[Class Rep] Healing Feedback Thread

mooslacker

In PvE content, healers should actually be needed because they heal, not mainly because they buff the group.

That brings us to the issue why the purely healing based buffs to non-Templars/Wardens are not enough to make them optimal Trial healers. They do not offer enough group support to justify not running Templar+Warden.


Since the 'healer is mainly there for support' probably will not change, something like the following might work?

DK healers could double as possible Templar alternatives, since they too have strong single target burst healing. Give them class based alternative to Templar shards and they're in.

Sorcs/Nightblades could buff the group better (Sorc buffs Minor Intellect, while Warden also buffs Minor Endurance, both in one spell.. Nightblade just does speed.)

Greasytengu

I currently use 2 very different healers on a regular basis, my Magicka Templar healer, and my Stam Warden healer (Ive actually been maining as a Stamden healer for almost a year!). 90% of my healing is done in PVP although I have dipped my toes in PVE, but haven't had to heal any Vet trials yet so ill keep my concerns to PVP content.

Magicka Healers:

1. The cost of Purge is WAAAAY too high.("Efficient Purge" costs 5130, while "purge" and"Cleanse" cost 8100 Magicka!!) I know its a usefull skill and its cost should have weight, but its getting to the point where we have to designate someone to to be our purger (Running "Efficient Purge" and specific sets for regen) so the other heals can use their Magicka to actually heal. Cleansing Ritual and its morphs are useful, but between the lag and the general chaos of a large battle, its synergy often goes unpopped. As it is now, nobody uses the "Cleanse" morph of "Purge" because its cost is just plain ludicrous. While its bonus heal is nice, the cost makes it too prohibitive to use. All morphs of "Purge" could use a cost reduction and "Cleanse" could use a buff to make it a little more appealing (more effects removed, or more healing, or heal per effect removed, or even a remove effects over time like 1 effect removed every x seconds for x seconds)

2. Mobility! Ever since "Rapid Maneuvers"s effect dropping on the use of any heal, healing in PVP has become much more hazardous. Now in addition to being the first target picked out of out of your group and having to basically tank multiple people trying to kill you, you also get left behind if you try to do your job while the group is moving, and with the new changes to siege we HAVE to move. Big direct heals should pop you out of rapids, but could we maybe have our heal over time skills or our ground effect healing skills?


Stamina Healers:

1. Lack of healing tools. As it is now "Vigor" and its morphs are the only stamina healing skills available to all classes. Stamina wardens have access to "Soothing Spores" and "Green Lotus", which combine with "Vigor" makes for a very bare-bones, but passable healer. I would LOVE to see more stamina morphs for heals, or even skills that can scale its cost and healing on whatever stat is the highest. I think that if the Sorcerer pet abilities scaled off of max stat, we would likely see the odd Stam Sorcerer healer! But a change I would really like to see that would help all potential Stamina healers in the future is at least one morph of "Mend Wounds" being either a full stamina morph or scaling its heal/cost off of the highest stat. The main reason I think "Mend Wounds" is a perfect candidate for boosting Stamina healers is that Im sure it will not lead to massive imbalances like unkillable Stamina gankers, and more troll tanks. You cannot target your self for heals, it locks out of your light and heavy attacks, and it can be a resource hog if your not careful.

2. Lack of relevant sets. Stamina healers is a new and niche kind of role, so its not surprising that our sets are somewhat limited. Currently our best/only group buff sets are "Powerful Assault", "Hircine's Veneer" (and "War Machine" for the PVE ers). We do have some other sets we can use that do not buff the group like "Draugr Hulk", "Bone Pirate", "Quick Serpent" and "Trappings of Invigoration" and a few more. While I don't expect sets tailor made for the small portion of stamina users that heal, I would love it if in the next DLC there was a craftable set for healers that could be used by both Stamina and Magicka healers. And if changing an unused existing set is more appealing, "Essence Thief" is rarely used because someone has to physically move to the orb it produces and I think enemies can also pick it up. With a small change (not letting enemies be able to get the effect, have the effect automatically apply to a friendly target, or have the orb apply its effect to an area around it) it could be a viable set for both PVP and PVE content.


Monster Sets:

Just one issue with alot of healer focused monster sets: most of them are borderline useless. Alot of times the proc chance is to low to be usefull. As it is, the only one I can truly count on is "Earthgore".

"Chokethorn" is a 15% chance to proc and its effect is kinda weak (19565 over 4 seconds on a single target)

"Nightflame" has a 5% chance to proc and its area of effect is tiny, stationary, and does very little healing for how rare the proc chance is (20898 over 6 seconds)

"Sentinel of Rkugamz" has a 10% chance to proc and its area of effect is tiny, stationary, and does very little healing (8392 over 8 seconds + 4192 stamina over 8 seconds). Also it seems to proc even less than 10% of the time.

"Troll King" used to be commonly used until the nerf to health regen. otherwise this was once a solid set.

"Earthgore" procs on any heal on a target under 50% health and does a whopping 30000 healing over 3 seconds! Even if it didn't remove harmful ground effects this set would still be the king of healing monster sets! Perhaps some of the lesser used healing sets could receive a buff. make them more reliable, make them more mobile, make us want to use them!

Xai_Zi

Purge is bugged again

-Assuming all conditions are equal in a group of more than 6 players, only the first 5 players to join the group, plus the leader (first 6 in a group essentially), will be purged.

-The other players will get a purge, if one of two conditions is met:
1. If any of the first six players don't have any negative effects on them.
2. If any of the first six players aren't within range of the player casting purge.

-If a player casting purge is not one of the first 6 players in a group, the caster will not be able to receive the effects of purge, unless one of the previously mentioned conditions is met.

Gargath

Now, ZOS, please tell us what the heck you did with this spell.
How it can have a "healer's mark" with such prepostrous magicka cost?

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Gargath wrote: »

Now, ZOS, please tell us what the heck you did with this spell.
How it can have a "healer's mark" with such prepostrous magicka cost?

It is aoe instant burst heal. You can hit 6 people with a 25k+ heal each, easy, you need that high of a cost to make sure it is not spamed.

Greevir

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Gargath wrote: »

Now, ZOS, please tell us what the heck you did with this spell.
How it can have a "healer's mark" with such prepostrous magicka cost?

It is aoe instant burst heal. You can hit 6 people with a 25k+ heal each, easy, you need that high of a cost to make sure it is not spamed.

Yeah, I actually find the cost cheap for how much it heals.

lukastef

As I see most people complain that helaers are not needed in a lot of content and that is definitely true. My main char is a healer and many times I couldnt find a group for vet dungeons because they run without healers because they can. I think even normal trials could be run without healers if dps is high enough which it certainly can be. That is one of the biggest problems in a game because it removes one whole role from the game just because dps worship of developers but I didnt come here just to complain, I came here because I have easy solution for all of this. Like some of you know in atherium archives there are 2 bosses that at some point do major damage to everyone around and healers need to spam healing springs so everyone can survive. The bosses are that giant storm atronach and giant stone spider. So if you implement this in a lot of other bosses in vet dungeons problem would be solved. At some point I propose that a few bosses in dungeons have a phase where they deal major unavoidable damage and only through spamming heals during that phase could the group survive. That would make healers much more important as you could not survive and finish the dungeon without them. The other problem is that healers rly only have one good set which was spc and now is olorime. That removes diversity in healers builds. They could give us a few other equally good sets so that everyone has smthing else in their combination of gear.

Anhedonie

1. Healing isn't interesting. Look at Burning Crusade era of Worlf of Warcraft. Really take a close look at how druid, paladin, shaman and priest's healing works. They are different in mechanics, they are engaging and feel rewarding.
2. Healing gear. You have literally 1 option.

FrancisCrawford

As already noted above: Gear is boring. 5-piece and monster sets alike are very limited.

Admittedly, healing proc sets are difficult to design, since randomness and healing don't fit together well. But overall healing sets have little merit beyond the Major Courage buff. Blech.

Aionna

1. The game is focused on damage and as a result, healers are not needed in dungeons. Too many unforgiving mechanics in dungeons, you can not heal a one-shot.
2. Limited options for gears and monster sets (only sets that boost damage are preferred).
3. Restoration staff spells need some updating for example force siphon and some morphs such as Blessing of Restoration , Illustrious Healing.

Gargath

Greevir wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Gargath wrote: »

Now, ZOS, please tell us what the heck you did with this spell.
How it can have a "healer's mark" with such prepostrous magicka cost?

It is aoe instant burst heal. You can hit 6 people with a 25k+ heal each, easy, you need that high of a cost to make sure it is not spamed.

Yeah, I actually find the cost cheap for how much it heals.

With all the respect, please don't be ridiculous, how it can be cheap?
And why it could not be spammable?

Did you compare it with Warden's Budding Seeds? 14k basic health in spammable instant bloom (way more when crit) plus the same HOT from synergy for just 1,9k magicka, while 1,1k magicka regen has a healer. Here, check these stats for comparison:



Healing Ritual cannot be useful when it's cost is 22% per single cast of the entire character's magicka pool and it's around the healer only. Budding Seeds can be used everywhere at long range and it's just 5% per single cast of entire magicka pool.

TheNightflame

healing ritual vs budding seeds needs to be looked into... kinda exactly like with incantation and trees....... the issue is too analgous, it should've been learned from already

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

@Gargath you can hit healing ritual twice in the time you can spam budding once, since you have to cast budding twice to get the heal. Meaning twice the healing from healing ritual and then you got the Templars passives that scale the healing up to 12% based on the health of your target.

I would say budding can't be used since you have to wait a whole global cool down to get the heal and 6 seconds is way too short to keep up 100%, if you are just going to spam it over and over, healing Springs is much better for this application, you can stack them, so there is no wait between heals, like the whole global cool down between budding seeds heals.

Also, my temp has 38k magic and the skill only costs 6k, so healing ritual is only 15% of my magic pool. Mean while, my breath costs 3.5k and only heals 1.2 people. 10% of my magic for 1.2 people healed or 15% of my magic for 6?

Lastly, you are wasting your magic using frost cloak on a healer. Your bars are already tight and the major resists are easy to come by for most classes.

Lark82

Bumping this up from the 5th page!

I really hope the new arena actually neeeds a healer in it to be successful.

SirMewser

Lark82 wrote: »

Bumping this up from the 5th page!

I really hope the new arena actually neeeds a healer in it to be successful.

The amount of times I did vetDSA with a tank and three DDs with one off healing...

anadandy

Resurrecting this off page 6, but something I saw in the general discussion made me think about the general perception of healers.

"Brainless healbots"

Pick a healing skill and you'll find a comment along the lines of "[X] spamming..". Or even better - being called a pocket healer. We're just doing our JOB.

Now, I take none of this personally - but I think the commonness of such remarks indicates the attitude healers face. The lack of meaningful content for healers exacerbates that.

Sru

To be a decent healer, you need to spec for it. This severely limits your DPS so it is hard to take a DPS's spot even for non-trials.

A DD can slot a few healing tools and perform adequate healing to keep a group up while still doing major damage. The extra buffs a dedicated healer gives the group in no way makes up for the low DPS.

Yes, a tank has no DPS but it is essential to the efficient running of 4 mans up to trials and cannot be effectively replaced.

The fact that every DLC dungeon can be run without a healer simply by using 1 tank and 3 good DPS's makes a mockery of a complete class.

I long ago gave up main'ing my healer and resorted to pet sorc - at least I can throw a few heals out once in a while to relive the good old days.

Very poor dungeon design, run-away DPS and no re-working of old content to make it relevant .... sad.

Lark82

Another post in the General Discussion forum..

'Who needs a healer when you have a Warden tank'

Sadly, this is a widespread, and growing problem.

LadyNalcarya

1) A lot of mechanics in the new veteran dungeons rely on oneshots, and as we all know, you can't outheal those. This is why we have "3dds+tank" meta and this is very annoying.To be honest, it is my main problem with healing, and the reason why I barely play as my "main" these days... Seems like I'm not the only one.
I'd prefer if I as a healer could save my unlucky or clueless teammates. I think it would be nice if the punishment for failed mechanic would be harsh, but not deadly, at least not for the first time. Maybe a huge temporary damage debuff along with a 16k hit or something so dds cant ignore it, or something like this. Platform mechanic in vmol is also a good example (where you get a debuff from blue platforms but it only kills you if you touch the platform twice)... Or even the sphere mechanic on the first boss in hof (where you have to purge the poison). I'd like to see more balanced damage output, now its either a oneshot or just a small dot that can be completely negated by popping a shield or vigor.

2) I would like to see more variety in healing sets, especially monster sets.

Weesacs

Greevir wrote: »

Honestly, the biggest thing that frustrates me as a healer, is the lack of content outside of trials where we are needed. In fact, in most cases, excluding a healer from the group makes a number of the content EASIER. That should not be the case. Running 3dps 1tank shouldn't make things easier cause you can simply burn through mechanics. I enjoy healing and support, and I enjoy dungeons. But I unfortunately are not needed nor even wanted most of the time in them. Give healers more of a role in the game other than just trials. I don't know how this can be addressed of course, with the amount of self healing and mitigation everyone has these days, but that's what this program is about, right?

This. My solution to this would be to introduce a new, increased level of dungeon difficulty for the existing 4 man content (heroic or nightmare level) which had continuous environmental oblivion damage throughout the dungeon so that healers were mandatory.

Tasear

Any pain points for pts?

usmcjdking

This game has serious overhealing issues which has created mob mechanics designed to outright murder players through overhealing which make the roles of Tank, DPS and Healer incredibly linear which leaves little room for role diversity.

Gprime31

Healing is way too strong as it is, push a button back to full health, what is the problem? You want defile gone so what... there will be only healer tanks no one can kill? Get serious.

aetherial_heavenn

anadandy wrote: »

Resurrecting this off page 6, but something I saw in the general discussion made me think about the general perception of healers.

"Brainless healbots"

Pick a healing skill and you'll find a comment along the lines of "[X] spamming..". Or even better - being called a pocket healer. We're just doing our JOB.

Now, I take none of this personally - but I think the commonness of such remarks indicates the attitude healers face. The lack of meaningful content for healers exacerbates that.

Yeah. As we get more redundant in most content specialist healers are condescended to by pvpers and pve.

But while eso has non targeted aoe heals as its main healing mode, and while the devs are determined that any dps build in any class can heal most content, that wont change.

Edited because last paras disappeared

Oumalakasha

Tasear wrote: »

Any pain points for pts?

Hey there. I haven't seen much talk about Mend Wounds, and with it being a new skill it seems like a good time for some attention directed to it. I'll just put this link here since it has some good discussion going and others are better at this game than I am.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/411614/discussion-about-mend-wounds-and-morphs#latest

AH93

Hello,

I have just started as a healer, current level 30 Templar, I've done a few dungeons now and overall find that they are very easy, perhaps too easy.
I find the benefits my heals/buffs provide are rather pointless in this environment, since everything dies so fast.
If I can suggest, to make these dungeons harder, make healing roles more important, I also notice many DDs queuing as tanks, so I would suggest focusing on a necessity for a proper trinity of roles.
Otherwise I enjoy healing, it's just a bit easy right now!
Thanks!

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

AH93 wrote: »

Hello,

I have just started as a healer, current level 30 Templar, I've done a few dungeons now and overall find that they are very easy, perhaps too easy.
I find the benefits my heals/buffs provide are rather pointless in this environment, since everything dies so fast.
If I can suggest, to make these dungeons harder, make healing roles more important, I also notice many DDs queuing as tanks, so I would suggest focusing on a necessity for a proper trinity of roles.
Otherwise I enjoy healing, it's just a bit easy right now!
Thanks!

Go do vet stuff and come back, cutie.

nesmewno

Recently discovered the sad fact that Jorvuld's Guidance does not increase the time of minor force from Twilight Remedy. Perhaps with Venus set and major mending, too, is broken.

Starlock

Healing is something I'm a newer to as a role, so there's less I have to comment on that isn't class specific. Things that have been pain points as a new/learning healer:

• Healing sets are not readily accessible. Pretty much all the decent healing sets drop from dungeons. For folks who don't care about grinds, that's fine, but it isn't fine for players like myself. I do dungeons somewhat regularly, but I can't hoard gear from them without non-existent infinite bank space. There is finally one overland set that is for healers (Vanus) but before that, there was basically nothing. I wish I could craft a set that specifically boosted healing.
• We need a cure for stands-in-stupid and runs-like-chicken. Okay, in fairness this is a bit of a snipe at damage dealers that insist upon standing in red or run around all over the place when they don't really need to. But these kinds of behaviors do make the healer's job more difficult, especially on console where targeting our abilities is a bit more of a challenge. Some of these targeting issues are class-specific, so I won't get into the nuances here, but it's something to keep in mind.

Tasear

Oumalakasha wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Any pain points for pts?

Hey there. I haven't seen much talk about Mend Wounds, and with it being a new skill it seems like a good time for some attention directed to it. I'll just put this link here since it has some good discussion going and others are better at this game than I am.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/411614/discussion-about-mend-wounds-and-morphs#latest

It's been updated in the latest pts.