Make it 4v4 or nerf Mage's Wrath

Strider__Roshin

So sick of my team losing because our kills are being taken by magSorcs from the third team. This kill stealing nonsense is getting old.

ecru

imo we should compile a list of issues that would be instantly solved by removing the third team altogether

wheem_ESO

While it's certainly possible to killsteal with things other than Mage's Wrath/Endless Fury, including with just basic non-execute damage, it should be painfully obvious that the Sorcerer execute is the biggest offender when it comes to stealing kills (or securing your own personal/team kills, so that someone else doesn't steal them).

I play Mag Sorc a bit myself, and wouldn't terribly mind a nerf to the execute, as long as it isn't made worthless. That said, I'd much prefer BGs be cut down to just 2 teams, since that would solve a lot of other annoyances as well. After that, if there are nerfs/buffs to various class/weapon/etc...skills, so be it - there's plenty of stuff that could do with some adjusting.

Thogard

I wonder how long it’ll take before people start to see my calls for shortening the range of mage’s wrath as a good idea.

Ive been saying it for over a year now and people still laugh at me for it.

Shortening the range to 12m would fix quite a lot.

Betsararie

Get a mag sorc on your team. There are plenty sorcs out there you can maybe ask and sorc fills a niche role in BGs.

Vapirko

You’re on quite the nerf sorc rant. Isn’t there some kind of unspoken rule where you only get one nerf post per month? It’s highly unlikely your team is losing entirely due to mages wrath.

Mojomonkeyman

Blanco wrote: »

Get a mag sorc on your team. There are plenty sorcs out there you can maybe ask and sorc fills a niche role in BGs.

You can't have a match anymore on PC EU without 50% magsorc participation. All those bandwaggoning cage/fury clowns enjoy how absolute overtuned their toolkit has become this patch. It's just painfully obvious in BGs, everything in their kit is fire & forget, sticking to the target, with huge impact and ignoring one or the other defensive mechanic. A sad joke.

The fewer magsorcs a match has, the more enjoyable it is. Getting every single kill you work for stolen just becaused some nerd manages to spam fury from the backline is not fun.

Maulkin

Or..or.. maybe just make the player with the most damage dealt on the target get the kill? Instead of the one that just applied an execute. Resetting the counter after 5 seconds of no damage taken.

Asardes

This is actually the wrong way to look at it. One thing they should do is change the scoring, so the assist counts for more. Problem solved. No need to #NerfSorc even more. And I play mostly DK so I can't say I'm biased towards sorc. I'm just effed about crying player blanked nerfs that make the game too uniform, with classes losing their individual attributes.

Betsararie

Or people can understand killing blows don't matter why don't they understand that

Chilly-McFreeze

Oh no, the scoring mechanic is flawed! What shall we do? Better nerf a class!

Shall I mention that this thread is brought to you by the same guy that thinks curse is better than incap?

Daus wrote: »

Haunting Curse hits hard than incap but it goes off every 2 seconds, and you can't block or dodge it (you can shield it though which is just another reason why damage shields are OP).

Maulkin

Blanco wrote: »

Or people can understand killing blows don't matter why don't they understand that

I think it's a case of you needing to understand the BGs a lot better.

There's 3 teams in the BG, not 2. If you do all the damage to a target but a player from the 3rd team gets the kill with a 28 meter ranged execute, your team lost that kill. And if that keeps repeating you lose a Deathmatch BG faster than you can blink.

On top of that, individual scoring counts towards the leaderboard which has rewards associated with it. So that's still a problem.

Asardes wrote: »

This is actually the wrong way to look at it. One thing they should do is change the scoring, so the assist counts for more. Problem solved. No need to #NerfSorc even more. And I play mostly DK so I can't say I'm biased towards sorc. I'm just effed about crying player blanked nerfs that make the game too uniform, with classes losing their individual attributes.

There's 2 separate problems.

One, is your team losing the kill in a Deathmatch. Which assists and medals and whatnot has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Two, is the problem of individual scoring. And the problem there is that there's more than one medal type associated with killing blows. There's medals for double-kill, triple-kill, quadruple-kill and you can get up to 1k extra points from those. It's basically getting killing blows within X seconds from your last kill. And these greatly exacerbate the problem with kill stealing from your own teammates.

There's games when I'll have near double damage and assists from a MagSorc (and 3 times the healing) but the medals associated with kills and kills streaks puts him at 2k points above me.

Betsararie

You're right the killing blow gets more points but one day you might understand that a killing blow is not a show of skill.

Maulkin

Blanco wrote: »

You're right the killing blow gets more points but one day you might understand that a killing blow is not a show of skill.

VaranisArano

Well, that derailed quickly.

But yeah, I'm leveling up a stam sorc while doing Battlegrounds for the first time and the sorc execute is kinda sweet for kill stealing, and yeah, I may just have figured out yesterday how to use that strat of letting the other two teams fight and then try to kill steal...

Which I'm sure was plenty annoying for them, as much as I enjoyed getting a decent score in a deathmatch despite coming in second.

I'm not sure I have a good solution though. I'm still learning how to execute people with it effectively since I'm learning Battlegrounds as I go as a stam sorc, so I don't have any good suggesrions for fixes.

Betsararie

I always play BGs as dirty as you possibly can kill stealing and other crooked methods works well that way.

VaranisArano

Blanco wrote: »

I always play BGs as dirty as you possibly can kill stealing and other crooked methods works well that way.

As long as its not actually cheating, that's just playing to win. Which is only a bad thing to people who aren't playing to win points-wise, but are trying to win on their own terms, whatever those terms are. This article had a really nice discussion about what "playing to win" actually means when people talk about fighting dirty. http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win

ZOS_Mika

We have recently removed some unnecessary back and forth from this thread. Please keep the discussion civil and constructive. Thank you.

Strider__Roshin

ZOS_MikaS wrote: »

We have recently removed some unnecessary back and forth from this thread. Please keep the discussion civil and constructive. Thank you.

Good morning, I must have missed a lot of anger lol

Strider__Roshin

Maulkin wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Or people can understand killing blows don't matter why don't they understand that

I think it's a case of you needing to understand the BGs a lot better.

There's 3 teams in the BG, not 2. If you do all the damage to a target but a player from the 3rd team gets the kill with a 28 meter ranged execute, your team lost that kill. And if that keeps repeating you lose a Deathmatch BG faster than you can blink.

On top of that, individual scoring counts towards the leaderboard which has rewards associated with it. So that's still a problem.

Asardes wrote: »

This is actually the wrong way to look at it. One thing they should do is change the scoring, so the assist counts for more. Problem solved. No need to #NerfSorc even more. And I play mostly DK so I can't say I'm biased towards sorc. I'm just effed about crying player blanked nerfs that make the game too uniform, with classes losing their individual attributes.

There's 2 separate problems.

One, is your team losing the kill in a Deathmatch. Which assists and medals and whatnot has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Two, is the problem of individual scoring. And the problem there is that there's more than one medal type associated with killing blows. There's medals for double-kill, triple-kill, quadruple-kill and you can get up to 1k extra points from those. It's basically getting killing blows within X seconds from your last kill. And these greatly exacerbate the problem with kill stealing from your own teammates.

There's games when I'll have near double damage and assists from a MagSorc (and 3 times the healing) but the medals associated with kills and kills streaks puts him at 2k points above me.

This breaks it down quite nicely. Truthfully if it was just team vs team then the only gripe I would have about mages wrath is that it takes away from my leaderboard score, but in a team vs team vs team scenario mages wrath will make you lose regardless of player skill because green team will pummel orange team, but purple gets the credit because they applied mages wrath before you got them to the 20% threshold.

idk

Wow, OP was on a nerf bender yesterday, especially with the Sorcs.

It is 4v4v4 to keep with the 3 alliance aspect. Yes, it is an adjustment if one is used to merely a XvX but it adds a nice change to the mix if instanced PvP.

Bfish22090

oooo is this one of those nerf mag sorc threads.
while were at it you might want to take a look at incap.
not sure but i heard its OP

Strider__Roshin

Bfish22090 wrote: »

oooo is this one of those nerf mag sorc threads.
while were at it you might want to take a look at incap.
not sure but i heard its OP

Allow me to direct you to my other thread then:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/418695/should-damage-and-ccs-remain-separate#latest

SirMewser

Daus wrote: »

Bfish22090 wrote: »

oooo is this one of those nerf mag sorc threads.
while were at it you might want to take a look at incap.
not sure but i heard its OP

Allow me to direct you to my other thread then:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/418695/should-damage-and-ccs-remain-separate#latest

You mean the one that is inconsequential for that it entierly discounts the meeting with the class reps, which you have proven to not read?

Yes, tell everyone to look at it so they see what I mean.

ZOS_JesC

Greetings, since the thread has continue to derail we have decided to close it. Thank you for your understanding.