Sad State of Vivec/PC/NA

SwampRaider

2 campaigns in a row now, EP has come up 5k points ahead of DC and AD. with DC and AD fighting tooth and nail for second place. THIS IS THE MOST POPULAR CAMPAIGN.

what is going on with this campaign? I really would like us as a campaign to hash this out and fix this. For many of us, its depressing to log in every day.

What is EP doing right? is it Time zones?
What is EP doing wrong?


What is DC doing right?
What is DC doing wrong?

What is AD doing right?
What is AD doing wrong?

This is such a large score margin, Especially with the new scroll system. With EP holding all scrolls constantly. its a kick in the balls. DC is trying its hardest, with old blood and trying to learn new tricks. DC as a faction JUST START learning how to defend keeps

I want this to be a great discussion so us as a campaign can come out on top

gabriebe

DC lacks leadership, plain and simple. Every time I log in not a single guild is doing anything interesting, or communicating it. GoD, IA and SG do things, but they can't be online all the time. But apart from that, we're kinda lacking a hard hitting guild. And it seems like every time DC is on a winning streak, they seem to back off because of campaign imbalance worries. EP isnt particularly worried about those things.

AD... exists. Mostly on other campaigns.

VaranisArano

For the current and last campaigns, many players were preparing for Summerset or playing Summerset.

The campaign before that, AD won.

For myself, I'm an EP loyalist, whether EP is winning or losing, and interested enough in PVP to consistently play despite a new PVE expansion. Nor have I noticed a significant decline in primetime play from AD or DC.

WuffyCerulei

AD and DC need more of a presence. More people, more guilds running, or even just more solo people running. EP not has the guilds but also a large amount of good solo players and small groups.
If AD stopped hiding in Shor and Sotha, we'd have more competition.

Durham

There is not many AD in shore lol... most of the score from that campaign is from day capping.. AD goes two bars the same as the other two faction at prime time and they lose keeps when that happens map looks normal for a while.. Many of the AD on shore have pretty much always been there... Most do not like the lag of Vevic.... why play pvp when your bar does not work! NOPE staying on shore and will only visit on lag Vivec...
In fact I have 3 guildies that will be forced to quit if they are forced to play on Vivec ...for some reason they cannot play there the lag is to much for them...

Ackwalan

Right now AD has a very strong and very large zerg group running. The problem is, all that group does is farm AP. The more they farm AP the more pug groups join them. The 2nd part of problem is, you won't win a campaign when the entire alliance is in one spot. They can take a keep very quickly, but then they will spend 30 - 45 minutes running around a resource while they loose 5X the ground they took.

wildbear247

There are a few things contributing to EP's dominance in Vivec, with 1 below being the most important, and descending from there.
1) EP has a consistently larger population in Vivec. During prime time in NA there is a fairly good balance between the factions, but the numbers swing in EP's favor outside of that timeframe.
2) Especially given point 1, there is a lack of strategy on the 2nd and 3rd place factions to work together to whittle away the 1st place faction's lead, so that the campaign can be a competitive 3-way fight for 1st place in the end. Perhaps there is still some bad feelings that Knights of Ni switched from DC to AD, but too often DC will be pugging down at Roe & Brindle when AD is clearly in last place. And vice versa, DC might be pushing 1st place EP and then suddenly we'll have a swarm of AD hitting our back keeps.
3) The lag in Vivec drives away some great DC players & guilds, with some finding a home in Shor. Legions of Mordor (LoM) is one of those great DC guilds. It's understandable, as recently I've been thinking about playing in Shor more. I thought I would see more of a performance increase in Vivec post-Summerset, but the lag can still be awful. It sucks to theorycraft a new build and then not be able to put it into action half of the time due to lag.
4) EP and AD both seem to have larger & more dedicated guild raids (raids that focus on group composition & set synergy) that run which are a force to be reckoned with, as they can tie up DC forces for an hour at a keep. Ignoring them completely is dangerous because they can easily take keeps, but fighting them means we lose other areas of the map to the opposing faction. Thankfully the Summerset patch gave us more options to deal with these raids with the upgraded catapults and revamped skills like Silver Leash.

I give props to my fellow DC warriors in Vivec. AFAIK, we don't have a hardcore raiding guild at the moment, although GoD is making good progress there. We do have some great solo warriors, and a few guilds that run small groups composed of such. And we have some excellent, easy-going, and fun-oriented PvP guilds that are very friendly to newcomers, in which new players can join and have a great time, earn some AP, and not have to be 100% focused on running specific classes, sets, skills, etc. IA is one such guild, and the guild masters are really great folks.

barshemm

Spent a couple days on my DC.

From what I saw there was only a couple who did call outs and watched the map.

Mavador tried to encourage and steer the faction and was getting grief for it, and he's a nice guy who knows the map.

Never saw any communication between the guild or guilds calling out where they are going. Too worried about spies.

Back on EP, things are quiet and there are people in zone calling out the keeps they are scouting. A guild moves towards and objective and calls out if they want help or what pugs can hit to assist. Basically EP runs as a faction, DC doesn't.

JaZ2091

EP and AD have the same guilds running both factions. Probably going to stop soon, no wonder PVP is abandoned.

SwampRaider

barshemm wrote: »

Spent a couple days on my DC.

From what I saw there was only a couple who did call outs and watched the map.

Mavador tried to encourage and steer the faction and was getting grief for it, and he's a nice guy who knows the map.

Never saw any communication between the guild or guilds calling out where they are going. Too worried about spies.

Back on EP, things are quiet and there are people in zone calling out the keeps they are scouting. A guild moves towards and objective and calls out if they want help or what pugs can hit to assist. Basically EP runs as a faction, DC doesn't.

Really? I know from experience at least My guild calls out what we are assaulting. I personally make it known if im solo sieging a keep and need assistance. maybe it depends on the time zone. No one is worried about spies from my understanding

pcar944

the answer has always been the same - he who has population when majority has "down time" wins

Agrippa_Invisus

A portion of this is due to the fact that ESO is an aging game, with a declining PVP population due to performance and lack of content issues.

This is not a community that is getting enough new blood to replace the retirements and the burnouts. And as people vanish, each of the three factions weakens in different ways.

Right now EP is the Bandwagon faction, swelling their numbers a bit and strengthening them just when they don't need it. Those newer players are in for a harsh reality check when they don't have that lead to crutch on.

AD is the faction where you're either in a guild or you're cannon fodder for the meat grinder that is the AP farm. Not a lot between and due to that, not much gets accomplished if the guilds aren't on.

DC is the faction where everyone gets together and zergs one place down. Split them up and they're just not very impressive at the moment. They've lost every single one of their 'elite' guilds, much of which was the fault of other members of the faction, and are having to rebuild that from nothing.

jaime1982

Ad doesn't fight DC tooth and nail for 2nd place lol. They're like EP's little annoying brother that kicks you when your down and busy with big brother.

jerj6925

SwampRaider wrote: »

2 campaigns in a row now, EP has come up 5k points ahead of DC and AD. with DC and AD fighting tooth and nail for second place. THIS IS THE MOST POPULAR CAMPAIGN.

what is going on with this campaign? I really would like us as a campaign to hash this out and fix this. For many of us, its depressing to log in every day.

What is EP doing right? is it Time zones?
What is EP doing wrong?


What is DC doing right?
What is DC doing wrong?

What is AD doing right?
What is AD doing wrong?

This is such a large score margin, Especially with the new scroll system. With EP holding all scrolls constantly. its a kick in the balls. DC is trying its hardest, with old blood and trying to learn new tricks. DC as a faction JUST START learning how to defend keeps

I want this to be a great discussion so us as a campaign can come out on top

Its very simply, the developers have ignored a very important rule... never underestimate the ability of the player base to F things up. You see Most have decided in order to maximize the rewards with the least amount of effort is to decide what faction will win and simply play those characters in those factions. the rewards can be shared with your other characters with your vault.

Example on the PS4 N/A servers in Vivec AD will win every single time by 5K plus in points, and in shore EP will win every single time and DC is only used to capture empty keeps in those campaigns so the player predetermined winning alliance can score AP points for the rewards.

There is no more real alliance vs alliance, there will be those who will say this is untrue but they are only defending what they are benefiting from. I don't even know if they removed one alliance if that would bring back true alliance vs alliance as the same thing can simply be done with two alliances only.

The only way to get close to a fix would be to force people to pick an alliance and all your characters would then be in that alliance for the duration of the campaign.. but as its already been decided what alliance will win on what server by the player base even if at this point if developers stopped alliance hopping the current winning alliance will keep their populations and continue to win by large leads.

My prediction when this will end is when a new game releases that pulls all these people away leaving behind only the players who really try to play the game as it was meant to be.. but then population levels will be so low it will only be those who refuse to leave a game until servers are shut down. Think of games like dark age of Camelot, ever quest 1 and 2 and the likes.

SwampRaider

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

A portion of this is due to the fact that ESO is an aging game, with a declining PVP population due to performance and lack of content issues.

This is not a community that is getting enough new blood to replace the retirements and the burnouts. And as people vanish, each of the three factions weakens in different ways.

Right now EP is the Bandwagon faction, swelling their numbers a bit and strengthening them just when they don't need it. Those newer players are in for a harsh reality check when they don't have that lead to crutch on.

AD is the faction where you're either in a guild or you're cannon fodder for the meat grinder that is the AP farm. Not a lot between and due to that, not much gets accomplished if the guilds aren't on.

DC is the faction where everyone gets together and zergs one place down. Split them up and they're just not very impressive at the moment. They've lost every single one of their 'elite' guilds, much of which was the fault of other members of the faction, and are having to rebuild that from nothing.

I love playing "zerg the zone general down" it's a fun game.

As a DC raid leader of a meat grinder guild and a zone general, I haven't reached xylena or Agrippa status. I thankfully don't get zerged down

Nightfall12

I think a big problem with the state of this server is that the developers made sets and skill choices that when played in a particular way promotes styles that are just incredibly effective, Now this should be a good thing, but it actually hurts overall.

The Blob balls that can run around in a keep farming AP until a bigger blob group comes along are just plain strong. The problem comes in that these groups are very organized and you have to be very organized to fight back...but from what i see whenever you get within range of one of these blobs you get massive lag. I cant be sure if what i'm saying is correct, but it always seems the lag hit the person that is encountering the large group, and not really the large group itself. Still this style encourages personal AP gain over playing the map. But it also can ruin attempts of someone else trying to play the map, I can't count how many times i have seen a good keep battle between AD and DC suddenly got to shambles because an EP ball group rushes in throught the open walls, they are not there to take that keep as they just mow everything over then run along the walls and never repair them. Now that keep stays flagged and no one wants to leave that fight because there will be a huge tick when its finally over, and that halts the map game. Now the changes to Seige will be interesting to see if they can hurt these ball stylers.

Agrippa_Invisus

SwampRaider wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

A portion of this is due to the fact that ESO is an aging game, with a declining PVP population due to performance and lack of content issues.

This is not a community that is getting enough new blood to replace the retirements and the burnouts. And as people vanish, each of the three factions weakens in different ways.

Right now EP is the Bandwagon faction, swelling their numbers a bit and strengthening them just when they don't need it. Those newer players are in for a harsh reality check when they don't have that lead to crutch on.

AD is the faction where you're either in a guild or you're cannon fodder for the meat grinder that is the AP farm. Not a lot between and due to that, not much gets accomplished if the guilds aren't on.

DC is the faction where everyone gets together and zergs one place down. Split them up and they're just not very impressive at the moment. They've lost every single one of their 'elite' guilds, much of which was the fault of other members of the faction, and are having to rebuild that from nothing.

I love playing "zerg the zone general down" it's a fun game.

As a DC raid leader of a meat grinder guild and a zone general, I haven't reached xylena or Agrippa status. I thankfully don't get zerged down

Considering I've been zerged down by the Bloodthorn blueberry brigade and the Wabbajack AD onslaught before, I can definitely say 'back in my day' we got zerged going up hill, both ways. These young whippersnappers don't know what a proper zerg is anymore.

But hey, if folks listen to me when I say stuff in /zone, it just shows their good taste and intelligence.

SwampRaider

So I haven't PVPd in Vivic for like a day and a half. How did the margin between DC and AD get even larger? I remember it being like 2,000 and now it's like past 4000

Agrippa_Invisus

SwampRaider wrote: »

So I haven't PVPd in Vivic for like a day and a half. How did the margin between DC and AD get even larger? I remember it being like 2,000 and now it's like past 4000

AD performing even more poorly than usual in off hours.

Early this morning while I checked from work, AD was sitting in Roe and had, literally, nothing else on the board. Not a resource, not a scroll. They did not have emp either. They just all apparently refused to leave the keep and let everything else get taken.

Consistent performance like that is going to just ruin your standing, and the morning AD have been utterly helpless lately.

SwampRaider

RIP Balanced PVP vivec

Agrippa_Invisus

SwampRaider wrote: »

RIP Balanced PVP vivec

Welp, I knew this was what things were going to start looking like when the main server for PC NA could no longer maintain a round the clock lock or at least a fairly balanced off hours population.

You're going to start seeing huge factional imbalances as one side drains players faster for one reason or another while the overall PVP population of ESO continues to founder and die.

This is a four year long process we've been involved in to get to this points. At this point, it's not something any player, group of players, guild, or faction are responsible for or are capable of correcting.

ZOS, the ball has and always will remain in your court, and there are a loooooooooot of games comes out that E3 just showed off that tell me that ESO PVP won't even make it to the end of the year.

My prediction is that ESO PVP will be dead and buried before Christmas, and no longer in its comatose, moribund state.

anadandy

SwampRaider wrote: »

So I haven't PVPd in Vivic for like a day and a half. How did the margin between DC and AD get even larger? I remember it being like 2,000 and now it's like past 4000

Purely anecdotal based on my recent experiences - it's because it seems like AD is in Shor locking it down. Every day I log in and it's DC and EP at trikeeps or less, zero scrolls. They don't even have their own towns. There is usually a little push by the other factions but map is yellow again shortly.

Durham

anadandy wrote: »

SwampRaider wrote: »

So I haven't PVPd in Vivic for like a day and a half. How did the margin between DC and AD get even larger? I remember it being like 2,000 and now it's like past 4000

Purely anecdotal based on my recent experiences - it's because it seems like AD is in Shor locking it down. Every day I log in and it's DC and EP at trikeeps or less, zero scrolls. They don't even have their own towns. There is usually a little push by the other factions but map is yellow again shortly.

No there is not a ton AD on shore ... just 10-12 that run and day cap ... Last night 8pm Red was 3 bars on Shore also ... maybe because they had a long Q on Vevic .. There was only 1 bar of yellow on Shore... Later in the night it was 2 bars yellow, blue, Red....

There are just more RED then the other two factions combined in PVP... PVP population has now declined to the point where Vevic weaker factions can no longer hold a constant dependable population.. Even on Shore when Qs add up on Vevic red it gets over ran with RED... Yellow are pushed back to the Tri-Keeps meanwhile on Shore Yellow is at 1 to 2 bars ... Vevic yellows are at 3 bars .... Also keep in mind most of the shore players tend to like the small scale fights not the faction stacks that happen on Vevic with lag reducing the game to slide shows for some people.....

Durham

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

A portion of this is due to the fact that ESO is an aging game, with a declining PVP population due to performance and lack of content issues.

This is not a community that is getting enough new blood to replace the retirements and the burnouts. And as people vanish, each of the three factions weakens in different ways.

Right now EP is the Bandwagon faction, swelling their numbers a bit and strengthening them just when they don't need it. Those newer players are in for a harsh reality check when they don't have that lead to crutch on.

AD is the faction where you're either in a guild or you're cannon fodder for the meat grinder that is the AP farm. Not a lot between and due to that, not much gets accomplished if the guilds aren't on.

DC is the faction where everyone gets together and zergs one place down. Split them up and they're just not very impressive at the moment. They've lost every single one of their 'elite' guilds, much of which was the fault of other members of the faction, and are having to rebuild that from nothing.

They also are have not supported and are making it pretty clear they do not intend to support PVP in this game ... Lack of a true combat balance in the last patch is evident of that ... Its simple ...only a small fraction of the people that play ESO are pvp oriented players ..most PVE !!! This game is a PVE game with tiny PVP population ...
This game could have rocked in PVP if they would have fixed the biggest glaring issue SEVER LAG !!!! Even after 3 years the lag is still here ... That is the death nail of PVP in this game ...

People that log into a PVP zone first complaint is "My abilities are not going off" OMG the lag.... Why would people play in this! This is the #1 issue for most people who try to come into PVP ... It is the reason that my guild moved off the main pvp server 2 years ago and have not looked back...

Gprime31

cause of all the faction stacking, unkillable magdk's and all the sloads...pvp is the worst it's ever been

RinaldoGandolphi

Speaking of DC myself and @Minno have not really had much of a presence at all in Vivec the last two cycles. Minno & Myself were two of the field generals for DC on PC-Na, we would make callouts, were always respectful to people in zone, would take 2-4 people and fight at resources in EP or AD gate keeps every night tying up EP or AD soldiers during the times DC was doing a major siege elsewhere

Sadly we have not played the campaign nor caused any types of distractions for sometime. Most of the field general responsibility now falls on Sooz who is just a fantastic individual but can’t do it all by themselves.

Cyrodiil has just been too laggy for us, and the changes they keep making to the game just make it easy mode for ball groups and zergs to dominate and they bring server killing lag with them thus so many just stopped bothering with Cyrodiil.

Minno and I mostly only play BG here and their when we’re online not farming mats or skill points. Neither of us want to bother being drowned in lag in Vivec. We always try to go in and leave within a few minutes because it’s unplayable. Minno always says “let’s go do BG this is terrible “ and that’s where we go.

To be frank I wouldn’t be surprised if they don’t shut Cyrodiil down or turn it into a PVE zone by the end of the year adding some quests to tie crowing a new Emp with the IC DLC and focusing PVP on BG. BG while not perfect at least work. I’m not a fan of no cp but at least I don’t lag to death all the time in their.

Cyrodiil as it is now is an awful
Experience for new players. Why would anyone want to play in a laggy zone dominated by ball groups and zags that cause lag? Hence why cyrodiil pop
Has confined to decline every update

Vilestride

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

SwampRaider wrote: »

RIP Balanced PVP vivec

Welp, I knew this was what things were going to start looking like when the main server for PC NA could no longer maintain a round the clock lock or at least a fairly balanced off hours population.

You're going to start seeing huge factional imbalances as one side drains players faster for one reason or another while the overall PVP population of ESO continues to founder and die.

This is a four year long process we've been involved in to get to this points. At this point, it's not something any player, group of players, guild, or faction are responsible for or are capable of correcting.

ZOS, the ball has and always will remain in your court, and there are a loooooooooot of games comes out that E3 just showed off that tell me that ESO PVP won't even make it to the end of the year.

My prediction is that ESO PVP will be dead and buried before Christmas, and no longer in its comatose, moribund state.

Pretty much this. After everything E3 had to offer Id be genuinely surprised to see more than 50 people in a server during prime time come the end of the year.

Grimfolly613

SwampRaider wrote: »

RIP Balanced PVP vivec

Yeah, the last few camps have been boring. I play ep only, considered rolling an AD just can't make myself do it. Just been leveling new toons and hitting battlegrounds.

NBrookus

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Cyrodiil as it is now is an awful
Experience for new players. Why would anyone want to play in a laggy zone dominated by ball groups and zags that cause lag? Hence why cyrodiil pop
Has confined to decline every update

Exactly. You can't get new blood interested when performance is this terrible.

Heimpai

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

AD and DC need more of a presence. More people, more guilds running, or even just more solo people running. EP not has the guilds but also a large amount of good solo players and small groups.
If AD stopped hiding in Shor and Sotha, we'd have more competition.

I agree to an extent, too many 750‘s in sotha but i wont be going to vivec till im really bored or at least 500cp, i won’t be an easy farm for everyone

Xsorus

Whats interesting is the Performance on days when all the ball groups are not running is fine, even with locked populations...soon as you get 2 or 3 of them running on the map the performance becomes awful. You can't even counter them with siege because Siege Weapons take like 20 seconds to fire.