Night Capping ... lets talk

Springt-Über-Zwerge

So on Pc EU the Aldmeri Dominion is winning Vivec for months now by far because they take the whole map every night while having near 0 resistance.
ZOS something has to be done because besides the lag this is one of the main reasons pvp is so frustrating atm.

A few ideas came to my mind how to solve this problem:

- Cap the population for each alliance at one bar higher than the lowest alliance. This would prevent people from joining just one alliance and overrun the others.

- Reset the whole map at 8am. Night capping could still be a thing but it wouldn't be as frustrating to log in every day.

- Empower the guards at low pop alliances.

- Remove the buffs from scrolls & EMP buffs for the whole alliance. Give other rewards for taking the Scrolls

BohnT

Another attempt could be that keeps that you hold longer than x hours, without them being sieged, don't grant any points to the campaign score with home keeps being an exception.

This wouldn't fix morning cap all together but it'll make it harder as the morning cappers would have to manage their keeps, which then prevents that they just log in before going to work and lean back for the rest of the day.


Also nerf Scrolls influence on the score.
1 scroll is worth: Sejanus, BRK+ resources, bleakers and Chalman + resources

I posted some Screenshots in the Vivec EU thread some days ago which showed exactly how ridiculously unbalanced the scrolls are, EP held about 60% of the map but no scrolls and it was only a few points ahead of AD that had scrolls but only few keeps at this point

leepalmer95

Or just stop points counting at like 1am to 8am.

LeHarrt91

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Or just stop points counting at like 1am to 8am.

But as its a game that is played across the world and all different time zones... it will be someones prime time.

Dreyloch

Im sorry, but ya lost me at PC EU.. =(

BohnT

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Or just stop points counting at like 1am to 8am.

Points are made from 8am to 6pm, the emp always gets throned at about the same time (8 am CEST)
and isn't dethroned until early evening or later.
It's rather unusual to have an emp crowned earlier unless there is some back and forth capping done by players relogging

leepalmer95

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Or just stop points counting at like 1am to 8am.

But as its a game that is played across the world and all different time zones... it will be someones prime time.

I suppose but the vast majority should be around the time zone of the actual server.

Honestly is there actually any pvp at those hours anyway?

newtinmpls

So is there a time zone where no one actually lives?

amir412

What makes u think they will change any tiny bit related to cyrodill?
THEY DONT CARE. ZO$$ just milking money until this game will die.

Ackwalan

So whose 8am time zone should they use? England, Germany perhaps Australia?

leepalmer95

Ackwalan wrote: »

So whose 8am time zone should they use? England, Germany perhaps Australia?

Well if it's eu use GMT or around that time does it really matter it's like 1-2 hours difference between them all.

LeHarrt91

Ackwalan wrote: »

So whose 8am time zone should they use? England, Germany perhaps Australia?

I vote Australia....

White wabbit

So if some work different hours than most and that is their game time you are now going to punish them , this is something I can't see getting a fix or answer

Etaniel

White wabbit wrote: »

So if some work different hours than most and that is their game time you are now going to punish them , this is something I can't see getting a fix or answer

Theoretically you are right, but in reality it just doesn't work like that.

I'm throwing random numbers but I'm pretty sure 80% of the pvp population shares the same prime time which is something between 7 and 11 pm German time.
The other 20 % that plays when it's night/morning for the rest of the server are players that decided to put half the pop in one faction on vivec (AD) and half the pop on another faction but on another campaign (I think shor is capped blue every day no? Or did that change?)

So these people aren't getting any pvp anyways, they're pvdooring, and that's a choice they made.

BohnT

Etaniel wrote: »

White wabbit wrote: »

So if some work different hours than most and that is their game time you are now going to punish them , this is something I can't see getting a fix or answer

Theoretically you are right, but in reality it just doesn't work like that.

I'm throwing random numbers but I'm pretty sure 80% of the pvp population shares the same prime time which is something between 7 and 11 pm German time.
The other 20 % that plays when it's night/morning for the rest of the server are players that decided to put half the pop in one faction on vivec (AD) and half the pop on another faction but on another campaign (I think shor is capped blue every day no? Or did that change?)

So these people aren't getting any pvp anyways, they're pvdooring, and that's a choice they made.

Shor is still blue but AD started few months ago to also do some morning cap on Sotha which won them the last 2-3 campaigns with ease.

Also it's commonly known who's responsible for the morning cap, it's not players that can only play in the morning they choose to do so to ruin the campaign for everyone else.

Qbiken

BohnT wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

White wabbit wrote: »

So if some work different hours than most and that is their game time you are now going to punish them , this is something I can't see getting a fix or answer

Theoretically you are right, but in reality it just doesn't work like that.

I'm throwing random numbers but I'm pretty sure 80% of the pvp population shares the same prime time which is something between 7 and 11 pm German time.
The other 20 % that plays when it's night/morning for the rest of the server are players that decided to put half the pop in one faction on vivec (AD) and half the pop on another faction but on another campaign (I think shor is capped blue every day no? Or did that change?)

So these people aren't getting any pvp anyways, they're pvdooring, and that's a choice they made.

Shor is still blue but AD started few months ago to also do some morning cap on Sotha which won them the last 2-3 campaigns with ease.

Also it's commonly known who's responsible for the morning cap, it's not players that can only play in the morning they choose to do so to ruin the campaign for everyone else.

While I don´t support the morning cap, it´s nice to see some on Shor (PC/EU) to be honest. Has been blue for too long.....If we now only could get rid of the emptrading/selling on Shor that would be noice....

IiIHusHIiI

Hmmm i think AD should wait you all to be online ;D , Dude its just a game and you need to know that some ppl are not all from EU Region the game have players from Asia , US , Middle east , Russian all over the world , So Night day thing is not good to talk about .

and why you didn't talk about 2 alliances VS 1 if you r talking about the pup Bars lol

Turelus

Ackwalan wrote: »

So whose 8am time zone should they use? England, Germany perhaps Australia?

Then we also forget about the NA and SEA/ANZ players who play on EU because of friends.

Honestly the only way they're going to truly fix it in a fair way is to have a global cyrodiil where all timezones are logged in, however people will hate the latency (it has to be hosted somewhere which won't work for everyone) and it already suffers from a lot of performance issues.

I had thought they could try to get some kind of reinforcement system like EVE Online has for conquerable assets but not sure they can just steal that system and even if they did making it work and retaining content to do whilst timers tick down.

The other thought would be allow the guilds which own them to choose a time period (6 hour slot) where the keep can't be taken. This means you could set 00:00-06:00 for your guilds primary timezone to have your keeps immune to damage (let's say they have powerful magic shields). There are plenty of abuse systems for this however like stopping keeps being valrable during peak times, troll guilds taking keeps etc.

ZOS could also disable point scoring from 00:00 - 08:00* meaning that whilst keeps can be captured they wouldn't be earning points outside of expected gaming hours. Night capping can happen but they shouldn't get the points until a time when people are back online and can take things back.
You could go further by locking scroll positions during this time as well.

* best time zones would be the central times for each region, CET/CEST for EU and either central NA or west coast (more ANZ friendly)

White wabbit

Turelus wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

So whose 8am time zone should they use? England, Germany perhaps Australia?

Then we also forget about the NA and SEA/ANZ players who play on EU because of friends.

Honestly the only way they're going to truly fix it in a fair way is to have a global cyrodiil where all timezones are logged in, however people will hate the latency (it has to be hosted somewhere which won't work for everyone) and it already suffers from a lot of performance issues.

I had thought they could try to get some kind of reinforcement system like EVE Online has for conquerable assets but not sure they can just steal that system and even if they did making it work and retaining content to do whilst timers tick down.

The other thought would be allow the guilds which own them to choose a time period (6 hour slot) where the keep can't be taken. This means you could set 00:00-06:00 for your guilds primary timezone to have your keeps immune to damage (let's say they have powerful magic shields). There are plenty of abuse systems for this however like stopping keeps being valrable during peak times, troll guilds taking keeps etc.

ZOS could also disable point scoring from 00:00 - 08:00* meaning that whilst keeps can be captured they wouldn't be earning points outside of expected gaming hours. Night capping can happen but they shouldn't get the points until a time when people are back online and can take things back.
You could go further by locking scroll positions during this time as well.

* best time zones would be the central times for each region, CET/CEST for EU and either central NA or west coast (more ANZ friendly)

Sorry but I think most gaming hours would be peak time as most of us work, so I would say those that don't ruining the campaign during the day, it's something that I can't see making everyone happy as not easy fix

Enslaved

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Or just stop points counting at like 1am to 8am.

better from 3 am to 11am.

WillhelmBlack

Somebody said in another thread, increase the guards difficulty to trial hardmode when low pop. I thought that was a really good idea. Not gonna get anywhere near them scrolls if the mages have super ult gen and 1 shot.

How hard would it be to make guards scale off a factions population bar @ZOS_BrianWheeler?

Nermy

I really think there is no solution to this and to be honest, it really can all be laid at AD's feet. They have systematically destroyed Vivec EU. They don't care and you know what, neither do most others. The campaign as a AvAvA is dead. Has been for ages.

Don't blame ZoS, they have tried to balance the campaign, some ideas worked, some (the new scroll points) have failed.

One thing that does need to happen is to lock accounts into one alliance for the campaign duration, other than that it's done. PvP is slowly dying and I am already looking for the next PvP game on the horizon...

Springt-Über-Zwerge

Nermy wrote: »

I really think there is no solution to this and to be honest, it really can all be laid at AD's feet. They have systematically destroyed Vivec EU. They don't care and you know what, neither do most others. The campaign as a AvAvA is dead. Has been for ages.

Don't blame ZoS, they have tried to balance the campaign, some ideas worked, some (the new scroll points) have failed.

One thing that does need to happen is to lock accounts into one alliance for the campaign duration, other than that it's done. PvP is slowly dying and I am already looking for the next PvP game on the horizon...

This could be true. Sadly. I really like the game but if it continues like this I'm done that's why I made this post in hope things could be changed to the better.

Juhasow

On pair with "low population bonus" for lower populated alliances there should be "high population penatly" for most populated alliance if population of this alliance is much higher then other two.

High population penalty would lower the amount of points alliance get for keeping objective. More objectives dominant alliance have higher the penalty is so basicly highly populated alliance that painted all map on 1 colour would start to get very low amount of points to score. If overpopulated alliance would take more then certain high amount of objectives then they would start to get almost none points into their score.

Desired result would be that if dominant alliance would nightcap whole map and get eveyrthing while having highest population they would start to get less points into Scoring then they would get for example for keeping half of campaign objectives not taken. That would force them to think do they really want to take everything with high population but also get punished for that or they would just stop their expansion and leave some part of the map not taken to get more points into their score.

The benefit for lower populated alliances would be that if dominant alliance would control whole map it would have amount of points gained for that close to lets say 5% of what they would get for that if they wouldnt outnumber other alliances. It wouldnt be zero so it would still be some kind of benefit added to final score but not that highly noticable one so nightcapping empty keeps with zerg would be much lower portion of final score.

Enslaved

Nermy wrote: »

I really think there is no solution to this and to be honest, it really can all be laid at AD's feet. They have systematically destroyed Vivec EU. They don't care and you know what, neither do most others. The campaign as a AvAvA is dead. Has been for ages.

Don't blame ZoS, they have tried to balance the campaign, some ideas worked, some (the new scroll points) have failed.

One thing that does need to happen is to lock accounts into one alliance for the campaign duration, other than that it's done. PvP is slowly dying and I am already looking for the next PvP game on the horizon...

Don't blame the Zos, he said.
Well zos is managing the campaign and the game, lol.
They make rules and changes and everything.

Maulkin

I think Cyrodiil PvP has been beyond redemption for about 3 years now and I'm very surprised people still care about it, even more so when it comes to campaign scores and such.

Back when I cared, I made the suggestion that PvP needs campaigns that are open certain hours of the day, based on the central timezone of the server. for example

- A day campaign. Closed between 1am and 9am in the morning. Open the rest of the time
- A night campaign. Open between 1am and 9am. Closed the rest of the time.
- A prime-time campaign. Open between 6pm and 12am.

The idea was that you get a sense of continuity. If you can play only during prime-time due to work (or night time due to your location) the campaign you log in looks not too different from how you left it. It removes the incentive for people to log in and PvDoor campaigns during low-pop (night) if the reason was to affect gameplay (i.e. Emperorship etc.) during the prime-time or day-time game.

At the same time, there's always a campaign open for you to log in and PvP. And it also created a campaign to handle the extra load during prime-time. Without that campaign (currently Shor) turning to [snip] every morning because there's 15 people in it, PvDooring it.

But since that suggestion they introduced CPs and added the extra complexity of CP & No-CP campaigns and it's all gone to [snip]. PvP has been terribly managed in this game. Like really, really poorly. As I said, it's beyond redemption and it's evident in the population. We went from 5-6 active campaigns with 500 player cap per faction in the first year, to essentially 1 active campaign with 200 player cap per faction.

Nermy

Enslaved wrote: »

Nermy wrote: »

I really think there is no solution to this and to be honest, it really can all be laid at AD's feet. They have systematically destroyed Vivec EU. They don't care and you know what, neither do most others. The campaign as a AvAvA is dead. Has been for ages.

Don't blame ZoS, they have tried to balance the campaign, some ideas worked, some (the new scroll points) have failed.

One thing that does need to happen is to lock accounts into one alliance for the campaign duration, other than that it's done. PvP is slowly dying and I am already looking for the next PvP game on the horizon...

Don't blame the Zos, he said.
Well zos is managing the campaign and the game, lol.
They make rules and changes and everything.

They do manage the campaign but they don't go around fighting the NPCs in empty keeps and taking all the scrolls while there is no-one to defend them.

AD do.

AD killed the campaign, not ZoS.

Slick_007

Springt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »

So on Pc EU the Aldmeri Dominion is winning Vivec for months now by far because they take the whole map every night while having near 0 resistance.
ZOS something has to be done because besides the lag this is one of the main reasons pvp is so frustrating atm.

well excuse me if not everyone plays in the same timezone as you do, or works the same hours as you do so they sleep at different times.
Night capping IS NOT A THING. its just a bunch of rude people like yourself who demand that anyone who doesnt play at the same time they do be penalized.

You know where you can go right?

Vapirko

Hey some of us have a lot of fun off hours with like 10 people fighting on each faction over keeps. I understand night capping sucks when it’s just one faction zerging down the map. But you can’t ruin other stuff for people not on NA time. For example me and a small handful of DC had a great time fighting AD and EP, and ultimately dethroned AD and emped DC on Shor PC/NA. Was it technically a night cap? Yes. Was it a pvdoor? No. We had a super fun three way battle at roe. Honestly way better than primetime .

Nermy

Vapirko wrote: »

Hey some of us have a lot of fun off hours with like 10 people fighting on each faction over keeps. I understand night capping sucks when it’s just one faction zerging down the map. But you can’t ruin other stuff for people not on NA time. For example me and a small handful of DC had a great time fighting AD and EP, and ultimately dethroned AD and emped DC on Shor PC/NA. Was it technically a night cap? Yes. Was it a pvdoor? No. We had a super fun three way battle at roe. Honestly way better than primetime .

That's cool mate, I love those fights... What I don't like is being zerged back to our gates early in the morning. In fact, I very rarely log in that early anymore...

evoniee

There is no solution to fix the problem. Do not think the only people play on certain server is local only. Its theirs choice to play like that.