SUGGESTION FOR: Frost/Ice Staff

TheInfernalRage

@ZOS_GinaBruno

I have some concern about the frost/ice staff. I do not know who decided that this staff should be for tanking given that both the flame/fire and lightning staves are all for damage. And for tanking, the frost/ice staff is not that efficient because it takes long to taunt using a heavy attack. And if one decides to use the staff for a DPS build, one does not get any passive at all. In relation to all of these, I suggest the following:

TRI-FOCUS (passive): Remove the taunting heavy attack condition and instead increases Frost/Ice damage for 3% for 3s.
DESTRUCTIVE TOUCH: Its morph Destructive Reach should taunt the enemy for 8s instead of immobilizing the enemy.
ANCIENT KNOWLEDGE (passive): This passive should also increase Frost/Ice damage for 5%.

Tannus15

Yeah, that's pretty much what anyone who thinks about frost staff at all has been saying for ages.

move the taunt / tanking functionality to destructive touch. This would even make master destro frost staffs BiS for frost staff tanking.

this would also make a frost staff a viable option for dps instead of the messed up confusion that it currently is.

DenMoria

No Taunting! I'm a mage! I'm squishy! I like immobilizing people and freezing them in to dust! Again - NO TAUNTING!

TheInfernalRage wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

I have some concern about the frost/ice staff. I do not know who decided that this staff should be for tanking given that both the flame/fire and lightning staves are all for damage. And for tanking, the frost/ice staff is not that efficient because it takes long to taunt using a heavy attack. And if one decides to use the staff for a DPS build, one does not get any passive at all. In relation to all of these, I suggest the following:

TRI-FOCUS (passive): Remove the taunting heavy attack condition and instead increases Frost/Ice damage for 3% for 3s.
DESTRUCTIVE TOUCH: Its morph Destructive Reach should taunt the enemy for 8s instead of immobilizing the enemy.
ANCIENT KNOWLEDGE (passive): This passive should also increase Frost/Ice damage for 5%.

cbaudersub17_ESO

You could just skip putting points in Tri Focus.

LeHarrt91

cbaudersub17_ESO wrote: »

You could just skip putting points in Tri Focus.

But if you are a magicka dps using double destro you dont get any benefit if you have a Flame or Shock staff on your other bar.

DanteYoda

They need to remove the taunt and add 8% damage.. I think its 8% on the others..

Then add a taunt or two to warden ice skills somewhere. So they can keep their tank status but not be pigeon holed into it.

cbaudersub17_ESO

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

cbaudersub17_ESO wrote: »

You could just skip putting points in Tri Focus.

But if you are a magicka dps using double destro you dont get any benefit if you have a Flame or Shock staff on your other bar.

Then don't heavy attack with the frost staff.

MagLi

cbaudersub17_ESO wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

cbaudersub17_ESO wrote: »

You could just skip putting points in Tri Focus.

But if you are a magicka dps using double destro you dont get any benefit if you have a Flame or Shock staff on your other bar.

Then don't heavy attack with the frost staff.

But then what's the point of having the taunt in its heavy attack if it mean everyone should just stop using it? Hence this post.

Rygonix

I'm fairly sure the frost staff change that happened in Morrowind was to compliment the whole "Winter's Embrace Wardens are magicka tanks that use ice staves". That fell flat on its face and I hope ZoS backtracks and puts some of these suggestions in instead.

DanteYoda

cbaudersub17_ESO wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

cbaudersub17_ESO wrote: »

You could just skip putting points in Tri Focus.

But if you are a magicka dps using double destro you dont get any benefit if you have a Flame or Shock staff on your other bar.

Then don't heavy attack with the frost staff.

How are you suppose to get your magicka back in combat?

Rygonix wrote: »

I'm fairly sure the frost staff change that happened in Morrowind was to compliment the whole "Winter's Embrace Wardens are magicka tanks that use ice staves". That fell flat on its face and I hope ZoS backtracks and puts some of these suggestions in instead.

That would been fine if they'd sped up the heavy attack on Ice staves but it would also make them overpowered..

cbaudersub17_ESO

MagLi wrote: »

cbaudersub17_ESO wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

cbaudersub17_ESO wrote: »

You could just skip putting points in Tri Focus.

But if you are a magicka dps using double destro you dont get any benefit if you have a Flame or Shock staff on your other bar.

Then don't heavy attack with the frost staff.

But then what's the point of having the taunt in its heavy attack if it mean everyone should just stop using it? Hence this post.

Just spit balling here, but frost staff tanking? Which is a thing and actually pretty fun on some builds.

One can build around the benefits of the mobility debuffs of the frost staff and avoid heavy attacking...if one really wanted to.

In solo PvE and PvP, who cares?!

In group PvE and as strictly dps, better options exist for you role...setting aside potential efficiency issues introduced by applying temporary CC immunity to your target(s) depending on group composition.

Wait until frost staff healing, or any weapon healing, becomes a thing with the psijic skill line.

Tannus15

Taunt on heavy attack literally makes no sense. You can't use it while blocking and it takes too long and can be interrupted.

Every frost tank I know just uses inner fire.

If the taunt and major breech is moved to the frost version of destructive touch or then it'll feel like a proper tanking skill line while opening up tri focus to have a useful passive. Like, 10% more damage to "chilled" enemies.

That would be soooo much better.

Destructive touch > replace the dot taunt and breech. Keep initial damage. While a Frost Staff is equipped, blocking cost Magicka instead of Stamina

Destructive Clench > add fracture
Destructive Reach > increased range

Tri focus -> 5% / 10% more damage to chilled enemies.

I honestly don't care about the shield on heavy attack. Take it or leave it, it's too small a damage shield to really matter anyway.

sword and shield still have battle field mobility and defensive stance to differentiate between the 2 styles.

cbaudersub17_ESO

DanteYoda wrote: »

cbaudersub17_ESO wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

cbaudersub17_ESO wrote: »

You could just skip putting points in Tri Focus.

But if you are a magicka dps using double destro you dont get any benefit if you have a Flame or Shock staff on your other bar.

Then don't heavy attack with the frost staff.

How are you suppose to get your magicka back in combat?

Below level 15? Destruction staff below level 20? Ignore alchemy and its ingredients or too poor to buy stuff? Ignore the Psijic Order skills at Rank 8? Ignore the Mages Guild skills at Rank 8?...




Good to know that the tanker code forbids use of more than one taunt and S/B on either back bar or front bar while donning a frost staff. I guess I will just wedge that toothpick to hold my right mouse button down since actively engaging and reading the fight is just plain wrong.

A zero cost, ranged, magic-returning 15-second taunt that provides a shield that supports health return and opens the door for using the magica pool for blocking just plain sucks as a potential tool for a tanker.

werzui

Why not just create an Alteration Staff Skilltree for tanking and rework Froststaff back into dealing damage?!
I mean the Froststaff is part of the DESTRUCTION-Staff skilltree, Destruction means damage right?!

So every Destro Staff has its own Theme:

Fire Staff = Single Target Damage

Shock Staff = AoE Damage

Frost Staff = ??? => maybe a crit Theme (like the Iceheart set), adding more crit damage or chance on chilled Enemys or an Penetration theme like chilled Enemys have reduced resistance overtime ?!

the Damage Shield on Heavy Attacks may be fine to keep but what about faster Heavy Attacks for froststaves if you have the Passive, making it more of a sustain Weapon in exchange for raw Damage.

just my Feels about Frost Staves, no hate pls

DocFrost72

I don't mind the taunt moving, but those other two passives benefit my tank heavily and are really nice. I'd like to see magicka blocking and block cost/amount passives stay.

PlagueSD

cbaudersub17_ESO wrote: »

A zero cost, ranged, magic-returning 15-second taunt that provides a shield that supports health return and opens the door for using the magica pool for blocking just plain sucks as a potential tool for a tanker.

Exactly. Niche fight for frost staff tank is Lord Warden. Since I need my stamina for dodging, and sprinting to that portal that happens to be on the OTHER SIDE, I use my frost staff exclusively on that fight to block the "gattling gun" attack. Little known fact that separates the good tanks from the bad. You can block that attack when another player is targeted by standing between the boss and them. That way your healer/magicka dps doesn't have to spend their limited stam pool blocking that attack. Also, heavy attack is a good way to figure out where he teleported to. Once you start your heavy attack with him targeted, once he teleports, the projectile with fire off in the direction the boss is.

TheInfernalRage

I actually got it to work with my Warden. And now I'm building a DK Frost Staff tank.

Onefrkncrzypope

Frost staff was changed to tanking to answer the niche players calling for an ability to magic tank. Sorry but ice damage is also niche so there really isn't a major reason to revert the change. I understand that people want ice damage but there is RN only one class that's truly a element mage which is the mDK. Even with the staff change, Ice passive would have to be OP to even compete with the current flame staff damage.

emilyhyoyeon

Destruction magic isn't for tanking so anything to make frost destruction magic into damage again would be great

Kadoin

Raise the damage so you can have damage and CC, the exact thing ZOS is nerfing every patch and exactly why Mag Warden is pathetic? Yeah, not gonna happen.

ankeor

Or...

TRI-FOCUS (passive): Fully-charged Frost Heavy Attack generate 100% more magicka
So it can be a option if you have sustain issues

ANCIENT KNOWLEDGE (passive): Frost Staff increases your damage done with damage over time abilities by 8%
Unlike other staves Tri-Focus give you any damage do not give frost staff any damage, this bonus boosts all of your dots. Single target or aoe.