Guild Store Etiquette

josiahva

Other (please state way)

Seems to me you are making a mountain out of a molehill. These were all common green recipes, the guy paid for them(supposedly). Its not like there was anything of any real value taken...and it really doesn't matter why he took them. Is there any real difference if he took them to learn them? I mean, he didn't even have to tell you the reason for taking them. I myself almost never withdraw anything from the guild bank, but I have no compunction about doing so. Was he wrong to take them? No. Was he wrong to take ALL of them? Yes. The reason doesn't matter to me here, just the degree.

NordSwordnBoard

No (why not)

If they didn't tell you the "truth" and told you they were helping new people level crafting, would you follow up and interview the "recipients"? What they did was not necessarily "wrong" by your existing standards afaik.

Violynne wrote: »

The rules of the bank are pretty simple: take what you need, place what you don't. It's an honor system, and most of the items contained within the bank are relatively common. I've personally placed rarer items into the bank knowing I could sell them, but new players don't always have access to gobs of gold.

"Trust banks" have been victims before, and I'm sure they'll be victims again. In this situation, there is no literal rule stating items cannot be withdrawn from the bank to start a new guild.

This situation is comparable to charity - Nobody should be judged on what they give or take, until they consistently show poor behavior and take advantage. I've dealt with weasels like that myself, and had to screenshot transactions to prove them liars in PSN messages in front of other guild officers. The petty drama is not worth it IMO.

You have to resign yourself to not care, or structure rules to prevent this behavior through ranks and officer interaction. Convenience and trust are weak spots to be exploited by the lesser folk out there. Setting up rules may seem over the top sometimes, but its better than appearing Draconian with unwritten rules after the incident takes place.

Wildcopper

Yes

Using the guild bank to fund another guild is like giving money to a competitor, not to mention items in the guild bank aren't made for personal enrichment but to help guild members.

So what that guy did is definitely wrong. If I was in charge, he'd be in trouble.

Bam_Bam

So.....Auction House. Problem solved.

Violynne

josiahva wrote: »

Seems to me you are making a mountain out of a molehill. These were all common green recipes, the guy paid for them(supposedly). Its not like there was anything of any real value taken...and it really doesn't matter why he took them. Is there any real difference if he took them to learn them?

Considering the person took every single recipe, yes, there is a tremendous difference on the reason.

You also need to evaluate your definition of "value" because not everything has to come down to money. This may not be a "molehill/mountain" issue, but it is one in which needs to be addressed.

The guild's motto says it all: "Take what you need, give what you don't."

The fact that "and build your own guild with it" wasn't included is where I'm trying to determine if the action was justified, gold spent or not.

If we remove the gold from the discussion, would this still be a molehill?

Xerikten

Yes

yes

from the information provided it was selfish dickish move but the said person thinks he did nothing wrong as hey paid for it. such a attitude isn't all that rare now days unfortunately.

today you MUST have guidelines to promote ethics and values. if your guild has no such guidelines or ones ambiguous then you invite such behavior. sadly now too many people are in their own little world with their needs being only that which count.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Yes

Violynne wrote: »

If we remove the gold from the discussion, would this still be a molehill?

Those recipes are worth nothing. It's the intention that's hurts, not the purse. The problem is, once we offer something, we have no power over what's done with it - let alone the intention behind it.
I wouldn't think too much of it, though.

RexyCat

Danikat wrote: »

Like most things there's no set rules, it depends on the guild. In one of my guilds the bank is essentially a dumping ground - you put things in there if you don't want to delete them but don't care what happens to them, and people are free to take anything out for any reason they like.

In another the guild officers encourage people to put in things they think would be useful to lower level/newer players and only officers can withdraw - you tell them what you want and why and they decide if you deserve it.

If your guild's rules are that recipes are only to be taken for your own use in doing dailies or to help progress their own crafters then that's fine but ideally people need to be told before taking them out.

You left out that it is possible to ask in guild chat or by PM, if guild would mind that you take some things in bank and replace it with other items or gold.

idk

Other (please state way)

Yes, bank is build on a trust system, but if he paid a reasonable value for the recipes it is hard to see him as violating that trust.

Beyond that, if the guild leadership wants to alter the rules as a result of this, that is their prerogative, but I do not see this as a bug deal as presented.

BaneOfBattler

Im guildmaster of my guild, we are 40 people, and i have it unlocked for my most actives members which i have full trust on them, for the rest of members is locked.

Lock it up, dont have more problems

NordSwordnBoard

No (why not)

@Violynne

Update your guild's motto to: "Take what you need, give what you don't." (Subject to approval by guild officers.)

Violynne wrote: »

If we remove the gold from the discussion, would this still be a molehill?

Yes, it would still be a molehill. Your guild didn't collapse did it? If the person didn't deposit anything because they need everything they have, they are still following the motto. It's a selfish move, everybody seems to agree on that. I think you've now learned how to prevent it from happening again at this point.

You can enforce rules much easier than forcing a certain etiquette.

ghastley

Other (please state way)

Voted other, because I'm sure there's more involved that than what's on the surface. If the items are in the guild bank with no rules governing who can take what, then why does anyone question taking them? An answer of "the bank was getting full, so I cleared out the low-level stuff" could have been good enough, and might have been appreciated. A lot depends on how the guild uses its bank, and that's not clear here.

I suspect it's just the mention of another guild, and the "loyalty" aspect.

During the recent Jubilee event, everyone in my guild was depositing duplicate motifs in the guild bank, free for anyone else to grab. We all gained from pooling our luck, and spreading it around. Inevitably, some got out more than they put in, or vice-versa. We tend to do the same with recipes, furnishing plans etc. as even when something is really rare, the game will mock you by providing a duplicate. (RNG is really AI - you need it, you can't have it, but don't care, and here's two).

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Yes

Wrong, yes.

But that’s what happens when you give people bank access.

Loralai_907

Other (please state way)

I don't know if it was wrong or not, depends on the guilds actual written rules. But, it was a jerk move in my opinion. I don't know of any guild that would be like, here take all of this stuff intended to assist our guild members, and use it help your very own start up guild instead! Maybe they paid for the items, maybe they didn't, but that is besides the point.

I run a very small local guild, and everything that I put in the bank is to help other members. It wouldn't necessarily kill me to have a bunch of things taken, but it would be annoying if it were for that reason. Even with my super small guild, not everyone gets access to the guild bank. I think that is really important, too many people out there have talked about bad experiences, so its best to try to avoid that as much as possible. If someone were to pull a stunt like that with me, they would immediately lose access to the bank. Easy fix. And if they wanted to be a jerk about it, they would then be gone.

NyassaV

Yes

If it was a trade build it might make sense but this sounds like just an average guild that might have a trader but isn't a focused trade guild.

Diminish

No (why not)

Why is what he did wrong; rather he gave gold or not? People put items in a bank that others have access to, and no way to force stipulations upon. It sucks if he essentially ripped off the guild, but at the same time he technically had permission to do so since he had guild bank access to begin with.

In the end, it is just another showcase of the flaws with the guild system in this game... well, that and the fact it was green recipes you are all being salty about...

kargen27

The guilds I am in (other than trader guild) have a policy of take what you need and replace when you can. Basically if you see a recipe you want to learn you can take it. If you can replace it with a same level recipe that is nice but not required. Taking out items to give to people outside the guild or to sell is frowned upon.

They all explain the bank policy though when a new member gets access to the bank. The guild I am an officer of is fairly lenient on allowing people to take green and blue items but if it becomes obvious they are taking much more than they are putting in and that it isn't just for their own use they get reminded of the rules and are told if it continues they will be unable to remove items from the bank and will instead have to ask officers for items. So far we have had that be an issue only twice. One got rude about it and left the guild and the other got better about trying to replace what they took.

My personal feeling is things in the guild bank are for guild members only.

Pink_Violinz

No (why not)

Unless you have written rules about this I don't see the issue. He is/was a member of the guild and paid for everything he took. Everyone has their own uses and needs to items they have taken from the bank. It's not fantastic he took everything, but it doesn't look like you specified not to in the first place.

STEVIL

guilds set their own policies.

there is no universal guild commandments.

SugaComa

Other (please state way)

Let's be honest ... If they were all green the bank will refill with them in a few days ... Take the hold n shut up moaning is what I say ... I'm sick of the sight of some recipes in the guild banks you should be thanking him

jssriot

Other (please state way)

If the guild admin don't mind it, then there's not a lot you can do. if they do, they can kick the individual. They legitly do not need to explain themselves. It's the guild bank, and protecting it is their pejorative and if they felt someone was a threat to guild bank security, that person needs to be gone and blacklisted. And ZOS will back them up on this (trust me on this one).

I can understand why in some guilds, people wouldn't care, so there's no one size fits all reply to this, but in my own opinion, what this player did wasn't cool. They should respected that the guild bank wasn't their personal depot and checked with the guild admin first to see if an exchange for the recipes for gold would be acceptable (and hey, getting credit for giving the guild gold is never something you should pass up on). The main offense here isn't the actual value of the recipes--it's that technically the guild bank and its content aren't that player's property, even if they had access. Even if you friends let you into their house and let you grab a coke from their fridge, you don't go back and take all their food and drink and then do whatever you want with it. Communal sharing does not grant someone proprietorial rights. C'mon, people.

kargen27

SugaComa wrote: »

Let's be honest ... If they were all green the bank will refill with them in a few days ... Take the hold n shut up moaning is what I say ... I'm sick of the sight of some recipes in the guild banks you should be thanking him

Some green recipes are extremely hard to find. The level 25 and 30 ones seem the hardest to find. Took me a lot of searching to finally get them all.