impenetrable because you'll freeze if you get near it. Be honest when was the last time any alliance got to the inner keep of y'alls last emp keep during primetime hours? The last time I remember is about three weeks ago and the entire attacking alliance froze.

jaws343

No: this has never been an exploit even with the current issues.

usmguy1234 wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

The issue is both sides can be impacted by a freeze/crash.

I was fighting in front of Chalman, holding the last emp keep for EP on Xbox NA Vivec over the weekend when a ton of the players in the area crashed. And there were maybe 15-20 of us left between both sides of the fight. And at that point it became a mad dash to kill each-other as quickly as possible before another crash happened or we lost ground in the fight.

It is definitely a jarring experience but it isn't something that should be punished. It effects both sides of a battle and can happen in favor of the defenders or the attackers depending on where they are in the fight.

It does need to be fixed. I was taking Aleswell last night and crashed, logged back in and 1 minute later crashed again, relogged and got to the back flag and then I lost control of my character for an entire minute. And during this period, my character disappeared and the screen was floating around. When I finally regained control, I couldn't see my character for around 30 minutes.

The only time I've seen ep crash is at alessia and it was only like 5 players. Chalman is literally impenetrable because you'll freeze if you get near it. Be honest when was the last time any alliance got to the inner keep of y'alls last emp keep during primetime hours? The last time I remember is about three weeks ago and the entire attacking alliance froze.

That has less to do with lag and more to do with coordination. We are more likely to let all of our home keeps fall to save the last emp keep.

And from the last time I logged in, we only had Emp for the last day and a half. So obviously we had to lose emp during those 2 weeks.

jaws343

No: this has never been an exploit even with the current issues.

And for what it's worth, we lost Chalman a number of times over the weekend but managed to hold BRK and vice versa.

usmguy1234

Yes: considering the currently issues this is an exploit.

jaws343 wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

The issue is both sides can be impacted by a freeze/crash.

I was fighting in front of Chalman, holding the last emp keep for EP on Xbox NA Vivec over the weekend when a ton of the players in the area crashed. And there were maybe 15-20 of us left between both sides of the fight. And at that point it became a mad dash to kill each-other as quickly as possible before another crash happened or we lost ground in the fight.

It is definitely a jarring experience but it isn't something that should be punished. It effects both sides of a battle and can happen in favor of the defenders or the attackers depending on where they are in the fight.

It does need to be fixed. I was taking Aleswell last night and crashed, logged back in and 1 minute later crashed again, relogged and got to the back flag and then I lost control of my character for an entire minute. And during this period, my character disappeared and the screen was floating around. When I finally regained control, I couldn't see my character for around 30 minutes.

The only time I've seen ep crash is at alessia and it was only like 5 players. Chalman is literally impenetrable because you'll freeze if you get near it. Be honest when was the last time any alliance got to the inner keep of y'alls last emp keep during primetime hours? The last time I remember is about three weeks ago and the entire attacking alliance froze.

That has less to do with lag and more to do with coordination. We are more likely to let all of our home keeps fall to save the last emp keep.

And from the last time I logged in, we only had Emp for the last day and a half. So obviously we had to lose emp during those 2 weeks.

Yeah I am limited to how much I can play due to work and when I do.. It's constant zerged down by ep. It's a little disheartening to say the least.

jaws343

No: this has never been an exploit even with the current issues.

usmguy1234 wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

The issue is both sides can be impacted by a freeze/crash.

I was fighting in front of Chalman, holding the last emp keep for EP on Xbox NA Vivec over the weekend when a ton of the players in the area crashed. And there were maybe 15-20 of us left between both sides of the fight. And at that point it became a mad dash to kill each-other as quickly as possible before another crash happened or we lost ground in the fight.

It is definitely a jarring experience but it isn't something that should be punished. It effects both sides of a battle and can happen in favor of the defenders or the attackers depending on where they are in the fight.

It does need to be fixed. I was taking Aleswell last night and crashed, logged back in and 1 minute later crashed again, relogged and got to the back flag and then I lost control of my character for an entire minute. And during this period, my character disappeared and the screen was floating around. When I finally regained control, I couldn't see my character for around 30 minutes.

The only time I've seen ep crash is at alessia and it was only like 5 players. Chalman is literally impenetrable because you'll freeze if you get near it. Be honest when was the last time any alliance got to the inner keep of y'alls last emp keep during primetime hours? The last time I remember is about three weeks ago and the entire attacking alliance froze.

That has less to do with lag and more to do with coordination. We are more likely to let all of our home keeps fall to save the last emp keep.

And from the last time I logged in, we only had Emp for the last day and a half. So obviously we had to lose emp during those 2 weeks.

Yeah I am limited to how much I can play due to work and when I do.. It's constant zerged down by ep. It's a little disheartening to say the least.

And I think that limited perspective really clouds judgement on this issue. All three factions have times during the day, week, campaign, where they are the overwhelming force against the other factions. It isn't always just EP. There are times when DC and AD are doing the exact same things. All three factions stack their last emp keep. All three factions gate the weaker faction. All three factions zerg the map. All three factions do everything.

People really need to get over this AD/EP/DC does X nonsense. Everyone does everything on every faction.

usmguy1234

Yes: considering the currently issues this is an exploit.

jaws343 wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

The issue is both sides can be impacted by a freeze/crash.

I was fighting in front of Chalman, holding the last emp keep for EP on Xbox NA Vivec over the weekend when a ton of the players in the area crashed. And there were maybe 15-20 of us left between both sides of the fight. And at that point it became a mad dash to kill each-other as quickly as possible before another crash happened or we lost ground in the fight.

It is definitely a jarring experience but it isn't something that should be punished. It effects both sides of a battle and can happen in favor of the defenders or the attackers depending on where they are in the fight.

It does need to be fixed. I was taking Aleswell last night and crashed, logged back in and 1 minute later crashed again, relogged and got to the back flag and then I lost control of my character for an entire minute. And during this period, my character disappeared and the screen was floating around. When I finally regained control, I couldn't see my character for around 30 minutes.

The only time I've seen ep crash is at alessia and it was only like 5 players. Chalman is literally impenetrable because you'll freeze if you get near it. Be honest when was the last time any alliance got to the inner keep of y'alls last emp keep during primetime hours? The last time I remember is about three weeks ago and the entire attacking alliance froze.

That has less to do with lag and more to do with coordination. We are more likely to let all of our home keeps fall to save the last emp keep.

And from the last time I logged in, we only had Emp for the last day and a half. So obviously we had to lose emp during those 2 weeks.

Yeah I am limited to how much I can play due to work and when I do.. It's constant zerged down by ep. It's a little disheartening to say the least.

And I think that limited perspective really clouds judgement on this issue. All three factions have times during the day, week, campaign, where they are the overwhelming force against the other factions. It isn't always just EP. There are times when DC and AD are doing the exact same things. All three factions stack their last emp keep. All three factions gate the weaker faction. All three factions zerg the map. All three factions do everything.

People really need to get over this AD/EP/DC does X nonsense. Everyone does everything on every faction.

I mean it's hard to when every time you play the map is > 50 percent red. On weekdays I'd say it's > 80% red. It's easy to say it's a perception thing when you are on the winning side. Come play DC or AD during primetime and see how that feels. I bet you'd get perspective really quick.

ATomiX96

No: this has never been an exploit even with the current issues.

this means that the game is poorly optimized / too low server ressources used on pvp, as there are other games managing larger groups of people without any latency or fps issues
Gotta hope for a overhaul that will realisticly never come.

jaws343

No: this has never been an exploit even with the current issues.

Again. It is a cycle. Right now EP is on top. And last month DC was running rampant. I mean, on Saturday EP at one point had a total of 2 keeps left. My perspective is as open as it can be because I understand that this happens for all factions. And primetime is hardly a spot to point to about imbalance. If all 3 factions are pop locked it is the other two factions fault for not playing the map better.

Also, there is a reason EP is actually winning the campaign by 20k points right now. Mainly because they are benefitting greatly from the new low pop bonus. Because outside of prime time EP is run over.

Sandman929

No: this has never been an exploit even with the current issues.

EP is on top when Cyrodiil barely works. I guess when half the server drops it helps to have those extra numbers that survived.

Datthaw

No: this has never been an exploit even with the current issues.

As crappy as this is, it's totally unbannable. It's almost similar to the sniper bug where you get popped by like 3 instantly because of latency. As much *** as it is, they don't know and can't predict when it gonna happen.

We still should ban the snipe spammer just cuz

p00tx

No: this has never been an exploit even with the current issues.

I'd like to be able to point an angry finger at EP right now because it feels better than this impotent frustration I feel toward Zos for not handling their issues, but I can't. DC isn't even in the running right now because we do this every time a certain multi-faction someone runs for emp spot in our campaign. I get it, because I'm a hardcore faction loyalist too, but we're only shooting ourselves in the foot. The only ones who lose out are those in DC.

The other issue plaguing us right now is this weird new elitist trend of denigrating anyone who has friends and plays in a group. The "cool kids" run solo because that's the "coolest thing ever"...in a game designed to be played in groups. Until we stop trying to encourage/enforce counter-intuitive behaviors among our ranks and refuse to coordinate because of some misplaced sense of pride, we're going to keep losing. Period.

DeadlyRecluse

Other: please explain

There have been times where guilds and groups have used server instability as an exploit (if you remember raids stacking healing springs at alliance gates, you know what I'm talking about).

Lots of people showing up at the obvious big fight location (the last emp keep) isn't really the same thing. It's unavoidable, and the fact that it brings the game to a stuttering halt isn't the players' fault for wanting to be a part of the huge battle.

Leandor

Other: please explain

Other: Ahahahahahahahahahha. Hahahaha.

Wait, there's more:

Ahahahahahahahahaha.

Ok, done.

Jimmy_The_Fixer

Maybe I'll report them once I stop laughing, but I guess I'd have to stop laughing at some point.

thankyourat

At one point and time yesterday the AD Zerg stretched from sejanus to brk it was about 60 AD rushing to the BRK front door. So it's not just EP. The servers suck so if you are traveling 60 strong to a keep you can most certainly expect to freeze and get dc'd