Pulling out of stealth

Amorpho

I just discovered that Sloads pulls Nigthblades out of stealth. If I hadn't retired my Stamblade earlier, I will most probably do it now since Sload has become meta, especially in BGs. Already I had to give up on Sheer-venom when I discovered that (much like Vicecannon) its proc pulled me out of cloak when it affected DKs reactive armor - two amazing sets that NOBODY uses anymore for this reason. In fact, I posted multiple times about looking at this issue over the past 2 years but nothing has ever been acknowledged by the devs. @ZOS_GinaBruno can you please at least tell us if this is how it is supposed to work? As if there weren't enough things that could pull you out of stealth! From pots, to venom; from skills like magelight and mark to aoe. Heck even a morph of Snipe! Can we please at least have a conversation about this? I'm not saying that nothing should be able to pull us out of stealth, because it is very strong tactically, but at least remove this ability from sets like Sloads and whatever the hell happens when Sheer-venom and Vicecannon proc on reactive armor.

Anyone else feels like cloak has become virtually useless?

Checkmath

This is not intended and will be fixed soon, hopefully before the next big update.

CrazYDunm3r

Checkmath wrote: »

This is not intended and will be fixed soon, hopefully before the next big update.

Sadly enough they knew this already on PTS and didn't fix it. I hope future PTS will actually mean something for people.

Amorpho

CrazYDunm3r wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

This is not intended and will be fixed soon, hopefully before the next big update.

Sadly enough they knew this already on PTS and didn't fix it. I hope future PTS will actually mean something for people.

I assume this only applies to Sloads. But what about Vicecannon and Sheer Venom?

josiahva

umm, a ton of DoTs pull nightblades out of stealth...its why I always lay a DoT on any nightblade I see(in addition to using magelight, sometimes I even pop the vamp ult as a way to keep nightblades from getting away), if you are going to hit and run, I am going to make sure you cant hide. Cowardice has its cost(yes, I know its a "valid playstyle" and the nightblade's "only defense" but I dont care, if you are going to run away once you start losing, I am going to do everything in my power to prevent it)

TequilaFire

You know I would rather have a few things that can counter cloak than have them remove or nerf cloak.

Nyladreas

TequilaFire wrote: »

You know I would rather have a few things that can counter cloak than have them remove or nerf cloak.

I'd rather have the new healing cloak not get halved in pvp. It's kinda crap for most setups unless you rock a ton of health.

The minor protection from it is crap too. Should last longer. I still use it but its kinda meh.

Ectheliontnacil

It's funny how people always complain about nightblades. Cloak isn't a guaranteed escape especially in 1vXing. If you're fighting 3 or so players, the chances of one being a sloader (or using detects/mark) are pretty high. And even without all of that, AoEs and other stuff can easily break cloak.

Cloak CAN be very good, but just as often it ends up being useless. And outside of cloak you're dead in most cases. Streak and other classes' defensive skills/passives often outperform cloak and are much more reliable.

Only in 1v1 vs someone with low mobility or no AoEs/detects/soul assault does cloak make kills very difficult. But it's ok for skills to be good against certain builds, right? Shimmering shield vs casters, scales vs casters, rune cage+curse vs roll dodging etc. Why can't nbs be good in some situations? I know they're annoying to fight but I'm tired of ppl constantly crying for this unique class to be changed.

So yeah...hope they fix the stealth detect.

redshirt_49

Always use this on my magblade to purge dots when I stealth

PlagueSD

TequilaFire wrote: »

You know I would rather have a few things that can counter cloak than have them remove or nerf cloak.

You mean like Radiant Magelight and Piercing Mark?

ezio45

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/419646/does-sloads-need-work-in-your-opinion#latest

Amorpho

josiahva wrote: »

umm, a ton of DoTs pull nightblades out of stealth...its why I always lay a DoT on any nightblade I see(in addition to using magelight, sometimes I even pop the vamp ult as a way to keep nightblades from getting away), if you are going to hit and run, I am going to make sure you cant hide. Cowardice has its cost(yes, I know its a "valid playstyle" and the nightblade's "only defense" but I dont care, if you are going to run away once you start losing, I am going to do everything in my power to prevent it)

It's not DOTs but AOE that pull nightblades out of stealth. A DK DOT will not pull me out of stealth, unless it is also AOE. In fact, the DOT does not tick any damage while I'm in stealth. Which is why Sheer Venom and Vicecannon are broken in my opinion, when it comes to stealth. Because when their damage procs on the opponent (DK's with reactive armor up) it pulls you out of stealth. I don't mind having AOEs and all sort of other skills pulling us out of stealth (even though, if you think about it, this is the only skill in the game that can be countered by SO MANY things) but I am so frustrated that Sheer Venom and Vicecannon (both of which are designed for NBs) can't be used by NBs anymore because their proc pulls us out of stealth. Again, @ZOS_GinaBruno when will you guys speak or at least acknowledge this??!!

evoniee

it make wearer cant cloak, it make the target enemy cant cloak.

SugaComa

So let me get this straight what you're asking is to be able to reliably proc damage from a set you're wearing that doesn't unstealth you ?

Feanor

PlagueSD wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

You know I would rather have a few things that can counter cloak than have them remove or nerf cloak.

You mean like Radiant Magelight and Piercing Mark?

You mean like a 12m radius that can be significantly reduced or a NB exclusive skill? The Class Representative Feedback acknowledged Cloak is either too powerful or worthless. I do hope ZOS finds how to do a middle ground.

Datthaw

Someone put it the best way ever. "Cloak is like Schrodingers cat"

DoonerSeraph

Datthaw wrote: »

Someone put it the best way ever. "Cloak is like Schrodingers cat"

Exactly, the Schrodinger's Blade

It's a very binary defense, it either works and saves you, or you are simply countered and killed.

Hetaira

SugaComa wrote: »

So let me get this straight what you're asking is to be able to reliably proc damage from a set you're wearing that doesn't unstealth you ?

This seems to be what I think the op is saying. Which really cracks me up tbh.

Amorpho

SugaComa wrote: »

So let me get this straight what you're asking is to be able to reliably proc damage from a set you're wearing that doesn't unstealth you ?

Well yes, since its proc is not intended to pull you out of stealth! Why should a dot damage tick taking place on an enemy, pull me out of stealth? It only happens with the proc of these two sets. Any other type of dot damage applied to an enemy doesn't.

IcyDeadPeople

Checkmath wrote: »

This is not intended and will be fixed soon, hopefully before the next big update.

Would be great if we get additional fixes for all the other single target DoTs/delayed damage abilities and sets bringing people out of stealth as well:

Sheer Venom
Vicecannon (possibly already fixed?)
Poison DoTs (some of these have been fixed)
Haunting Curse
Venomous Claw / Burning Embers
Elemental status effects (burning, poisoned, chilled etc)

AOEs with DoT component like acid spray, wall of elements, engulfing flames etc should certainly break stealth if you are caught within range while already stealthed, but IMO subsequent ticks should not bring you back out of stealth after the fact. For example if you are hit by AOE dot, then activate cloak or invis potion and move out of range, the 2nd tick should still cause damage but not bring you back out of stealth again

josiahva

Amorpho wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

umm, a ton of DoTs pull nightblades out of stealth...its why I always lay a DoT on any nightblade I see(in addition to using magelight, sometimes I even pop the vamp ult as a way to keep nightblades from getting away), if you are going to hit and run, I am going to make sure you cant hide. Cowardice has its cost(yes, I know its a "valid playstyle" and the nightblade's "only defense" but I dont care, if you are going to run away once you start losing, I am going to do everything in my power to prevent it)

It's not DOTs but AOE that pull nightblades out of stealth. A DK DOT will not pull me out of stealth, unless it is also AOE. In fact, the DOT does not tick any damage while I'm in stealth. Which is why Sheer Venom and Vicecannon are broken in my opinion, when it comes to stealth. Because when their damage procs on the opponent (DK's with reactive armor up) it pulls you out of stealth. I don't mind having AOEs and all sort of other skills pulling us out of stealth (even though, if you think about it, this is the only skill in the game that can be countered by SO MANY things) but I am so frustrated that Sheer Venom and Vicecannon (both of which are designed for NBs) can't be used by NBs anymore because their proc pulls us out of stealth. Again, @ZOS_GinaBruno when will you guys speak or at least acknowledge this??!!

Funny, Embers as an example consistently pulls nightblades out of stealth for me(by which I mean every tick they become momentarily visible for half a second before invisible again)...as do several other DoTs. Regardless of whether a DoT pulls you out though, it should ALWAYS tick for the damage, if its not, then cloak is indeed broken, considering the tooltip says nothing about negating damage applied.