Caluurion’s Legacy Information

John_1999

Hello,

for all of you, who did not know, you can one shot ppl. with this set. So if you are a NB, you can gank ppl. easy with it.
It deals 7K instant damage on a target. It has no travel time on melee skills. Just to let you know. Have fun.

jaime1982

It's not instant, it has animation, can be blocked and reflected and even ranged plus your single target mag ability HAS to crit.

Jaxaxo

jaime1982 wrote: »

It's not instant, it has animation, can be blocked and reflected and even ranged plus your single target mag ability HAS to crit.

Cloak --> Concealed Weapons -->la/incap. Most of unaware ppl in noncp are in execute range or dead after this.

John_1999

Jaxaxo wrote: »

jaime1982 wrote: »

It's not instant, it has animation, can be blocked and reflected and even ranged plus your single target mag ability HAS to crit.

Cloak --> Concealed Weapons -->la/incap. Most of unaware ppl in noncp are in execute range or dead after this.

Very True

Waffennacht

I use it on all my mag builds

Koolio

John_1999 wrote: »

Hello,

for all of you, who did not know, you can one shot ppl. with this set. So if you are a NB, you can gank ppl. easy with it.
It deals 7K instant damage on a target. It has no travel time on melee skills. Just to let you know. Have fun.

7k is very low for this. I normally hit 9-12k. I do run a full penetration build though.

Killset

Waffennacht wrote: »

I use it on all my mag builds

I thought you were against proc sets

Waffennacht

Killset wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I use it on all my mag builds

I thought you were against proc sets

Against them? Nah. Doesn't mean I don't know they are "OP"

Not really against anything. Everything I've ever liked in the 4 years of playing have always been considered "OP" that's how I know. If I like it; it's OP lol

Edit: I was a non meta player until people took it as a sign of being weak and talked smack. Now I just play to crush people

Jimmy_The_Fixer

Koolio wrote: »

John_1999 wrote: »

Hello,

for all of you, who did not know, you can one shot ppl. with this set. So if you are a NB, you can gank ppl. easy with it.
It deals 7K instant damage on a target. It has no travel time on melee skills. Just to let you know. Have fun.

7k is very low for this. I normally hit 9-12k. I do run a full penetration build though.

I have questions! How is it doing 12k when it's a 15k tooltip and battle spirit is a 50% flat damage reduction?

Hutch679

Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

John_1999 wrote: »

Hello,

for all of you, who did not know, you can one shot ppl. with this set. So if you are a NB, you can gank ppl. easy with it.
It deals 7K instant damage on a target. It has no travel time on melee skills. Just to let you know. Have fun.

7k is very low for this. I normally hit 9-12k. I do run a full penetration build though.

I have questions! How is it doing 12k when it's a 15k tooltip and battle spirit is a 50% flat damage reduction?

The damage is buffed based on your stats....

Waffennacht

Hutch679 wrote: »

Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

John_1999 wrote: »

Hello,

for all of you, who did not know, you can one shot ppl. with this set. So if you are a NB, you can gank ppl. easy with it.
It deals 7K instant damage on a target. It has no travel time on melee skills. Just to let you know. Have fun.

7k is very low for this. I normally hit 9-12k. I do run a full penetration build though.

I have questions! How is it doing 12k when it's a 15k tooltip and battle spirit is a 50% flat damage reduction?

The damage is buffed based on your stats....

Well... CPs, some racial passives, penetration, and maybe a set or two. Old empower

But it definitely does not scale to any max resource pool or dmg stats

Swimguy

Way better than the old viper and no one cares just because its a magic set. It just proves the clear bias in this game. NBs arent that OP people are just salty scrubs

Koolio

Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

John_1999 wrote: »

Hello,

for all of you, who did not know, you can one shot ppl. with this set. So if you are a NB, you can gank ppl. easy with it.
It deals 7K instant damage on a target. It has no travel time on melee skills. Just to let you know. Have fun.

7k is very low for this. I normally hit 9-12k. I do run a full penetration build though.

I have questions! How is it doing 12k when it's a 15k tooltip and battle spirit is a 50% flat damage reduction?

I have a 20k plus tooltip on a build to only use this. Add in spinners and lover with 5k cp penetration against a medium armor user and boom. Especially if you can ani cancel a soul harvest fast enough for the extra 20%.

kaithuzar

jaime1982 wrote: »

It's not instant, it has animation, can be blocked and reflected and even ranged plus your single target mag ability HAS to crit.

You do know the shadowy disguise morph, the only version of cloak that lets you be invisible now, is guaranteed crit 100% when coming out of stealth; right?

fred4

Swimguy wrote: »

Way better than the old viper and no one cares just because its a magic set. It just proves the clear bias in this game. NBs arent that OP people are just salty scrubs

Realistically it proves that a set that is somewhat difficult to obtain, works best on only one class, requires farming weapons to single bar it and control it, and requires a DLC, gets less use and, consequently, less mileage in the forums than something that everyone can craft, such as Sloads. Yes, everyone can craft Sloads, you just go to your guild hall. Similarly Viper was widely available when it first appeared, as it was BoE and traded in guild stores.

I'm enjoying using Caluu, but am on the fence as to how good it really is. It makes magblades less reliant on Merciless, and opens up the melee ganking playstyle more typically employed by stamblades. It doesn't feel any more powerful than my stamblade, to be honest. You could argue that magblades have better defense (shields), thus making them more powerful than stamblades, but that could just be me being used to shields, rather than rolling and blocking.

There is counterplay, since there is a one second delay before the set activates. I was playing 2H / resto melee magblade for quite some time before this set appeared. The stun from Concealed Weapon is very situational. It can work as a gank opener, but trying to land the stun later in a fight typically wastes a lot of time cloaking and running after people. Do it against a sorc using Lightning Form or Hurricane, or an Overwhelming Surge build, and it's not viable at all.

By far the most practical way of using the set is Cloak -> Lotus Fan -> Incap. If the Incap stuns, then Caluu hits at the same time as the Incap, and people are typically in execute range or dead. However, as with stamblades, that applies only to the squishier (light / medium armor) types, who aren't shielding, blocking, or dodge rolling. I find the more experienced players instinctively dodge roll, when they get ganked with Ambush / Lotus Fan, and it's a great counter. Indeed I was duelling a magsorc open world and, after I hit through half his shields, twice, he immediately adapted and dodge rolled all my subsequent attempts. Cloak -> Lotus fan is a very telegraphed move. Just Fear -> Incap won't work, since Fear deals no damage, and Incap is an ultimate, not a magicka ability.

Of course I am talking about just running Caluu. You can pair it with Zaan, Surge, or Sloads, and exert more pressure, but I see that as the more general problem of stacking procs and their tendency to overperform in no CP.

brandishsteel

Koolio wrote: »

John_1999 wrote: »

Hello,

for all of you, who did not know, you can one shot ppl. with this set. So if you are a NB, you can gank ppl. easy with it.
It deals 7K instant damage on a target. It has no travel time on melee skills. Just to let you know. Have fun.

7k is very low for this. I normally hit 9-12k. I do run a full penetration build though.

I run double penetration build, very penetrative

Swimguy

fred4 wrote: »

Swimguy wrote: »

Way better than the old viper and no one cares just because its a magic set. It just proves the clear bias in this game. NBs arent that OP people are just salty scrubs

Realistically it proves that a set that is somewhat difficult to obtain, works best on only one class, requires farming weapons to single bar it and control it, and requires a DLC, gets less use and, consequently, less mileage in the forums than something that everyone can craft, such as Sloads. Yes, everyone can craft Sloads, you just go to your guild hall. Similarly Viper was widely available when it first appeared, as it was BoE and traded in guild stores.

I'm enjoying using Caluu, but am on the fence as to how good it really is. It makes magblades less reliant on Merciless, and opens up the melee ganking playstyle more typically employed by stamblades. It doesn't feel any more powerful than my stamblade, to be honest. You could argue that magblades have better defense (shields), thus making them more powerful than stamblades, but that could just be me being used to shields, rather than rolling and blocking.

There is counterplay, since there is a one second delay before the set activates. I was playing 2H / resto melee magblade for quite some time before this set appeared. The stun from Concealed Weapon is very situational. It can work as a gank opener, but trying to land the stun later in a fight typically wastes a lot of time cloaking and running after people. Do it against a sorc using Lightning Form or Hurricane, or an Overwhelming Surge build, and it's not viable at all.

By far the most practical way of using the set is Cloak -> Lotus Fan -> Incap. If the Incap stuns, then Caluu hits at the same time as the Incap, and people are typically in execute range or dead. However, as with stamblades, that applies only to the squishier (light / medium armor) types, who aren't shielding, blocking, or dodge rolling. I find the more experienced players instinctively dodge roll, when they get ganked with Ambush / Lotus Fan, and it's a great counter. Indeed I was duelling a magsorc open world and, after I hit through half his shields, twice, he immediately adapted and dodge rolled all my subsequent attempts. Cloak -> Lotus fan is a very telegraphed move. Just Fear -> Incap won't work, since Fear deals no damage, and Incap is an ultimate, not a magicka ability.

Of course I am talking about just running Caluu. You can pair it with Zaan, Surge, or Sloads, and exert more pressure, but I see that as the more general problem of stacking procs and their tendency to overperform in no CP.

there is no counter play when you get stunned out of stealth and it immediately procs and hits you while you are breaking free.

arkansas_ESO

Swimguy wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Swimguy wrote: »

Way better than the old viper and no one cares just because its a magic set. It just proves the clear bias in this game. NBs arent that OP people are just salty scrubs

Realistically it proves that a set that is somewhat difficult to obtain, works best on only one class, requires farming weapons to single bar it and control it, and requires a DLC, gets less use and, consequently, less mileage in the forums than something that everyone can craft, such as Sloads. Yes, everyone can craft Sloads, you just go to your guild hall. Similarly Viper was widely available when it first appeared, as it was BoE and traded in guild stores.

I'm enjoying using Caluu, but am on the fence as to how good it really is. It makes magblades less reliant on Merciless, and opens up the melee ganking playstyle more typically employed by stamblades. It doesn't feel any more powerful than my stamblade, to be honest. You could argue that magblades have better defense (shields), thus making them more powerful than stamblades, but that could just be me being used to shields, rather than rolling and blocking.

There is counterplay, since there is a one second delay before the set activates. I was playing 2H / resto melee magblade for quite some time before this set appeared. The stun from Concealed Weapon is very situational. It can work as a gank opener, but trying to land the stun later in a fight typically wastes a lot of time cloaking and running after people. Do it against a sorc using Lightning Form or Hurricane, or an Overwhelming Surge build, and it's not viable at all.

By far the most practical way of using the set is Cloak -> Lotus Fan -> Incap. If the Incap stuns, then Caluu hits at the same time as the Incap, and people are typically in execute range or dead. However, as with stamblades, that applies only to the squishier (light / medium armor) types, who aren't shielding, blocking, or dodge rolling. I find the more experienced players instinctively dodge roll, when they get ganked with Ambush / Lotus Fan, and it's a great counter. Indeed I was duelling a magsorc open world and, after I hit through half his shields, twice, he immediately adapted and dodge rolled all my subsequent attempts. Cloak -> Lotus fan is a very telegraphed move. Just Fear -> Incap won't work, since Fear deals no damage, and Incap is an ultimate, not a magicka ability.

Of course I am talking about just running Caluu. You can pair it with Zaan, Surge, or Sloads, and exert more pressure, but I see that as the more general problem of stacking procs and their tendency to overperform in no CP.

there is no counter play when you get stunned out of stealth and it immediately procs and hits you while you are breaking free.

It doesn't automatically land, though. Unless you're at 300+ ping or just slow to react, one second is plenty of time to break free and dodge. The old Lotus Fan+Caluurion+Incap combo was so much worse, and it's gone now.

Waffennacht

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Swimguy wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Swimguy wrote: »

Way better than the old viper and no one cares just because its a magic set. It just proves the clear bias in this game. NBs arent that OP people are just salty scrubs

Realistically it proves that a set that is somewhat difficult to obtain, works best on only one class, requires farming weapons to single bar it and control it, and requires a DLC, gets less use and, consequently, less mileage in the forums than something that everyone can craft, such as Sloads. Yes, everyone can craft Sloads, you just go to your guild hall. Similarly Viper was widely available when it first appeared, as it was BoE and traded in guild stores.

I'm enjoying using Caluu, but am on the fence as to how good it really is. It makes magblades less reliant on Merciless, and opens up the melee ganking playstyle more typically employed by stamblades. It doesn't feel any more powerful than my stamblade, to be honest. You could argue that magblades have better defense (shields), thus making them more powerful than stamblades, but that could just be me being used to shields, rather than rolling and blocking.

There is counterplay, since there is a one second delay before the set activates. I was playing 2H / resto melee magblade for quite some time before this set appeared. The stun from Concealed Weapon is very situational. It can work as a gank opener, but trying to land the stun later in a fight typically wastes a lot of time cloaking and running after people. Do it against a sorc using Lightning Form or Hurricane, or an Overwhelming Surge build, and it's not viable at all.

By far the most practical way of using the set is Cloak -> Lotus Fan -> Incap. If the Incap stuns, then Caluu hits at the same time as the Incap, and people are typically in execute range or dead. However, as with stamblades, that applies only to the squishier (light / medium armor) types, who aren't shielding, blocking, or dodge rolling. I find the more experienced players instinctively dodge roll, when they get ganked with Ambush / Lotus Fan, and it's a great counter. Indeed I was duelling a magsorc open world and, after I hit through half his shields, twice, he immediately adapted and dodge rolled all my subsequent attempts. Cloak -> Lotus fan is a very telegraphed move. Just Fear -> Incap won't work, since Fear deals no damage, and Incap is an ultimate, not a magicka ability.

Of course I am talking about just running Caluu. You can pair it with Zaan, Surge, or Sloads, and exert more pressure, but I see that as the more general problem of stacking procs and their tendency to overperform in no CP.

there is no counter play when you get stunned out of stealth and it immediately procs and hits you while you are breaking free.

It doesn't automatically land, though. Unless you're at 300+ ping or just slow to react, one second is plenty of time to break free and dodge. The old Lotus Fan+Caluurion+Incap combo was so much worse, and it's gone now.

No there isn't. At melee range, you get hit+ CC which triggers Cal, CC break does take a full GCD meaning you will take that follow up hit (Cal here)

I've been a long advocate that CC break should not take a GCD

fred4

Waffennacht wrote: »

No there isn't. At melee range, you get hit+ CC which triggers Cal, CC break does take a full GCD meaning you will take that follow up hit (Cal here)

Except, which CC are you talking about? Concealed Weapon? Someone on the original NB design team attached a speed buff to that, so you might catch up to people and stun them from cloak. In reality this playstyle does not work well. It obviously works against people who stand still while, say, turning a flag, e.g. your basic noob, but it doesn't work well in chaotic larger fights. It doesn't work well against moving, experienced players, or those that use any form of AOE or NB detection skills. Being marked takes away the Concealed stun as well (have to double-check, but I think it does).

The reason a Concealed stun attempt works so badly against moving targets is that you have to refresh Cloak every 2.9 seconds. Not only is this a large resource drain, but it constantly takes away a GCD when you are busy cloaking. The end result is that you end up spamming Cloak even more frequently on the final approach to a target, so you have Concealed available at the right point in time, much like a runner might adjust their steps on the approach to an obstacle. It's a cumbersome and resource intensive playstyle.

So I ask again, which skill is it that provides a good, reliable CC and does significant damage that stacks with Caluu? Concealed can indeed work, but in 90% of situations I find that I need Lotus Fan to either move in on a new target, when they are in a good, slightly isolated position, or to keep up the pressure on an existing one. Also, good luck trying to stun someone during an IC boss fight with Concealed Weapon. You'll most likely be taken out of cloak by the ground AOE from the boss before you get there.

Waffennacht

fred4 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

No there isn't. At melee range, you get hit+ CC which triggers Cal, CC break does take a full GCD meaning you will take that follow up hit (Cal here)

Except, which CC are you talking about? Concealed Weapon? Someone on the original NB design team attached a speed buff to that, so you might catch up to people and stun them from cloak. In reality this playstyle does not work well. It obviously works against people who stand still while, say, turning a flag, e.g. your basic noob, but it doesn't work well in chaotic larger fights. It doesn't work well against moving, experienced players, or those that use any form of AOE or NB detection skills. Being marked takes away the Concealed stun as well (have to double-check, but I think it does).

So I ask again, which skill is it that provides a good, reliable CC and does significant damage that stacks with Caluu? Concealed can indeed work, but in 90% of situations I find that I need Lotus Fan to either move in on a new target, when they are in a good, slightly isolated position, or to keep up the pressure on an existing one. Also, good luck trying to stun someone during an IC boss fight with Concealed Weapon. You'll most likely be taken out of cloak by the ground AOE from the boss before you get there.

Well a high damage ability with stun that comes to mind is incapacitating strike, but I don't feel like you need a damage component with the CC to get the most from Cal.

When a player takes around 8k damage, they're one their heels, at which point they can either try to avoid the next dmg or heal, not both. Either way it's a up hill battle.

Btw melee range and you don't have to be cloaked. Melee range just means close, the knock back of Reach fire staff in close proximity will guarantee a land from Cal.

fred4

Waffennacht wrote: »

Well a high damage ability with stun that comes to mind is incapacitating strike

Incap is an ulti, not a magicka ability. It does not trigger Caluu.

but I don't feel like you need a damage component with the CC to get the most from Cal.

To me that's the whole point. Use it to stack damage and generate burst. That's what makes the set and why some people find it contentious, no?

When a player takes around 8k damage, they're one their heels,

Err, not really.

at which point they can either try to avoid the next dmg or heal, not both.

Sure they can do both (kind of). At least half the population. It's called Healing Ward .

Either way it's a up hill battle.

Since you're now talking about a single attack (Caluu), not a stacked burst, I would say there are plenty of other things that hit that hard. Being ganked with a full combo, while off guard or squishy, I'd call that an uphill battle, but not Caluu on it's own.

Btw melee range and you don't have to be cloaked. Melee range just means close, the knock back of Reach fire staff in close proximity will guarantee a land from Cal.

Well, so I guess you're talking about hearing / seeing the Caluu proc, only then using Flame Reach? It can work; I fell to it once, but Caluu does have a travel time in addition to the 1 second delay. A sorc used it just a few meters away from me, and I kicked myself for taking too long to process where I'd heard that laughter and seen those floating candles before.

Waffennacht

fred4 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Well a high damage ability with stun that comes to mind is incapacitating strike

Incap is an ulti, not a magicka ability. It does not trigger Caluu.

but I don't feel like you need a damage component with the CC to get the most from Cal.

To me that's the whole point. Use it to stack damage and generate burst. That's what makes the set and why some people find it contentious, no?

When a player takes around 8k damage, they're one their heels,

Err, not really.

at which point they can either try to avoid the next dmg or heal, not both.

Sure they can do both (kind of). At least half the population. It's called Healing Ward .

Either way it's a up hill battle.

Since you're now talking about a single attack (Caluu), not a stacked burst, I would say there are plenty of other things that hit that hard. Being ganked with a full combo, while off guard or squishy, I'd call that an uphill battle, but not Caluu on it's own.

Btw melee range and you don't have to be cloaked. Melee range just means close, the knock back of Reach fire staff in close proximity will guarantee a land from Cal.

Well, so I guess you're talking about hearing / seeing the Caluu proc, only then using Flame Reach? It can work; I fell to it once, but Caluu does have a travel time in addition to the 1 second delay. A sorc used it just a few meters away from me, and I kicked myself for taking too long to process where I'd heard that laughter and seen those floating candles before.

Good point on Incap lmfao. Just thinking of hard CCs available to NB and didn't think hard enough! 3 a.m. job ugh.

I do no CP BGs and 8k from Cal is huge, in CP, I would agree it putting someone on their heels is unlikely (I'm going to guess a minimum 40% dmg difference)

But points well taken!

Edit: auto correct. I'm so damn tired right now