damage shield re work (please stem the tears all ye bubble spammers out there)

Wing

start this of by saying I don't have a problem with sorc or what have you and no im not calling for a nerf but a re-design to make damage shields better for everyone (regardless of playstyle)

personally I find some of the problems stem from good and bad players, good players don't rely on shields for all of there defense and combine it with heals or mitigation or what have you. while bad players expect bubbles to save them from everything and get really flustered and mad when it does not work (oblivion damage, bleeds, certain sets, etc.)

I think this puts shields into a similar category as cloak, its amazing when it works, and hair pulling when it does not, pass / fail gameplay.
____________________________________

time for actual suggestion.

re work damage shields to eat 50% of the damage and distribute the other 50% to the player as normal (like pve mobs) the damage taken by the player receives gets all the benefits of crit and penetration.

then re allow damage shields to last a bit longer, and perhaps tweak there numbers if needed.

this removes damage shields as being a source of "healing" or end all be all defense (because its not, bad players just think it is) and like any other form of mitigation or defense will pair great with the other forms of healing and mitigation present within the game.

for instance wearing heavy armor and casting a damage shield will be viable, blocking on top as well, healing even better. all these forms of mitigation and defense work fine on their own but there real strength comes when combined.

this will also remove the mind set of "my bubbles will protect me from EVERYTHING" that better players know is not the case, and bring them into a larger fold of mitigation and defense that can be enjoyed by far more playstyles and people.
_____________________________________

I know a lot of rage and tears will flood this thread, but im hoping players can look past their own personal bias (outlook doubtful) and see how good this change would be fore the game overall.

@ZOS_Wrobel

Gprime31

nah, just make them critable...problem solved.

OGLezard

Just going to say no. Not because I main a sorc, but because shields have been gutted and are mediocre at best.

Soft/hard cc shuts me down if people dont miss their burst window.

Easily able to get around shields.

Just my opinion when I say no and why.

No tears. If they gut shields anymore then I will be forced to switch to proctard meta builds. I dont want to do that as I have only played sorc since beta up to today. Other classes I leveled just never appealed to me.

Again, just my opinion, no tears here

usmguy1234

Wing wrote: »

start this of by saying I don't have a problem with sorc or what have you and no im not calling for a nerf but a re-design to make damage shields better for everyone (regardless of playstyle)

personally I find some of the problems stem from good and bad players, good players don't rely on shields for all of there defense and combine it with heals or mitigation or what have you. while bad players expect bubbles to save them from everything and get really flustered and mad when it does not work (oblivion damage, bleeds, certain sets, etc.)

I think this puts shields into a similar category as cloak, its amazing when it works, and hair pulling when it does not, pass / fail gameplay.
____________________________________

time for actual suggestion.

re work damage shields to eat 50% of the damage and distribute the other 50% to the player as normal (like pve mobs) the damage taken by the player receives gets all the benefits of crit and penetration.

then re allow damage shields to last a bit longer, and perhaps tweak there numbers if needed.

this removes damage shields as being a source of "healing" or end all be all defense (because its not, bad players just think it is) and like any other form of mitigation or defense will pair great with the other forms of healing and mitigation present within the game.

for instance wearing heavy armor and casting a damage shield will be viable, blocking on top as well, healing even better. all these forms of mitigation and defense work fine on their own but there real strength comes when combined.

this will also remove the mind set of "my bubbles will protect me from EVERYTHING" that better players know is not the case, and bring them into a larger fold of mitigation and defense that can be enjoyed by far more playstyles and people.
_____________________________________

I know a lot of rage and tears will flood this thread, but im hoping players can look past their own personal bias (outlook doubtful) and see how good this change would be fore the game overall.

@ZOS_Wrobel

Nope. The shields I put up with a 45k magicka build melt fast enough with competent dps attacking them. My question is what type of build are you running that can't get past the shields?

THEDKEXPERIENCE

The best part is how Sorcs get singled out on this when if you put your mind to it a Magplar with a magic spec, the light armor shield and breath of life is an infinitely bigger pain.

My Magplar in Cyrodiil has over 20k resistances, 25k Health, a 10k shield and a 10k burst heal with almost 53k magic.

Gprime31

Why should scorcs get to run full damage sets and hide behind shields anyway? No other class can do that.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Gprime31 wrote: »

Why should scorcs get to run full damage sets and hide behind shields anyway? No other class can do that.

False. See the post directly above yours. It’s completely possible on a Magplar but no one else does it. Still not sure why.

Chilly-McFreeze

Thank god you couldn't add that to the rework shields post from yesterday.

Gprime31

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Gprime31 wrote: »

Why should scorcs get to run full damage sets and hide behind shields anyway? No other class can do that.

False. See the post directly above yours. It’s completely possible on a Magplar but no one else does it. Still not sure why.

Magplars are a joke this patch, easy to kill

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Gprime31 wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Gprime31 wrote: »

Why should scorcs get to run full damage sets and hide behind shields anyway? No other class can do that.

False. See the post directly above yours. It’s completely possible on a Magplar but no one else does it. Still not sure why.

Magplars are a joke this patch, easy to kill

Normal ones sure. Don’t be normal.

I’m just pointing out that you absolutely can build a Magplar to be a shield bot who deals damage. The tools are there. It’s not ZOS’s fault if people refuse to use them.

Gprime31

So... go solo with a magplar....then magdk... then magcorc.... see how you like the magplar.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Gprime31 wrote: »

So... go solo with a magplar....then magdk... then magcorc.... see how you like the magplar.

I solo a Magplar daily. I have not enough time nor inclination to use anyone else.

Didgerion

Wing wrote: »

start this of by saying I don't have a problem with sorc or what have you and no im not calling for a nerf but a re-design to make damage shields better for everyone (regardless of playstyle)

re work damage shields to eat 50% of the damage and distribute the other 50% to the player as normal (like pve mobs) the damage taken by the player receives gets all the benefits of crit and penetration.

Some classes (mag DK and mag Templars) have very usefull skills that does damage and heals at the same time also they have dedicated healing skills that work. I'm sure those classes will be properly balanced when this 50/50 mechanic is implemented.

As of me (PVP mag sorc player) - I agree! - remove shield staking mechanic completely, and give all classes reliable heals like DKs and Templars have.

also FYI mag sorcs do not have any sort of reliable heal! Good mag sorcs rely on damage shields, and as damage shields are not reliable anymore the good mag-sorcs players group with a healer now. There is no heal skill that a good mag sorc can use and go fully solo.

Didgerion

Gprime31 wrote: »

nah, just make them critable...problem solved.

FYI the crit registers on shields, but the damage is not multiplied - if you run a crit build you still get the benefits against shields.

Also please note that even shield staking sorcs go full impen. That means the crit bonus will be very low - providing the shields will inherit the player's resistance.

OGLezard

Gprime31 wrote: »

Why should scorcs get to run full damage sets and hide behind shields anyway? No other class can do that.

You are correct, other classes do way worse of things -_-

DeadlyRecluse

Didgerion wrote: »

Gprime31 wrote: »

nah, just make them critable...problem solved.

FYI the crit registers on shields, but the damage is not multiplied - if you run a crit build you still get the benefits against shields.

The biggest benefit of a crit IS the multiplied damage...and you don't get that against a shield.

OGLezard

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

Gprime31 wrote: »

nah, just make them critable...problem solved.

FYI the crit registers on shields, but the damage is not multiplied - if you run a crit build you still get the benefits against shields.

The biggest benefit of a crit IS the multiplied damage...and you don't get that against a shield.

You are aware that if someone has low shields, and you break that shield the remaining damage is carried over with no resistance right? Unless they finally changed the carry over damage and I was just never aware of the change.

As far as I know it is still like that.

DeadlyRecluse

OGLezard wrote: »

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

Gprime31 wrote: »

nah, just make them critable...problem solved.

FYI the crit registers on shields, but the damage is not multiplied - if you run a crit build you still get the benefits against shields.

The biggest benefit of a crit IS the multiplied damage...and you don't get that against a shield.

You are aware that if someone has low shields, and you break that shield the remaining damage is carried over with no resistance right? Unless they finally changed the carry over damage and I was just never aware of the change.

As far as I know it is still like that.

Yeah, absolutely, but that hardly means that you get full benefits from critting on a shield.

If I crit a 10k shield, I don't get the primary benefit of the shield, full stop.

To be clear, I don't think they SHOULD be crittable, I like the fact that different "types" of hit points behave differently in combat, but to claim that a crit on a shield still gets the benefits is a little hyperbolic.

Emmagoldman

Gprime31 wrote: »

Why should scorcs get to run full damage sets and hide behind shields anyway? No other class can do that.

Most mag sorcs, haven't run dual dmg sets as a meta since dual wield builds, so 3+ years ago........... That's when sustain was way more forgiving, and frags had way more punch. Structured emp, Meteor, frag, streak (which had a longer stun), and fury would be a really hard combo.

Didgerion

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

Gprime31 wrote: »

nah, just make them critable...problem solved.

FYI the crit registers on shields, but the damage is not multiplied - if you run a crit build you still get the benefits against shields.

The biggest benefit of a crit IS the multiplied damage...and you don't get that against a shield.

You don't get that bonus damage when crit resistance is at cap as well - or is that on the "re-work" list too?

Didgerion

Gprime31 wrote: »

Why should scorcs get to run full damage sets and hide behind shields anyway? No other class can do that.

Maybe you refer to the old sorc's era when the damage shields were twice as fat and lasted much longer and when there were no such thing as oblivion damage.

As of now I run 2 full magica recovery sets and a proc monster set - not quite full damage sets, not even close.

Vaoh

Gprime31 wrote: »

nah, just make them critable...problem solved.

That’s a huge balance change with none of the effects it would have on the game taken into account.

Making damage shields crittable would absolutely destroy Light Armor users in PvP. As such, ZOS would then have to consider:
1. Adding player resistances to damage shields
or
2. Increasing Damage Shield sizes dramatically

Both of these changes would make them overperform quite a bit in PvE, where they currently feel just about right. You’d also end up going in a circle and solving nothing, whilst creating new, unforeseen balance issues.

While I understand it’s common to look at the Mag Sorc that 1vXed you and say those damage shields are OP, or the Magblade with 57K Magicka (yeah that’s a thing now), I highly recommend playing the builds yourself. Both Magicka and Stamina builds are powerful and excel in different situations. The main difference atm is that damage shields sometimes feel a bit too strong in a 1v1, yet they underperform drastically in 1vX (damage shields, unlike block/resistances/cloak/dodge roll, do not scale against the number of targets you face).

THEDKEXPERIENCE

@Vaoh nailed it.

Ankael07

So cut all damage shield values by 50% ? Sometimes I wonder who's living in his own bubble

OGLezard

Ankael07 wrote: »

So cut all damage shield values by 50% ? Sometimes I wonder who's living in his own bubble

On top of the reductions they have seen already , ON TOP of the 50% from from battle spirit lololololol

wolfie1.0.

I will only accept this if you remove cloak from nightblades, get rid of oblivion damage, get rid of mist form, make siege weapons so that players can't see where your missiles are gonna land, remove Argonians and woodelfs poison imunnity. Nerf heavy armor, nerf healing, get rid of proxies detonation skill and about a dozen other things.

In other words if your gonna nerf my method of staying alive longer in pvp then you need to nerf all of the things I don't like about pvp. Actually you know what would solve everyone's problem? Let's just remove pvp altogether lol

LeagueTroll

My suggestion is nerf shield strength but shield also considered metigation. So light armor shielding in nerfed while heavy armor shielding is buffed. Shield only suck up half the dmg is just useless.