Light Armor + Shield > Heavy Armor

THEDKEXPERIENCE

I was messing with some stuff yesterday to see if things would be a bit better in PVP with heavy armor instead of light. Seemed reasonable enough. I did not, however, remember that Harness Magicka only works with 5 pieces of light armor on until I died spamming a button that wasn’t working.

Anyway, once I figured out the problem it smacked me in the head like a 2 handed greatsword: my Magplar is actually tankier in light armor casting a 10k shield (after battle spirit) than in heavy armor with literally any other possible shield equipped.

Is it just me or does this seem silly? Why isn’t there a second magic based shield available in game?

josiahva

There is: Healing Ward(and hardened ward on the sorc, but that's irrelevant for a magplar) or the other morph, which will be more reliable in making sure you get a shield when you actually need one, if you can afford to let go of the healing it provides...should be easy on a templar.

Merlin13KAGL

You mean, besides Sun Shield, and Healing Ward? No idea.

DeadlyRecluse

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Anyway, once I figured out the problem it smacked me in the head like a 2 handed greatsword: my Magplar is actually tankier in light armor casting a 10k shield (after battle spirit) than in heavy armor with literally any other possible shield equipped.

I mean, kind of.

The mitigation you are getting from light is active. Take enough damage during a global cooldown, it doesn't mean anything. And you aren't doing damage in the GCD that you're casting a shield in.

On the other hand, a tanky heavy armor build can stack hots, and, because the mitigation is passive, potentially spend more time damaging.

Plus, heavy armor/passive mitigation has the advantage that you can't be hit while it's down. Unbreakable CC isn't an insta-loss. Gankers have to get through a bigger effective HP pool, giving you more time to react.

Taleof2Cities

It’s a tradeoff for sure in PvP.

Some players simply can’t (or won’t) keep magic shields up 100% of the time ... which makes heavy armor more appealing.

I have a PvP Templar healer that wears mostly heavy ... and a PvP Warden healer that wears mostly light.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

You mean, besides Sun Shield, and Healing Ward? No idea.

Sun Shield is based on health, not magic.

Healing Ward requires a Resto Staff and isn’t even close to the same thing.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

It’s a tradeoff for sure in PvP.

Some players simply can’t (or won’t) keep magic shields up 100% of the time ... which makes heavy armor more appealing.

I have a PvP Templar healer that wears mostly heavy ... and a PvP Warden healer that wears mostly light.

Exactly. I’m really good at remembering to cast my shield every 5 or 6 seconds. Without it I felt like I was wearing paper even though I was thousands of points tankier.

DuskMarine

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Anyway, once I figured out the problem it smacked me in the head like a 2 handed greatsword: my Magplar is actually tankier in light armor casting a 10k shield (after battle spirit) than in heavy armor with literally any other possible shield equipped.

I mean, kind of.

The mitigation you are getting from light is active. Take enough damage during a global cooldown, it doesn't mean anything. And you aren't doing damage in the GCD that you're casting a shield in.

On the other hand, a tanky heavy armor build can stack hots, and, because the mitigation is passive, potentially spend more time damaging.

Plus, heavy armor/passive mitigation has the advantage that you can't be hit while it's down. Unbreakable CC isn't an insta-loss. Gankers have to get through a bigger effective HP pool, giving you more time to react.

or you could do like some do and get the set that gives you basically heavy armor on top of light armor then wear a set that gives great spell damage its like hitting with a plane while getting hit by marshmellows. its rediculous how op that set is with light armor and a shield.

Merlin13KAGL

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

You mean, besides Sun Shield, and Healing Ward? No idea.

Sun Shield is based on health, not magic.

Healing Ward requires a Resto Staff and isn’t even close to the same thing.

I thought you meant the cast cost, not the stat it was based on.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

DuskMarine wrote: »

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Anyway, once I figured out the problem it smacked me in the head like a 2 handed greatsword: my Magplar is actually tankier in light armor casting a 10k shield (after battle spirit) than in heavy armor with literally any other possible shield equipped.

I mean, kind of.

The mitigation you are getting from light is active. Take enough damage during a global cooldown, it doesn't mean anything. And you aren't doing damage in the GCD that you're casting a shield in.

On the other hand, a tanky heavy armor build can stack hots, and, because the mitigation is passive, potentially spend more time damaging.

Plus, heavy armor/passive mitigation has the advantage that you can't be hit while it's down. Unbreakable CC isn't an insta-loss. Gankers have to get through a bigger effective HP pool, giving you more time to react.

or you could do like some do and get the set that gives you basically heavy armor on top of light armor then wear a set that gives great spell damage its like hitting with a plane while getting hit by marshmellows. its rediculous how op that set is with light armor and a shield.

I do a max magic build (about 52.8k). In Cyrodiil my health sits just north of 25k and I can Harness Magicka Shield for 10k or Honor the Dead for 10k (after battle spirit). I figured I’d try the heavy armor to see if I could push the cheese to an otherworldly level but without HM it just couldn’t reach maximum cheese.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

You mean, besides Sun Shield, and Healing Ward? No idea.

Sun Shield is based on health, not magic.

Healing Ward requires a Resto Staff and isn’t even close to the same thing.

I thought you meant the cast cost, not the stat it was based on.

No worries. Makes sense.

DuskMarine

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Anyway, once I figured out the problem it smacked me in the head like a 2 handed greatsword: my Magplar is actually tankier in light armor casting a 10k shield (after battle spirit) than in heavy armor with literally any other possible shield equipped.

I mean, kind of.

The mitigation you are getting from light is active. Take enough damage during a global cooldown, it doesn't mean anything. And you aren't doing damage in the GCD that you're casting a shield in.

On the other hand, a tanky heavy armor build can stack hots, and, because the mitigation is passive, potentially spend more time damaging.

Plus, heavy armor/passive mitigation has the advantage that you can't be hit while it's down. Unbreakable CC isn't an insta-loss. Gankers have to get through a bigger effective HP pool, giving you more time to react.

or you could do like some do and get the set that gives you basically heavy armor on top of light armor then wear a set that gives great spell damage its like hitting with a plane while getting hit by marshmellows. its rediculous how op that set is with light armor and a shield.

I do a max magic build (about 52.8k). In Cyrodiil my health sits just north of 25k and I can Harness Magicka Shield for 10k or Honor the Dead for 10k (after battle spirit). I figured I’d try the heavy armor to see if I could push the cheese to an otherworldly level but without HM it just couldn’t reach maximum cheese.

ah i see but that set is basically like putting heavy and light armor together its amazing at how well that actually works. makes you honestly wanna take and push the guy off a large cliff cause thats probly how youll kill him before he kills you

Emmagoldman

Can you share which set in HA?

Emmagoldman

Its hard to determine if its shields or HA whicb is stronger without allowing people to consider sets. Are you aiming to dps, tank or healbot?

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Emmagoldman wrote: »

Can you share which set in HA?

My normal set up is ...

5 Julianos
2 Illambris
2 Willpower
3 Grace of the Ancients

I just switched out Light Julianos for Heavy Julianos.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Emmagoldman wrote: »

Its hard to determine if its shields or HA whicb is stronger without allowing people to consider sets. Are you aiming to dps, tank or healbot?

I’m definitely a DPS at this point. I can heal or tank in a pinch, but mostly I’m just shooting fireballs and lasers and proccing fireworks on people who are sieging. It’s quite fun.

And no ... people don’t move out of the red. It’s never not amazing to me.

ak_pvp

Its because of the meta, shields became a hair weaker due to power creep, but they have been rarely nerfed, wheras heavy got demolished.

In the current meta heavy is very weak on mag classes that don't spec full tonk. For an all around build shields are indeed as strong or stronger due to the dot (specifically bleeds) +defile meta which shields can take and whilst they melt under heavy pressure, so does heavy. Shield builds however, maintain extra damage.

Its also easier to weave defense and offense with a shield build on a magplar. Going heavy means some blocking, which templar can't do whilst channeling.

Hate the playstyle personally though, pressing a shield every 2s is a lot less fun (if that is the word?) than using some abilities that grab you time if used well to switch from defense to offense, and thus put the enemy on defense.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

ak_pvp wrote: »

Its because of the meta, shields became a hair weaker due to power creep, but they have been rarely nerfed, wheras heavy got demolished.

In the current meta heavy is very weak on mag classes that don't spec full tonk. For an all around build shields are indeed as strong or stronger due to the dot (specifically bleeds) +defile meta which shields can take and whilst they melt under heavy pressure, so does heavy. Shield builds however, maintain extra damage.

Its also easier to weave defense and offense with a shield build on a magplar. Going heavy means some blocking, which templar can't do whilst channeling.

Hate the playstyle personally though, pressing a shield every 2s is a lot less fun (if that is the word?) than using some abilities that grab you time if used well to switch from defense to offense, and thus put the enemy on defense.

You absolutely nailed it. I can’t block for crap as I channel everything but pressing X every 5 seconds is simple enough.

Danksta

I don't even run Harness on my light armor Magplar in PvP.

Doctordarkspawn

ak_pvp wrote: »

Its because of the meta, shields became a hair weaker due to power creep, but they have been rarely nerfed, wheras heavy got demolished.

In the current meta heavy is very weak on mag classes that don't spec full tonk. For an all around build shields are indeed as strong or stronger due to the dot (specifically bleeds) +defile meta which shields can take and whilst they melt under heavy pressure, so does heavy. Shield builds however, maintain extra damage.

Its also easier to weave defense and offense with a shield build on a magplar. Going heavy means some blocking, which templar can't do whilst channeling.

Hate the playstyle personally though, pressing a shield every 2s is a lot less fun (if that is the word?) than using some abilities that grab you time if used well to switch from defense to offense, and thus put the enemy on defense.

And heavy got demolished because ZOS tried to make it an offensive option and when that created the heavy armor meta their solution was to leave it in shambles, given that by giving it offense, they nuked a sizeable ammount of it's defense.

Gr8 job ZOS.

PlagueSD

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Anyway, once I figured out the problem it smacked me in the head like a 2 handed greatsword: my Magplar is actually tankier in light armor casting a 10k shield (after battle spirit) than in heavy armor with literally any other possible shield equipped.

I mean, kind of.

The mitigation you are getting from light is active. Take enough damage during a global cooldown, it doesn't mean anything. And you aren't doing damage in the GCD that you're casting a shield in.

On the other hand, a tanky heavy armor build can stack hots, and, because the mitigation is passive, potentially spend more time damaging.

Plus, heavy armor/passive mitigation has the advantage that you can't be hit while it's down. Unbreakable CC isn't an insta-loss. Gankers have to get through a bigger effective HP pool, giving you more time to react.

or you could do like some do and get the set that gives you basically heavy armor on top of light armor then wear a set that gives great spell damage its like hitting with a plane while getting hit by marshmellows. its rediculous how op that set is with light armor and a shield.

I do a max magic build (about 52.8k). In Cyrodiil my health sits just north of 25k and I can Harness Magicka Shield for 10k or Honor the Dead for 10k (after battle spirit). I figured I’d try the heavy armor to see if I could push the cheese to an otherworldly level but without HM it just couldn’t reach maximum cheese.

There's only one person that can reach maximum cheese...Sheogorath.

Lexxypwns

Mageblade meta - Heavy
Templar meta - Heavy
DK meta - Heavy
Magden meta - Heavy
Sorc meta - Light

Shields are insanely weak when outnumbered this patch because damage went through the roof and their strength is relatively the same. What you’re seeing is that Xbox NA hasn’t fully adjusted to the meta.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Mageblade meta - Heavy
Templar meta - Heavy
DK meta - Heavy
Magden meta - Heavy
Sorc meta - Light

Shields are insanely weak when outnumbered this patch because damage went through the roof and their strength is relatively the same. What you’re seeing is that Xbox NA hasn’t fully adjusted to the meta.

I’ll keep that in mind and report back in a week. Haha.

Still haven’t seen any Sloads related issues.

Dracane

The way light armor is designed, is to be an active caster. As long as you can actively cast things, you are very potent. But as soon as you get low on Magicka or when you get stunned, that's where light armor is weak.

Heavy armor is the opposite, heavy armor is all about passive survival. No matter if you get stunned or even when you are out of ressources, you are still more tanky. There are situations where shields are superior, but heavy armor is much more versatile. Shields are pretty much static and get worse the more damage you have incoming. While the damage taken on heavy armor always scales very well with your resistances.

Or in short: Light armor requires active attention in order to be usefull. Heavy armor does not, it's completely passive and good in all situations.

Strider__Roshin

Dracane wrote: »

The way light armor is designed, is to be an active caster. As long as you can actively cast things, you are very potent. But as soon as you get low on Magicka or when you get stunned, that's where light armor is weak.

Heavy armor is the opposite, heavy armor is all about passive survival. No matter if you get stunned or even when you are out of ressources, you are still more tanky. There are situations where shields are superior, but heavy armor is much more versatile. Shields are pretty much static and get worse the more damage you have incoming. While the damage taken on heavy armor always scales very well with your resistances.

Or in short: Light armor requires active attention in order to be usefull. Heavy armor does not, it's completely passive and good in all situations.

And medium armor is suppose to be reactionary, but there's so many undodgeable attacks, and spamming dodge roll is so punishing that I use it primary as a means of last resort. Therefore I have to spec my character to be tanky like heavy armor in order to survive.

Dracane

Daus wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

The way light armor is designed, is to be an active caster. As long as you can actively cast things, you are very potent. But as soon as you get low on Magicka or when you get stunned, that's where light armor is weak.

Heavy armor is the opposite, heavy armor is all about passive survival. No matter if you get stunned or even when you are out of ressources, you are still more tanky. There are situations where shields are superior, but heavy armor is much more versatile. Shields are pretty much static and get worse the more damage you have incoming. While the damage taken on heavy armor always scales very well with your resistances.

Or in short: Light armor requires active attention in order to be usefull. Heavy armor does not, it's completely passive and good in all situations.

And medium armor is suppose to be reactionary, but there's so many undodgeable attacks, and spamming dodge roll is so punishing that I use it primary as a means of last resort. Therefore I have to spec my character to be tanky like heavy armor in order to survive.

That's it. Light and medium armor both have many counters. Heavy armor is the safe way, because it has no counters. At least none that would not be more effective against light and medium.