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Instead of trying to balance morphs and seesaw nerf them, why not make one a PVP skill?
Knowledge
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I think this is the simplest solution so builds don't have to constantly go through up-and-down nerfs or changes to skill lines. Make one morph PVP oriented and the other PVE oriented.
3
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idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Many skills have one morph stamina and one morph magicka so it is not possible to do as suggested. Knowledge of these things sheds light on it.3 -
Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭Many skills have one morph stamina and one morph magicka so it is not possible to do as suggested. Knowledge of these things sheds light on it.
Right but what I am proposing is that you have four morphs.
Two PVE morph and two PVP morph.
There would be one stamina PVE morph and one Magicka PVE morph.
There would be one stamina PVP morph and one Magicka PVP morph.Edited by Knowledge on June 1, 2018 2:24AM1 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If every skill has a magicka and a stamina morph, then you are shoehorning classes more than they already are.
If you are a magicka character, you pretty much have no choice of morph when it comes to certain skills. You always have to pick the magicka skill. And the same goes for stamina.
Also, how would you make this work for people who want to PvP and PvE? Would they have to make characters exclusive for each?
Right now, you can just go to Cyrodiil and have a good time on any character, even if you didn't pick the PvP morphs.The Moot Councillor0 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭Many skills have one morph stamina and one morph magicka so it is not possible to do as suggested. Knowledge of these things sheds light on it.
Right but what I am proposing is that you have four morphs.
Two PVE morph and two PVP morph.
There would be one stamina PVE morph and one Magicka PVE morph.
There would be one stamina PVP morph and one Magicka PVP morpg.
I'm all for one morph being centered around utility (and thus more of a concern for PvP and solo play), and the other morph centered around raw damage (PvE group play).
But certainly not an additional two morphs for every skill in the game solely for PvP use. How many will just be the same as their PvE counterpart?
And if this is only for a few select skills... No. An entire skill-line I could see, but then you're just better off making those morphs into skills for a new skill-line itself (IE Assault and Support), and reworking the problem skill.Edited by Avran_Sylt on June 1, 2018 2:29AM0 -
Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭If every skill has a magicka and a stamina morph, then you are shoehorning classes more than they already are.
If you are a magicka character, you pretty much have no choice of morph when it comes to certain skills. You always have to pick the magicka skill. And the same goes for stamina.
Also, how would you make this work for people who want to PvP and PvE? Would they have to make characters exclusive for each?
Right now, you can just go to Cyrodiil and have a good time on any character, even if you didn't pick the PvP morphs.
You have four morphs. Two PVP and Two PVE. One for stam one for magicka for each.1 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭If every skill has a magicka and a stamina morph, then you are shoehorning classes more than they already are.
If you are a magicka character, you pretty much have no choice of morph when it comes to certain skills. You always have to pick the magicka skill. And the same goes for stamina.
Also, how would you make this work for people who want to PvP and PvE? Would they have to make characters exclusive for each?
Right now, you can just go to Cyrodiil and have a good time on any character, even if you didn't pick the PvP morphs.
You have four morphs. Two PVP and Two PVE. One for stam one for magicka for each.
(Skill-points are limited)0 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If every skill has a magicka and a stamina morph, then you are shoehorning classes more than they already are.
If you are a magicka character, you pretty much have no choice of morph when it comes to certain skills. You always have to pick the magicka skill. And the same goes for stamina.
Also, how would you make this work for people who want to PvP and PvE? Would they have to make characters exclusive for each?
Right now, you can just go to Cyrodiil and have a good time on any character, even if you didn't pick the PvP morphs.
You have four morphs. Two PVP and Two PVE. One for stam one for magicka for each.
So if a character is magicka or stamina based they don't have a choice which morph they pick anymore?The Moot Councillor0 -
Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭If every skill has a magicka and a stamina morph, then you are shoehorning classes more than they already are.
If you are a magicka character, you pretty much have no choice of morph when it comes to certain skills. You always have to pick the magicka skill. And the same goes for stamina.
Also, how would you make this work for people who want to PvP and PvE? Would they have to make characters exclusive for each?
Right now, you can just go to Cyrodiil and have a good time on any character, even if you didn't pick the PvP morphs.
You have four morphs. Two PVP and Two PVE. One for stam one for magicka for each.
So if a character is magicka or stamina based they don't have a choice which morph they pick anymore?
No, they can choose the PVE one or PVP one.1 -
WaltherCarraway✭✭✭✭✭Don’t really want PvP/PvE separation.Back from my last hiatus. 2021 a new start.0 -
LegacyDM✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think this is the simplest solution so builds don't have to constantly go through up-and-down nerfs or changes to skill lines. Make one morph PVP oriented and the other PVE oriented.
That's sort of the direction they have quietly moved in. I play a mageblade. They made many skills better for pve versus pvp and vice versus. Look at the latest baffling change to strife. The entire skill is now better off for pve while force shock is better in pvp. One could make the same arguement about cloak. One morph deals 100% crit with a hide and the other just heals you. Obviously the healing version would be much more useful in pve.
Looks as if they are somewhat ding what you say but at a more selective level. Which actually cuts down on build possibilities and makes things more cookie cutter. I believe they want more cookie cutter cause t makes it easier for them to balance skills.Edited by LegacyDM on June 1, 2018 3:12AMLegacy of Kain
Vicious Carnage
¥ampire Lord of the South1 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If every skill has a magicka and a stamina morph, then you are shoehorning classes more than they already are.
If you are a magicka character, you pretty much have no choice of morph when it comes to certain skills. You always have to pick the magicka skill. And the same goes for stamina.
Also, how would you make this work for people who want to PvP and PvE? Would they have to make characters exclusive for each?
Right now, you can just go to Cyrodiil and have a good time on any character, even if you didn't pick the PvP morphs.
You have four morphs. Two PVP and Two PVE. One for stam one for magicka for each.
So if a character is magicka or stamina based they don't have a choice which morph they pick anymore?
No, they can choose the PVE one or PVP one.
Meaning they do not get a choice. At least not one most players will want to make. You are proposing a player must decide if his character is going to be PvP or PvE then after making that choice all other choices are made for them.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."0 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If every skill has a magicka and a stamina morph, then you are shoehorning classes more than they already are.
If you are a magicka character, you pretty much have no choice of morph when it comes to certain skills. You always have to pick the magicka skill. And the same goes for stamina.
Also, how would you make this work for people who want to PvP and PvE? Would they have to make characters exclusive for each?
Right now, you can just go to Cyrodiil and have a good time on any character, even if you didn't pick the PvP morphs.
You have four morphs. Two PVP and Two PVE. One for stam one for magicka for each.
So if a character is magicka or stamina based they don't have a choice which morph they pick anymore?
No, they can choose the PVE one or PVP one.
And how are they going to be different? Is one only going to affect players and the other only going to affect mobs?
For example, a sorc can morph their familiar into the samp (Volatile) or the clannfear. How would you make one of them stamina? how would you make one PvP?
You would be removing the choice of sorcs. Right now they can choose one or the other. With your suggestion, they will have to pick a role they want and be stuck with no choice.The Moot Councillor0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think this would require the ability to save certain skill specs so I didn't have to completely remorph skills one at a time every time I went from PVE to PVP or vice versa on the same character.0 -
Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think this is the simplest solution so builds don't have to constantly go through up-and-down nerfs or changes to skill lines. Make one morph PVP oriented and the other PVE oriented.
That's sort of the direction they have quietly moved in. I play a mageblade. They made many skills better for pve versus pvp and vice versus. Look at the latest baffling change to strife. The entire skill is now better off for pve while force shock is better in pvp. One could make the same arguement about cloak. One morph deals 100% crit with a hide and the other just heals you. Obviously the healing version would be much more useful in pve.
Looks as if they are somewhat ding what you say but at a more selective level. Which actually cuts down on build possibilities and makes things more cookie cutter. I believe they want more cookie cutter cause t makes it easier for them to balance skills.
Well, remember how much variety there was in World of Warcraft? The developers realized it was just better to have limited options for the sake of balance. If I had to choose between balance and variety I'd choose balance. Players don't take advantage of the variety anyway (always choose meta).0 -
Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭VaranisArano wrote: »I think this would require the ability to save certain skill specs so I didn't have to completely remorph skills one at a time every time I went from PVE to PVP or vice versa on the same character.
Just offer players a PVP setup and PVE setup. When you join PVP it swaps to your chosen setup.1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Many skills have one morph stamina and one morph magicka so it is not possible to do as suggested. Knowledge of these things sheds light on it.
Right but what I am proposing is that you have four morphs.
Two PVE morph and two PVP morph.
There would be one stamina PVE morph and one Magicka PVE morph.
There would be one stamina PVP morph and one Magicka PVP morph.
Might want to make that clear in your OP. I expect you have the Knowledge that we cannot read your mind and that it is not a good idea to assume things.
Doubling the morphs though does not improve anything because players will use what morph works best for them in a given situation so it really becomes a waste of effort.
Basically if the PvE morph is OP in PvP do you really think anyone with Knowledge is going to use the PvP morph? Zos also will not want to make an overly complicated system that would block the use of certain morphs in PvP and doubling the choices also makes things more complicated.
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Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭Many skills have one morph stamina and one morph magicka so it is not possible to do as suggested. Knowledge of these things sheds light on it.
Right but what I am proposing is that you have four morphs.
Two PVE morph and two PVP morph.
There would be one stamina PVE morph and one Magicka PVE morph.
There would be one stamina PVP morph and one Magicka PVP morph.
Might want to make that clear in your OP. I expect you have the Knowledge that we cannot read your mind and that it is not a good idea to assume things.
Doubling the morphs though does not improve anything because players will use what morph works best for them in a given situation so it really becomes a waste of effort.
Basically if the PvE morph is OP in PvP do you really think anyone with Knowledge is going to use the PvP morph? Zos also will not want to make an overly complicated system that would block the use of certain morphs in PvP and doubling the choices also makes things more complicated.
1
When you use my name as a pun and/or meme it upsets me.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Many skills have one morph stamina and one morph magicka so it is not possible to do as suggested. Knowledge of these things sheds light on it.
Right but what I am proposing is that you have four morphs.
Two PVE morph and two PVP morph.
There would be one stamina PVE morph and one Magicka PVE morph.
There would be one stamina PVP morph and one Magicka PVP morph.
Might want to make that clear in your OP. I expect you have the Knowledge that we cannot read your mind and that it is not a good idea to assume things.
Doubling the morphs though does not improve anything because players will use what morph works best for them in a given situation so it really becomes a waste of effort.
Basically if the PvE morph is OP in PvP do you really think anyone with Knowledge is going to use the PvP morph? Zos also will not want to make an overly complicated system that would block the use of certain morphs in PvP and doubling the choices also makes things more complicated.
1
When you use my name as a pun and/or meme it upsets me.
Sorry to upset you, but you did make your forum name Knowledge. I am sure I am not the first to play with the name.2 -
Beardimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭1. No. This would be ridiculous clutter on the UI
2. The solution doesn't link to the suggested problem. The insinuation is around PvE balance impacting PvP and vice versa (added i assume to gartner interest from the 'seperate PvP/PvE balance' crew who think PvP nerfed their meta setup and so on. However this would not fix balance yoyoing.
Strength of skills would still change and yoyo just on each side. And besides -
3. In a game of diversity like this why pigeon hole builds further. All skills have a use if you build around it. This would be very dull change with no diversity exactly what we don't need.
But another thread Into strawman solution, i guess i have the knowledge to understand how these go.Xbox One | EU | EP
Beardimus : VR16 Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-2018 & Sheogorath 05-2019
1st Emperor of RavenwatchAlts - - for the Lolz
Archimus : Bosmer Thief / Archer / Werewolf
Orcimus : Fat drunk Orc battlefield 1st aider
Scalimus - Argonian Sorc Healer / Pet master
Fighting small scale with : The SAXON Guild
Fighting with [PvP] : The Undaunted Wolves
Trading Guilds : TradersOfNirn | FourSquareTraders
Xbox One | NA | EP
Bëardimus : L43 Dunmer Magsorc / BG
Heals-With-Pets : VR16 Argonian Sorc PvP / BG Healer
Nordimus : VR16 Stamsorc
Beardimus le 13iem : L30 Dunmer Magsorc Icereach0 -
Beardimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »I think this would require the ability to save certain skill specs so I didn't have to completely remorph skills one at a time every time I went from PVE to PVP or vice versa on the same character.
Just offer players a PVP setup and PVE setup. When you join PVP it swaps to your chosen setup.
Now this is an entirely separate point and one i would support which is a mannequin for housing to save our gear skill, morph and CP setups onto to allow any easy swap between content.
As suggested here would not work.Xbox One | EU | EP
Beardimus : VR16 Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-2018 & Sheogorath 05-2019
1st Emperor of RavenwatchAlts - - for the Lolz
Archimus : Bosmer Thief / Archer / Werewolf
Orcimus : Fat drunk Orc battlefield 1st aider
Scalimus - Argonian Sorc Healer / Pet master
Fighting small scale with : The SAXON Guild
Fighting with [PvP] : The Undaunted Wolves
Trading Guilds : TradersOfNirn | FourSquareTraders
Xbox One | NA | EP
Bëardimus : L43 Dunmer Magsorc / BG
Heals-With-Pets : VR16 Argonian Sorc PvP / BG Healer
Nordimus : VR16 Stamsorc
Beardimus le 13iem : L30 Dunmer Magsorc Icereach2 -
MattT1988✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Many skills have one morph stamina and one morph magicka so it is not possible to do as suggested. Knowledge of these things sheds light on it.
Right but what I am proposing is that you have four morphs.
Two PVE morph and two PVP morph.
There would be one stamina PVE morph and one Magicka PVE morph.
There would be one stamina PVP morph and one Magicka PVP morph.
Might want to make that clear in your OP. I expect you have the Knowledge that we cannot read your mind and that it is not a good idea to assume things.
Doubling the morphs though does not improve anything because players will use what morph works best for them in a given situation so it really becomes a waste of effort.
Basically if the PvE morph is OP in PvP do you really think anyone with Knowledge is going to use the PvP morph? Zos also will not want to make an overly complicated system that would block the use of certain morphs in PvP and doubling the choices also makes things more complicated.
1
When you use my name as a pun and/or meme it upsets me.
Seriously?! FMD your precious.Edited by MattT1988 on June 1, 2018 7:05AM0 -
mongoLC✭✭✭✭why you crying? your perfect pvp skill is block/heavy attack. you don't need anything else.0
