A list of things that should be nerfed or "adjusted".

Knowledge

• Sloads
• Zaan
• Durok's Bane
• Rune Cage
• Shield stacking (There should be some penalty or the largest shield should overwrite all others - only applying to shields you put up.)
• Shield Breaker
• Werewolf Hide
• Stamina Warden
• Stamina Nightblade

VaranisArano

I guess we needed another thread on this?

Grimhallow

Werewolf hide?

...and what aspects of stam warden and stam nightblade? What makes nerfing them a better idea than buffing other classes?

arkansas_ESO

i think this might be the first "nerf ww hide" thread i've ever seen on the forums

Knowledge

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

i think this might be the first "nerf ww hide" thread i've ever seen on the forums

The ultimate gain is a little bit too extreme.

Knowledge

Grimick wrote: »

Werewolf hide?

...and what aspects of stam warden and stam nightblade? What makes nerfing them a better idea than buffing other classes?

Nightblade should have a 7 - 10 second recloak timer.

Warden needs its defenses turned down.

Marabornwingrion

Knowledge wrote: »

• Sloads
• Zaan
• Durok's Bane
• Rune Cage
• Shield stacking (There should be some penalty or the largest shield should overwrite all others - only applying to shields you put up.)
• Shield Breaker
• Werewolf Hide
• Stamina Warden
• Stamina Nightblade

+ Knowledge's bait threads

Koolio

DW Magic Classes= Buff

Knowledge

Astrid_V wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

• Sloads
• Zaan
• Durok's Bane
• Rune Cage
• Shield stacking (There should be some penalty or the largest shield should overwrite all others - only applying to shields you put up.)
• Shield Breaker
• Werewolf Hide
• Stamina Warden
• Stamina Nightblade

+ Knowledge's bait threads

Why is it that anything you disagree with is a "click bait" thread?

Can't you just formulate an argument against the opinion if you disagree instead of resorting to derailment?

This thread has relevant information regarding what most of the community thinks needs to be adjusted.

thankyourat

Engine guardian is crazy op it procs too much and players can hide behind it. Harness Magicka is too op nerf the sustain it provides. Lol I think I may be the only one complaining about engine guardian

Koolio

thankyourat wrote: »

Engine guardian is crazy op it procs too much and players can hide behind it. Harness Magicka is too op nerf the sustain it provides. Lol I think I may be the only one complaining about engine guardian

It should definitely disappear quicker if you bash it. It still stays out for the full duration. Also can be shielded by Hardened Ward

Ankael07

Knowledge wrote: »

Astrid_V wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

• Sloads
• Zaan
• Durok's Bane
• Rune Cage
• Shield stacking (There should be some penalty or the largest shield should overwrite all others - only applying to shields you put up.)
• Shield Breaker
• Werewolf Hide
• Stamina Warden
• Stamina Nightblade

+ Knowledge's bait threads

Why is it that anything you disagree with is a "click bait" thread?

Can't you just formulate an argument against the opinion if you disagree instead of resorting to derailment?

This thread has relevant information regarding what most of the community thinks needs to be adjusted.

People assume this is a bait thread because you always gather hot topics of the time and re-post them in a single place for people to argue in the comments.

Not even explaining as to why a certain skill/set/class should be nerfed or even which aspect of it.

Oh and for such a forum name you sure lack the knowledge about the game (it was my turn)

Knowledge

Ankael07 wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

Astrid_V wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

• Sloads
• Zaan
• Durok's Bane
• Rune Cage
• Shield stacking (There should be some penalty or the largest shield should overwrite all others - only applying to shields you put up.)
• Shield Breaker
• Werewolf Hide
• Stamina Warden
• Stamina Nightblade

+ Knowledge's bait threads

Why is it that anything you disagree with is a "click bait" thread?

Can't you just formulate an argument against the opinion if you disagree instead of resorting to derailment?

This thread has relevant information regarding what most of the community thinks needs to be adjusted.

People assume this is a bait thread because you always gather hot topics of the time and re-post them in a single place for people to argue in the comments.

Not even explaining as to why a certain skill/set/class should be nerfed or even which aspect of it.

Oh and for such a forum name you sure lack the knowledge about the game (it was my turn)

I think you're suggesting I post about irrelevant topics rather than relevant(hot topics).

I'm not sure what you mean by it's your turn but you're entitled to your opinion regarding my knowledge of the game. I have plenty of people that I speak to on a regular basis that think I have a lot of good ideas and knowledge.

Waffennacht

To change shield stacking you'd definitely have to revert the old shield Nerfs, i.e. time limit and cost imo

Metemsycosis

@Waffennacht You mean duration too I hope

TheDoomsdayMonster

Knowledge wrote: »

• Sloads
• Zaan
• Durok's Bane
• Rune Cage
• Shield stacking (There should be some penalty or the largest shield should overwrite all others - only applying to shields you put up.)
• Shield Breaker
• Werewolf Hide
• Stamina Warden
• Stamina Nightblade

Duroks and Zaan are the only two items on your list that I feel need to be toned down...

Everything else can be reasonably dealt with assuming you have a proper build...

Waffennacht

Metemsycosis wrote: »

@Waffennacht You mean duration too I hope

Duration, yeah that's the word, I said time limit cuz I drew a blank lol. But yeah duration

NBrookus

Oblivion Damage: remove from game. Covert existing sets and enchants to other forms of damage.
Rune Cage: just put the CC back on frags and back to the drawing board for RC. 41m unblockable undodgeable stun that does that much damage on a high burst damaged ranged class? Insane.
Defiles: need to be much more rare and expensive, and Duroks 2-4 set piece bonuses nerfed
Masters DW bleeds need to be given less damage that bypasses resistance, but maybe more utility or sustain as a reward for what is hugh tier gear.
Zaan and Stamwarden is overtuned, needs adjustment

Buff:
magwarden
asylum staves

Beardimus

Yawn. NERF THESE THREADS

Another cherry picked thread of hot topics covered elsewhere to farm forum points or stimulate contentious debate.

On topic. Nerf proc damage sets yes. Let weopons kill people not DLCs or proc armour. Zero point discussing here tho as covered elsewhere.

Sorc wards are only an issue for PvP noobs pr those that refuse to learn to counter.

But debate is pointless its all click bait.

White wabbit

Tell you want needs nerfing ! Zos using their time freeze skill it's killing PvP atm

Nerftheforums

Knowledge wrote: »

Grimick wrote: »

Werewolf hide?

...and what aspects of stam warden and stam nightblade? What makes nerfing them a better idea than buffing other classes?

Nightblade should have a 7 - 10 second recloak timer.

Warden needs its defenses turned down.

Right! And to be on par with other classes, shielding, blocking, and dodging should receive the same treatment! Want to dodge? Sorry, you already did it once in the last 10 seconds. You know, git gud and block with your staff this time. Wanna shield? Too bad bro, you already did it 8s ago. You should considering dodging with your 15k stam pool. To magdk, feel like blocking? Sorry, consider dodgerolling or slotting a shield you noob permablocker.

Your name is knowledge but God, you are so ignorant on some topics.

WuffyCerulei

Complaining about shield stacking in this day of age...

dave011

Knowledge wrote: »

• Sloads
• Zaan
• Durok's Bane
• Rune Cage
• Shield stacking (There should be some penalty or the largest shield should overwrite all others - only applying to shields you put up.)
• Shield Breaker
• Werewolf Hide
• Stamina Warden
• Stamina Nightblade

What OP forgot to put in was anything that can kill me so NURF EVERYTING

Vapirko

This shield stacking thing shows up a lot and I think we need to clarify this point. Without shield stacking healing ward will not work. At best healing ward is 3-5k which is one maybe two hits and it only works based on its strength after it expires after six seconds. That means it won’t heal at all unless another shield is maintained on top of it. So stopping shield stacking altogether is not an option. Secondly sorcs shield stack a lot less than most people realize, typically shield stacking is only performed to heal up or as a last ditch attempt when you’re heavily on the defense at which point it rarely does any good unless you’re playing against people who don’t know how to properly finish the job. Sorcs aren’t just running around shield stacking willy nilly, at least not the good ones that you have to worry about s Why? Because shields are expensive and in most cases outside of protecting healing ward or being heavily out gunned, you don’t need to shield stack. So at best you could limit shields to two at a time for the sake of healing ward working at all, but guess what a few noob sorcs will go down a little easier than they already do and it won’t affect the ones who know what they’re doing. However if you’d like to change healing ward to andirect burst heal id be happy to give up shield stacking altogether.

Elwendryll

Knowledge wrote: »

Why is it that anything you disagree with is a "click bait" thread?

Can't you just formulate an argument against the opinion if you disagree instead of resorting to derailment?

This thread has relevant information regarding what most of the community thinks needs to be adjusted.

In my humble and honest opinion. The forums are far, far, far away from depicting what the largest part of the community thinks about any subject whatsoever.

About what you mentionned:
Sload: It will get adjusted. As a stamsorc myself, I didn't find it particularly overwhelming (as the target), but I guess the main problem is about getting out of cloak the NBs, providing a way to deal oblivion damages is fine, it's necessary to counter high survivability builds, maybe the way it is applied, and how it interacts with players should be changed. I don't have enough experience with this to provide any relevant opinion.

Zaan: I didn't noticed it myself in PvP. I can't provide any relevant opinion based upon my experience, but I guess the issue here is mainly for classes lacking mobility.

Durok's bane: This set is necessary in my opinion. It applies Major defile, it isn't a raw healing reduction, so you can't stack it with any other Major Defile source. Some particular builds would be unkillable without reliable ways to apply this debuff. I can see how it can be annoying paired with any dot.

Rune cage: I personnaly like this skill, as a stamina player, that's a magicka stun that goes through block. Some people are asking for a revert and an addition of a stun on the crystal fragment. I personnaly wouldn't mind a reduction in range, a removal of the damage portion for something else, a ressource change to stamina, or a delay in the application of the stun, or even all of this at once. But this particular skill is very interesting, because it is an "utility stun", and it's not tied to a damage skill. I really liked the old version, as I would stack dots and spam Flurry (and morphs) on my target. Currently, the only counter is Immovable. I totally understand why people complain about that, but if any change occurs on this skill, I hope it will take into account the sorcerer class as a whole, and not only the magicka builds, with the Mages' fury + daedric curse + meteor combo. In my opinion, the "cannot be blocked or dodged" portion should stay anyway, with the instant cast, as petrify does the same thing anyway, and aspect of terror bypasses block too. About the duration, in my opinion, if you're out of ressources and can't break free, you're dead, regardless of the duration, as long as it's more than 2 seconds. My personal desire is that I don't want to see its fonctionnality change, I want my target to be locked down reliably when I press my ability.


Shield Stacking and Shield Breaker: So, you suggest that Shield stacking should be nerfed, or adjusted, and at the same time, you suggest that a set that's designed to counter shield stacking (and only shield stacking) should be nerfed too. I'm kind of confused. I personnaly found Shield Breaker to be underwhelming.

Werewolf Hide: Nothing to say, I've neither seen someone use it, nor complain about it.

Stamina warden and stamina nightblade: Could you specify what's unbalanced about these classes? It would me more relevant to only list sets, buffs, debuffs, or abilities, in my opinion.

Conclusion: I think most of the exasperation about the elements of this list stem from their frequent use by a lot of player, more than their actual unbalance. It happens every major update. It becomes hard for people like me to figure out if it's justified or not. Anyway. I may be called a fanboy or anything related, but I trust ZOS, as they have the raw objective data, and they're doing a real effort to balance the game by taking the feedbacks into account. (By feedback, I not only mean the explicit expression of the players, but also the data generated by us while playing). Unfortunately, what is balanced, and what feels balanced for the players are not exactly the same things. After multiple iterations, eventually, the balance will be restored! Until something new appears in the title of half the new forum threads.


TL;DR: I love Rune cage. People may be overreacting. I trust Zos, keep providing them constructive feedbacks.

Grimhallow

Knowledge wrote: »

Nightblade should have a 7 - 10 second recloak timer.

I shot my water out my nose*

10 Seconds? When you often have to cloak spam up to three times for cloak to even work at all?

This would only be even a little viable if

A. Nothing broke cloak.
B. There was no lag.

bardx86

NBrookus wrote: »

Oblivion Damage: remove from game. Covert existing sets and enchants to other forms of damage.
Rune Cage: just put the CC back on frags and back to the drawing board for RC. 41m unblockable undodgeable stun that does that much damage on a high burst damaged ranged class? Insane.
Defiles: need to be much more rare and expensive, and Duroks 2-4 set piece bonuses nerfed
Masters DW bleeds need to be given less damage that bypasses resistance, but maybe more utility or sustain as a reward for what is hugh tier gear.
Zaan and Stamwarden is overtuned, needs adjustment

Buff:
magwarden
asylum staves

You can't just revert frags to having a CC. Damage would have to be buffed 30% as frags can no longer be empowered by might of the guild. Travel time should be reduced as well.

idk

Lists are easy make. It is just as easy to complain because something annoys you as a player but that is also not sufficient for a nerf.

Please share you knowledge with us to demonstrate a basis for your thread.

bardx86

Vapirko wrote: »

This shield stacking thing shows up a lot and I think we need to clarify this point. Without shield stacking healing ward will not work. At best healing ward is 3-5k which is one maybe two hits and it only works based on its strength after it expires after six seconds. That means it won’t heal at all unless another shield is maintained on top of it. So stopping shield stacking altogether is not an option. Secondly sorcs shield stack a lot less than most people realize, typically shield stacking is only performed to heal up or as a last ditch attempt when you’re heavily on the defense at which point it rarely does any good unless you’re playing against people who don’t know how to properly finish the job. Sorcs aren’t just running around shield stacking willy nilly, at least not the good ones that you have to worry about s Why? Because shields are expensive and in most cases outside of protecting healing ward or being heavily out gunned, you don’t need to shield stack. So at best you could limit shields to two at a time for the sake of healing ward working at all, but guess what a few noob sorcs will go down a little easier than they already do and it won’t affect the ones who know what they’re doing. However if you’d like to change healing ward to andirect burst heal id be happy to give up shield stacking altogether.

It goes deeper than this, which is correct btw. If shield stacking is removed then dampen magic is going to have to be reworked as the skill would be useless. The whole argument against shield stacking is silly to me anyhow. Its strong sure but anyone who has PVP'ed long enough can deal with shields.

TheDoomsdayMonster

Elwendryll wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

Why is it that anything you disagree with is a "click bait" thread?

Can't you just formulate an argument against the opinion if you disagree instead of resorting to derailment?

This thread has relevant information regarding what most of the community thinks needs to be adjusted.

Durok's bane: This set is necessary in my opinion. It applies Major defile, it isn't a raw healing reduction, so you can't stack it with any other Major Defile source. Some particular builds would be unkillable without reliable ways to apply this debuff. I can see how it can be annoying paired with any dot.

I fully agree with you that Major Defile is necessary in the current game as some builds would be truly unkillable 1v1 without it...

The issue with Duroks (IMHO) is that its way too easy to proc (and reapply) for a Debuff as powerful as it is...

I feel that the either the proc conditions and/or cooldown between procs should be toned down...

Thunderknuckles

I'm running the "cheese meta" of Durok's and 7th Legion right now and honestly, Knowledge, I'm not destroying crowds of opponents. I haven't upgraded his gear to Legendary (yet), but it really doesn't seem to be causing much havoc amongst the zergs in Cyro.