Can we have a target healing dummy?

HowlKimchi

Pls? Then i'll put 3 of them side by side to test my healing. buff tracking would also be nice, but I guest that'd be an add-on.

Feanor

While nice I don’t think that’s absolutely necessary. Actual healing isn’t that hard. What’s hard about the healers job is maintaining all these buffs and group support with synergies and orbs/shards.

That’s when you get a Dwarven Centurion and work on your support game I guess.

HowlKimchi

Feanor wrote: »

While nice I don’t think that’s absolutely necessary. Actual healing isn’t that hard. What’s hard about the healers job is maintaining all these buffs and group support with synergies and orbs/shards.

That’s when you get a Dwarven Centurion and work on your support game I guess.

I agree that it isn't that hard. It might even make some unwanted competition like "i only want this class because it has the highest hps" but that's where the buff management add-on could help.

basically, I just want an in-game way to theorycraft and test builds similar to how it's done with dps specs. I love theorycrafting and testing, but Im not a big fan of dps.

What do you mean by getting a dwarven centurion?

Feanor

For testing your raid group setting you can get a Dwarven Centurion, the fortified version has 50 million HP. It’s like a raid boss in that regard. Granted, it doesn’t hit back. But you can at least work on your support game with your raid that way.

Many guild halls have one for that very purpose. You can get it for master writ vouchers or in guild stores. It’s quite costly though because the ingredients are expensive. For a guild it should be easily obtainable though.

HowlKimchi

Feanor wrote: »

For testing your raid group setting you can get a Dwarven Centurion, the fortified version has 50 million HP. It’s like a raid boss in that regard. Granted, it doesn’t hit back. But you can at least work on your support game with your raid that way.

Many guild halls have one for that very purpose. You can get it for master writ vouchers or in guild stores. It’s quite costly though because the ingredients are expensive. For a guild it should be easily obtainable though.

Ah yeah, I forgot it was called that. xD

My guild has that. It's pretty hard to get some guildmates on just to test a specific build though . And I also want to maximize the healing aspect of my class.

mocap

find ~5 zombies, start fight. Cast any HoTs you want. Make sure you don't have Quick Recovery passive. Make sure Combat Metric showing you real time HoT. Finish the fight whenever you want (obviously, don't use skills with self-heals like Sweeps). Open Combat Metric for details.

Better than nothing )

Ozstryker

I get what op is after... I brought this up a while back, can ZOS not just add healing numbers to a dummy (even if the dummy is not damaged?!) then we could theorycraft different healer/dd builds etc.

ArchMikem

Feanor wrote: »

While nice I don’t think that’s absolutely necessary. Actual healing isn’t that hard. What’s hard about the healers job is maintaining all these buffs and group support with synergies and orbs/shards.

That’s when you get a Dwarven Centurion and work on your support game I guess.

Healing only gets hard when your group dont do their jobs. I actually had a PuG today where i was a better tank than the actual tank... And god forbid your tank doesnt use a taunt at all.

Tasear

Sounds like you are apart a consistent way to test yourself and improve yourself?

HowlKimchi

Yeah basically, what I want is to make theorycrafting as healers more accessible.

AbysmalGhul

I couldn't imagine a world where zone chat fills up with " 38k heal per second lf trials group"

Swifigames

I've often wished I could test beneficial skills on a friendly dummy.

HEXENWOLF

HaruyukiHana wrote: »

Pls? Then i'll put 3 of them side by side to test my healing. buff tracking would also be nice, but I guest that'd be an add-on.

Yes. I think this would be a smart move. I'd also like tanking dummies. Warcraft has had these for ages now. No reason for ESO not to have them.

FlyLionel

Can we get a dummy that we can add effects to like ele drain and worm for dps testing, instead of having to rely on another player entirely.

commdt

Id like every dummy to have a dialog in which you can set its behavior i.e.
1. Whether it will be permanently debuffed by major fracture/breach
2. Whether it will fight back
3. Whether it will be undead/daedra to count towards fighters guild abilities and prismatic weapon
4. Whether it will be friendly for buffing purposes
3. And whatever else

FakeFox

I wouldn't mind it, but I don't see much use for it. There is really no point in testing healing done outside of specific situations and for training buff uptimes you don't need a dummy.

Tasear

HaruyukiHana wrote: »

Yeah basically, what I want is to make theorycrafting as healers more accessible.

join us in healer's discord?
https://discord.gg/TfjSbu9

Thekingofwei

You can tank dummy if you want, keeping taunt is nothing hard at all, do it with a group and try go keep 100% crusher and Alkosh.

OP I see your point, but unfortunately it is requires slightly more results than that. Healers should maintain high if not perfect combat prayer, should keep the orbs and shards up for people to regain their resources and other ways of supporting the team. The easiest way, for me, is to go to vAA and test things there in a somewhat difficult environment with minimum movement/mechanics. Then increase the difficulty it to the healer's favourites(vHoF and vSO). Starting with normal trials first is perfectly fine, too. What server are you on? People tend to offer help to people looking for it on these forums.

shaielzafine

Whenever I make new healer toons, I just go find some target healing dummies in pvp / Cyrodiil. I also duel people if I'm testing self heals / tankiness for pvp builds. Of course, if we're talking more about group buffs rather than just heals per second, you want to go in with your usual raid group (either pve or pvp guild) and compare performance by asking them & by using addons. Your dps' combat metrics will show combat prayer uptime & other buffs applied. Add-ons like sanct's ultimate organizer in pvp show healing output from everyone if you want to look at & compare total heals from the templar vs warden vs nb in group. Realistically, a healing target dummy in houses wouldn't be that useful since you can't simulate incoming damage for your group (like for example fall damage or if there's mechanics in pve, or in pvp every fight is different even if you're up against the same enemy players, so you can't really simulate incoming damage either).

DoonerSeraph

Try the Group Finder, you will be amazed at how many dummies you can find there to heal

BaneOfBattler

I am amazed of the amount of people flaming on the guy and telling him to go test on world or dungeons.

Well my braindead-dps guys, it would be a good idea to have a 25% hp dummy to test some heals as well, oh because healing is not so popular (because it actually requires a brain) then we have to go try world or pve? oh no thats horrible, instead lets approve the nobraindps trend that we are living today yes? *open garbage bag, throws brain in*

yes i support the idea , in fact i had to duel everytime to test my 59k healing, what a stupid idea would be to get a dummy for healing yes?

fcnrtrd

jaschacasadiob16_ESO

What's the point of healing a dummy when there are neither enemies nor oh sheet situations?

Wanna test your healing? Solo heal nMOL or vAA with no deaths.

DoonerSeraph

BaneOfBattler wrote: »

I am amazed of the amount of people flaming on the guy and telling him to go test on world or dungeons.

Well my braindead-dps guys, it would be a good idea to have a 25% hp dummy to test some heals as well, oh because healing is not so popular (because it actually requires a brain) then we have to go try world or pve? oh no thats horrible, instead lets approve the nobraindps trend that we are living today yes? *open garbage bag, throws brain in*

yes i support the idea , in fact i had to duel everytime to test my 59k healing, what a stupid idea would be to get a dummy for healing yes?

fcnrtrd

If you really are a healer, you should understand why a healing dummy is not that helpful at all.

Being a healer is preventing, mitigating and anticipate damage. For that, knowing mechanics is essential. None of that can be learnt by using a dummy.

Also, we don't need toxic comments like yours in the forums, not even speaking about assuming that everyone who is against the idea approves of a "dps mentality", or calling people "r...", or telling DPS they are braindead. Get your brain back from the garbage bin and try using it for a change.

Don't cut yourself in that edge, boy/girl.

DuskMarine

HaruyukiHana wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

While nice I don’t think that’s absolutely necessary. Actual healing isn’t that hard. What’s hard about the healers job is maintaining all these buffs and group support with synergies and orbs/shards.

That’s when you get a Dwarven Centurion and work on your support game I guess.

I agree that it isn't that hard. It might even make some unwanted competition like "i only want this class because it has the highest hps" but that's where the buff management add-on could help.

basically, I just want an in-game way to theorycraft and test builds similar to how it's done with dps specs. I love theorycrafting and testing, but Im not a big fan of dps.

What do you mean by getting a dwarven centurion?

dont need one as a dummy wont accurately peg your hps at all. you have to run with someone in a vet trial or dungeon

Vercingetorix

How would a "healing dummy" work exactly? Players take random amounts of damage at random intervals, depending on what the boss does and the player's actions in response to them - none of this can be reliably simulated. Trying to emulate human player movements and incoming damage on a dummy sounds nice on paper, but in practice is impossible.

The best way to improve yourself as a healer is to just play the content and adjust your healing placement in each activity as needed. The heal amount needed is always the amount that keeps the group alive - there is no strict HPS requirement in the game like there is with DPS.

Jameliel

Healing is the easiest role in this game. If you want to see your stats, just get Heal Counter addon if you're on PC. Only using CP's, passives and with decent sustain, you can throw out good heals. You probably already know/use most of the well-known sets. In PvE they are probably more necessary than in PvP. I've tested a ton of them, and for PvP, tankish armor's by far outperform light healing sets. As long as you allocate your CP's, max your passives correctly and have good sustain, then your heals will be great.

You can wear all the sets and use enchantments/traits that directly boost the amount you heal, but in PvP you will go down in 2-3 seconds if you get focused by someone with high crits/decent damage, or 2-3 mediocre players. On the other hand, you can wear several combinations of heavy armor. You will mitigate tons of damage, and the lower your health goes, you will become even more resistant. Using the correct enchantment's/traits on your weapons, you can reduce the enemies spell and weapon damage, reduce their healing received/damage health. Lots of ways to be useful to your group. If you're dead, and can barely make it through a zergball, you cant heal anyone.

That isn't to say there is any invincible build in the game. For every build, there is a counter-build. If you get major defiled, poisoned and focused at the same time, you're going down regardless of armor type; if you can't escape using LOS objects, or if you don't have enough hard-hitting DPS in your group to take down the enemies focusing you.

Aesthier

Healing dummy:

Its life begins to deteriorate, the longer you go the faster the life goes away.

Random debuffs poisons etc pop on it requiring healers to not only heal but purge/cleanse at regular intervals.

mateoz

Aesthier wrote: »

Healing dummy:

Its life begins to deteriorate, the longer you go the faster the life goes away.

Random debuffs poisons etc pop on it requiring healers to not only heal but purge/cleanse at regular intervals.

It should also move out of the heal like you see in pug so you have to chase it to heal properly

pauli133

The complexity of healing in real content means that there's a real danger of any simple, synthetic, dummy-based healing benchmark being counterproductive.

I think the best way to instrument it would be a small dedicated dungeon, with friendly NPCs representing the rest of the party. Time to complete, max/average buffs, total healing, average/low hp, deaths, etc would be useful metrics.

...but that's a lot more than I'd expect ZOS to invest in.

Aisle9

Here's the problem with a healing dummy.

In order to check your hps you need a damaged target, because you can't heal something at full health.

But how do you reset it ?

Damage dummies you can just kill and they will reset, but healing dummies, once you healed them to max health, they will be at max health, and you can't exactly kill them, because they're friendlies.

Then you have the problem of status effects. You have a number of things that could happen to prevent healing, like defiled.

You would want to test with or without.

Then you'll want to check the uptime of buffs and debuffs, like spc and combat prayer, but that doesn't come out from your recap, and you can't open the dummy's recap, because ESO doesn't allow group parsing or friendlies parsing.

Point is, a healing dummy would be pretty hard to make, unless you can settle to just healing, no status effects, then wait till it naturally reset to 1 HP on it's own, which would be pretty useless for any kind of competitive measurement, since HPS on DDs is capped between 17k and 19k (max HP) and HPS on the tank is capped at 38k (or whatever's the current meta for tonks), as you can't heal past max health, or outheal oneshots, which is why it's a pretty common understanding that anything past 15k hps is kinda useless, as you're overhealing already, which is why healers usually take care of buffs and debuffs more than healing itself.

Unless you simply want to practice your rotation, which is possible without a dummy.

Long story short, not bashing on your request, just clarifying why it would not be a simple task to implement it.

As for "test it in dungeons", ofc if you want to theorycraft you're better off doing it in the comfort of your home, without the need to ask people to help you out, but having a friend share the results is a much more effective way to test stuff out, specifically buffs uptime (SPC, Combat Prayer, Horn). You can also choose specific bosses that apply specific debuffs, to test different situations.

Problem is, DDs apply debuffs to an enemy target, that can be measured easily, because the game already allows it.

Healers apply buffs to friendlies, that the game is not set up to measure. The only way to do it would be to actually have another person separately parsing and then share the results.

IMO.

Then again I may be wrong about it.

fred4

On a related note, how about a dummy that attacks you and procs 7th Legion, Thunderbug, SPC, or whatever else you're wearing? Not that those sets would be used for PvE, but dummy parses also give an indication of your PvP damage. Not actual damage, but comparative (burst) damage between different setups.