Consignment Traders

Avalon

Not everyone can join the main trade guilds, and many choose to go to chat for selling their goods. I was just curious about whether we could use a version of consignment somehow. Allow people that are not part of a guild to put their goods onto either existent traders, or a new trader, but at a much steeper payout. If on an existing guild trader, the extra price would be paid directly into that guild's bank, since it is a form of renting 'space'; if on a new NPC Consignment Trader, the amount would flutter off into the ether as another form of gold sink in the game, but would be steeper than the guild traders would require. Just wondering if something like this could be used to make the trader system more accessible to all players.

Taleof2Cities

Not the best idea, IMO, since that would put casual trading guilds (not in the main trading cities) out of business.

Avalon

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Not the best idea, IMO, since that would put casual trading guilds (not in the main trading cities) out of business.

As a 3 year member of various 'casual trading guilds', I can tell you (at least on console), based on the sales history for each (which I keep up with to know what to sell, how much, and who is buying), they are 95% selling to themselves, not other players. There is an exceptionally low number of people who go out to the single traders to do business, most only check the hubs. So, I don't see where this would really hurt them, and might even help them since they could actually sell items and get money to further donate to their guilds and maybe outbid someone someday. But, I don't know how it would play out, honestly... just trying to find ways that work WITH the existing system, to allow access to all players, not just the primary guilds (for the most part), or ~180 guilds (however many total traders are in the game).

idk

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Not the best idea, IMO, since that would put casual trading guilds (not in the main trading cities) out of business.

And many guild have space so there is room at the inn for those interested. Heck, I am in a non trade guild that often has a trader at the minimum price and I sell plenty through that guild.

There are those that have fun flipping items and they go out to the off locations to find deals then sell them in the main hub making most locations worthy.

I do not think Zos is open to the idea of change, even one like this. They wanted something different, something more social with their trading system and based it on the guild. It works and Zos has shown no sign they are interested in changing the core design.

Taleof2Cities

Avalon wrote: »

I can tell you (at least on console), based on the sales history for each (which I keep up with to know what to sell, how much, and who is buying), they are 95% selling to themselves, not other players.

Please share the sales data you have that shows 95% of your guild’s trader activity is from players within the guild.

I’m sure the rest of the forums community and ZOS would be interested in the hard numbers you have to support your point of view.

After that, there’s the other issue of the hub city guilds allowing casuals the privilege of selling at their trader ... even at a premium.

If guildies in the major trading guilds truly enjoy selling (or otherwise truly enjoy helping that major trading guild succeed) ... why should non-guildies enjoy the same privilege but be absolved of any effort to succeed??

Avalon

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

show previous quotes

Avalon wrote: »

I can tell you (at least on console), based on the sales history for each (which I keep up with to know what to sell, how much, and who is buying), they are 95% selling to themselves, not other players.

Please share the sales data you have that shows 95% of your guild’s trader activity is from players within the guild.

I’m sure the rest of the forums community and ZOS would be interested in the hard numbers you have to support your point of view.

After that, there’s the other issue of the hub city guilds allowing casuals the privilege of selling at their trader ... even at a premium.

If guildies in the major trading guilds truly enjoy selling (or otherwise truly enjoy helping that major trading guild succeed) ... why should non-guildies enjoy the same privilege but be absolved of any effort to succeed??

First, you are asking for screenshots retroactively over a span of 3+ years, unless you have mental damages, you understand that even if the information is 100% accurate, it still cannot be provided, because I don't have time travel. And yes, I have other words I would like to add to that, but, forum rules and all. Let's just keep it at that.

Second, all you are doing is finding faults, and not offering any ways to make it work. Want to be a meaningful part, please work WITH, not just find reasons it won't work. You say this won't work, ok, fine... how to make it work? What other ideas are there to make traders accessible to all? That is the goal of all of these exercises: find how to make the system work for everyone. The simple fact that the subject continues to come up is proof enough that it does not work for everyone. Yes, some few want the AH system, but if we find a way to make it work for everyone else, then all of these threads would become a thing of the past.

So, instead of pointing out all of the ways things would not work, offer ideas that could MAKE things work. How can we make the system accessible to everyone: guilded, unguilded, etc?

idk

I do not think it is his responsibility to find a means to make your idea work. You made a very specific statement, not even a generalization, and he asked you for the information you had to back that up.

Regardless, any idea suggesting change makes one assumption and that is Zos being willing to make such a change. While Zos, like any business, does care what their clients think, it does not mean everything is open to change.

Zos publicly stated before the game launched over 4 years ago they wanted a different trading system, a social trading system centered around guilds. So even if your numbers were correct it would not suggest something needed to be changed.

In the end, Zos cannot do everything for everyone. If someone does not want to join a guild that does not mean Zos need to make changes to accommodate them.

This is not a knock against your opinion or desire for something different. It is merely stating that just because some players want something changed does not mean it will or even should be changed.

IsharaMeradin

A guild can have 500 members max. Each member can sell 30 items max. That leaves a guild trader with 15000 slots for items to sell. Fairly certain that even with various restrictions and rules in place, not every guild with a trader is using all of those slots.

A solution:
Add one NPC in each zone that players can interact with. The game can check the guilds that the player is in and determine if they have access to a guild trader. If they do, the NPC can remind them that they can access their guild trader(s) directly or via a city banker. Otherwise, the NPC will allow the player to post up to 10 items for sale for a holding fee plus posting fee.

Here is the catch, those items will be added to existing guild traders that have empty membership slots on a first come first serve basis. (i.e. if a guild has only 480 members, 20 membership slots will be utilized by non-members)

Non-trader guild members can post their items for sale, the items will go into a queue until they are able to be placed into a trader guild's empty membership slot. 30 day timer counts down from the moment of posting. This means that an item could be in a trader for up to 30 days, sitting in queue for up to 30 days or some combination of the two.

The guild whose trader gets used, will receive a cut of the sale. Said cut should be larger than that taken from guild members.

Obviously, there will be greater benefit in joining a trading guild. In a trading guild the player would have lower fees and a guaranteed 30 day sale window. Without a trading guild, the player will have greater fees and the potential depending upon slot availability to not even get a sale window.

Elsterchen

Avalon wrote: »

Not everyone can join the main trade guilds, and many choose to go to chat for selling their goods. I was just curious about whether we could use a version of consignment somehow. Allow people that are not part of a guild to put their goods onto either existent traders, or a new trader, but at a much steeper payout. If on an existing guild trader, the extra price would be paid directly into that guild's bank, since it is a form of renting 'space'; if on a new NPC Consignment Trader, the amount would flutter off into the ether as another form of gold sink in the game, but would be steeper than the guild traders would require. Just wondering if something like this could be used to make the trader system more accessible to all players.

Actually you don't need access to "all" players... if done right a guild store of a non-trading guild can be something really great and rewarding. Especially if one doesn't always have appealing wares, but only from time to time (like motifs during anniversary event), any guild store helps. Adding to it, since I know my only customers are going to be guildies I usually discount anything I put in guild stores of my non-trading guilds. For me its good as I can relieve my bagpack of goods piling up and guildies usually find fair prices in our shop. Win-Win.

On a related note: I enjoy shopping from time to time and searching for good prices is half the fun imo, so while I agree its timeconsuming I don't feel the current model needs to be changed.

jaschacasadiob16_ESO

What's keeping you from being part of a main trade guild anyway? Most don't even ask you to be CP, as long as you pay 5K (FIVE THOUSAND) a week. Of course, then if you are on the console, you cannot avoid the often intelligent discussions between the guild members...

idk

jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »

What's keeping you from being part of a main trade guild anyway? Most don't even ask you to be CP, as long as you pay 5K (FIVE THOUSAND) a week. Of course, then if you are on the console, you cannot avoid the often intelligent discussions between the guild members...

I just have to sell 5k.

Elsterchen

IsharaMeradin wrote: »

A guild can have 500 members max. Each member can sell 30 items max. That leaves a guild trader with 15000 slots for items to sell. Fairly certain that even with various restrictions and rules in place, not every guild with a trader is using all of those slots.

A solution:
Add one NPC in each zone that players can interact with. The game can check the guilds that the player is in and determine if they have access to a guild trader. If they do, the NPC can remind them that they can access their guild trader(s) directly or via a city banker. Otherwise, the NPC will allow the player to post up to 10 items for sale for a holding fee plus posting fee.

Here is the catch, those items will be added to existing guild traders that have empty membership slots on a first come first serve basis. (i.e. if a guild has only 480 members, 20 membership slots will be utilized by non-members)

Non-trader guild members can post their items for sale, the items will go into a queue until they are able to be placed into a trader guild's empty membership slot. 30 day timer counts down from the moment of posting. This means that an item could be in a trader for up to 30 days, sitting in queue for up to 30 days or some combination of the two.

The guild whose trader gets used, will receive a cut of the sale. Said cut should be larger than that taken from guild members.

Obviously, there will be greater benefit in joining a trading guild. In a trading guild the player would have lower fees and a guaranteed 30 day sale window. Without a trading guild, the player will have greater fees and the potential depending upon slot availability to not even get a sale window.

No, due to the bet placed on traders every week there are always some "spare/emergency" guilds that hold a spot. (These can be identified easily by their non-existing stock) Your suggestion would encourage the (understandable) but in effect doubtfull behaviour of placing emergency bets and even the cheaper single-trader-spots far off the main roads might get too expensive for new, or casual trading guilds. Especially when the big ones decide its good to make more money with empty banking slots.

I hope its clear that I don't think that your idea isn't good, its just going to be misused easily, I fear.

Avalon

Due to the weekly bidding thing, it would also have to put a time limit on the items one places on the vendors, or, a stipulation that if the vendor changes hands, your items are returned to you. As for the joining trade guilds, and them having slots, etc... on PC it may work differently, not sure... on console, finding a guild can be a pain. How to do it? There is no "Find a Guild" part of the UI, no add-ons, text chat is rarely used for anything except spamming items for sale, voice chat is tricky as well (and often does not work properly). The best I have seen is to go to Facebook and try to find guilds... I've even seen some startup guilds just spam invites to their guild to everyone in the area when in town.

So, yeah, I think, especially for console, having some way to get everyone access to use the trader system would help.

IsharaMeradin

Elsterchen wrote: »

No, due to the bet placed on traders every week there are always some "spare/emergency" guilds that hold a spot. (These can be identified easily by their non-existing stock) Your suggestion would encourage the (understandable) but in effect doubtfull behaviour of placing emergency bets and even the cheaper single-trader-spots far off the main roads might get too expensive for new, or casual trading guilds. Especially when the big ones decide its good to make more money with empty banking slots.

I hope its clear that I don't think that your idea isn't good, its just going to be misused easily, I fear.

The current system is misused easily already. Kinda hard to devise something that is helpful to all when the base has its own issues.

idk

Avalon wrote: »

Due to the weekly bidding thing, it would also have to put a time limit on the items one places on the vendors, or, a stipulation that if the vendor changes hands, your items are returned to you. As for the joining trade guilds, and them having slots, etc... on PC it may work differently, not sure... on console, finding a guild can be a pain. How to do it? There is no "Find a Guild" part of the UI, no add-ons, text chat is rarely used for anything except spamming items for sale, voice chat is tricky as well (and often does not work properly). The best I have seen is to go to Facebook and try to find guilds... I've even seen some startup guilds just spam invites to their guild to everyone in the area when in town.

So, yeah, I think, especially for console, having some way to get everyone access to use the trader system would help.

On PC finding a guild is the same. I have had no issues when I played originally and when I returned after about 6 months away.

Regardless, Zos specifically wanted trading to be more social and part of guilds. Since that is working as they intended, as it seems based on their continuing to expand that, it does not look like they will be drifting away from the guild trader.

zyk

Avalon wrote: »

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Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Not the best idea, IMO, since that would put casual trading guilds (not in the main trading cities) out of business.

As a 3 year member of various 'casual trading guilds', I can tell you (at least on console), based on the sales history for each (which I keep up with to know what to sell, how much, and who is buying), they are 95% selling to themselves, not other players. There is an exceptionally low number of people who go out to the single traders to do business, most only check the hubs. So, I don't see where this would really hurt them, and might even help them since they could actually sell items and get money to further donate to their guilds and maybe outbid someone someday. But, I don't know how it would play out, honestly... just trying to find ways that work WITH the existing system, to allow access to all players, not just the primary guilds (for the most part), or ~180 guilds (however many total traders are in the game).

I agree with others that this doesn't sound accurate. I've been an active trader for years. Sometimes a trading guild I'm in will lose their main location and will settle for and outlying location and we can still sell decently. Beyond that, one of my guilds is currently in a location with several trading guilds I'd call casual that I know have low or no requirements, and I've sold over 5M there over the past 10 days.

You don't need to be in one of the main trading hubs to be successful. There are many 2nd tier locations that do very well.

Even the single traders outside of towns can sell decently if they have good prices on compelling items. Players will find those deals via tools like TTC.

I don't like your idea because it would contribute to clutter. An issue an active trader can have is too many items available, which makes it more difficult for customers to find what they're looking for. Another issue is market cannibalization within a guild and/or hub and we don't need non-members contributing to that.

Avalon

I'm really trying to figure out how you can sell 5M in 10 days... I have been in 4 Trading Guilds (different ones, some with traders, some not) over the last 3 years. My friends, the same. I tend to keep my list 30/30 in them as well, with prices that are lower than those I see when I check other vendors. And, until a couple of weeks ago, the best I ever did was 20-30K here and there when I have a motif to sell, or a purple furnishing plan.

A couple of weeks ago, I joined a much better trading guild, one that has had the same vendor in Stormhaven for the last 3 years. I am selling the same stuff, at higher prices than I usually sell at, and have been making 50-60K per week. Even if I was in 5 guilds, all with great locations, I'd still only make 250-300K a week. So... not sure how you can make that much lol. I mean, literally, I can alter my prices by 100 gold, and stuff won't sell at all. I have tested it. For my other guilds, I look to see who is buying, and it is 99% of the time, the people in that guild. There are a few people buying elsewise, but, so few, so rarely.

I really wonder if the add-ons on PC make THAT big a difference? I know you guys have a website or two as well, and that helps locate which trader has the item you need, even if it is out in the boonies. The best thing we have is an app that gives general pricing information =/

And, while you do not think my comment is accurate, and many agree with you, I know... You need to realize that there are many that find my comments entirely TOO accurate. So, for some reason, and would love to nail down that reason, we have two camps: one that sees nothing wrong, and honestly doesn't get why everyone else has problems with the system or with making money; and another that does not get how anyone finds it perfectly fine, and cannot see how anyone makes any money of real amounts, unless they are in great guilds with prime traders.

The biggest problem, is that when the two sides cannot at least try to see that the other side is right, just as THEY are right, which then leads to trying to rectify the situation... it ends up being a fight, where people just start namecalling, or insulting the others... For instance, I know very well how to price things, how to make tons of money in various trading styles in the games... Yet, I can price things exactly as suggested, or higher, lower, on different guild traders, etc... stuff still does not sell well unless on the main guild (has the good trader). So, in reply, people have said that I just must not know what I am doing, either I am charging too much, or trying to sell unwanted things.

To me, that is an insult. I'm selling stuff that goes within a day or two on the good trader, and selling it for barely enough to make a profit at all. People could save a TON of money by going out to those traders. They don't. So, instead of realizing that people ARE trying to work with the system, and still failing, instead of recognizing that their own experiences are not the only ones, and the others are very valid... we end up with fights, where no one gets anywhere. The system works for you, great. Probably on PC. I've found that the people that want nothing to change, are almost all on PC. I haven't found but a handful of console players that agree - that is from the poll, but also from the 3+years of grouping with randoms on console... Pretty much no one on console thinks the system is fine, in fact, I haven't met many that don't start cussing when talking about it.

Taleof2Cities

Avalon wrote: »

I'm really trying to figure out how you can sell 5M in 10 days...

When you were a member of that guild that had players selling 5M ... did you ask those players directly how they do it?

They can probably give you some pointers without giving away all their trade secrets.

Avalon

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

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Avalon wrote: »

I'm really trying to figure out how you can sell 5M in 10 days...

When you were a member of that guild that had players selling 5M ... did you ask those players directly how they do it?

They can probably give you some pointers without giving away all their trade secrets.

I did not say I was in a guild that could do that... I was pointing out that HE was able to do that, and based on my experiences (and the people I have spoken with on Xbox) no idea how that is even possible. The best selling things I can think of that one can do semi-predictably, is writ-selling. And, just guessing on my own experiences, the average is somewhere around 5 or so per writ, and maybe 1 per day if lucky. If you have a full list of characters (15 I think?) then that would be 75K a day, a week would make it 525K. Add in a few motifs, some furnishing plans, etc, and it might bring the total over a million, MAYBE.

But, even then, that would take more than one good trading guild (with traders in good spots), and filling up 60/60 constantly, and having 15 characters with max crafting skills, etc. Not even a remote possibility for a casual lol. So, how does a casual (2 hours a day or so) make more than 50-60K per week?

zyk

Avalon wrote: »

I'm really trying to figure out how you can sell 5M in 10 days... I have been in 4 Trading Guilds (different ones, some with traders, some not) over the last 3 years. My friends, the same. I tend to keep my list 30/30 in them as well, with prices that are lower than those I see when I check other vendors. And, until a couple of weeks ago, the best I ever did was 20-30K here and there when I have a motif to sell, or a purple furnishing plan.

Steady on the grind...



The 10M guild isn't in a top trading hub. There are guilds there with no or little requirements. With most of the same things for sale, it compares decently to the 18M guild which is in Rawl, the top trading hub on PC/NA. The 6M guild was in a bad location for 6/10 days but still saw activity because it had items players were looking for.

That's not all profit, of course... I spend it all on furniture recipes even though I'm not into decorating. I have no idea why...
/facepalm
/headache
/playdead

Avalon

zyk wrote: »

show previous quotes

Avalon wrote: »

I'm really trying to figure out how you can sell 5M in 10 days... I have been in 4 Trading Guilds (different ones, some with traders, some not) over the last 3 years. My friends, the same. I tend to keep my list 30/30 in them as well, with prices that are lower than those I see when I check other vendors. And, until a couple of weeks ago, the best I ever did was 20-30K here and there when I have a motif to sell, or a purple furnishing plan.

Steady on the grind...



The 10M guild isn't in a top trading hub. There are guilds there with no or little requirements. With most of the same things for sale, it compares decently to the 18M guild which is in Rawl, the top trading hub on PC/NA. The 6M guild was in a bad location for 6/10 days but still saw activity because it had items players were looking for.

That's not all profit, of course... I spend it all on furniture recipes even though I'm not into decorating. I have no idea why...
/facepalm
/headache
/playdead

I agree with the buying stuff I don't actually need thing lol...

On the post, itself, I wonder how possible that would be on console, without add-ons or websites to help out. If you have nothing to point you to those vendors outside of the hubs, or even locations of those vendors, then, relatively no one visits. This is getting more and more likely as people have stopped doing the main questlines, and started just grinding dolmens or skyreach, and forget those traders even exist. Yes, there are a few that still know, still visit, but I really wonder how many players on console even bother, if they even remember or know they exist? Seriously, all of these stories I hear about how it is possible, and it works, are all from PC, none from console that I have seen.

I really think the add-ons and websites that can import data directly from those add-ons, etc are the reason. Why else is there such a discrepancy of opinions and experiences?

Elsterchen

IsharaMeradin wrote: »

show previous quotes

Elsterchen wrote: »

No, due to the bet placed on traders every week there are always some "spare/emergency" guilds that hold a spot. (These can be identified easily by their non-existing stock) Your suggestion would encourage the (understandable) but in effect doubtfull behaviour of placing emergency bets and even the cheaper single-trader-spots far off the main roads might get too expensive for new, or casual trading guilds. Especially when the big ones decide its good to make more money with empty banking slots.

I hope its clear that I don't think that your idea isn't good, its just going to be misused easily, I fear.

The current system is misused easily already. Kinda hard to devise something that is helpful to all when the base has its own issues.

Currently a big trading guild looses money when placing an emergency bet and getting through with their initial bet. In your proposal, this loss would be a gain instead (extra money WITHOUT selling something) - the cost for the emergency spot. Emergency bets are placed anyways, the loss of any access to the trade market is bigger then the cost for the emergency bet. In your proposal the cost off the emergency bet is reduced, as empty slots would create money.

In short: There is a difference in missuse and supporting missuse, and thats all i wanted to point out.

zyk

Avalon wrote: »

I agree with the buying stuff I don't actually need thing lol...

On the post, itself, I wonder how possible that would be on console, without add-ons or websites to help out. If you have nothing to point you to those vendors outside of the hubs, or even locations of those vendors, then, relatively no one visits. This is getting more and more likely as people have stopped doing the main questlines, and started just grinding dolmens or skyreach, and forget those traders even exist. Yes, there are a few that still know, still visit, but I really wonder how many players on console even bother, if they even remember or know they exist? Seriously, all of these stories I hear about how it is possible, and it works, are all from PC, none from console that I have seen.

I really think the add-ons and websites that can import data directly from those add-ons, etc are the reason. Why else is there such a discrepancy of opinions and experiences?

I think it's relative. Don't focus on the numbers I posted, but rather the fact that my sales in a guild with low requirements in what I would call a 3rd tier hub (meaning there are at least half a dozen locations that are better) can be competitive with a top guild in the best location on PC/NA.

That 10 day period happened to be within the first 11 days or so of Summerset and are representative of peak trading activity; though the numbers are inflated, the point stands.

ESO trading is competitive. It's a game unto itself. The top guilds are successful because they have competitive traders and admins who work extremely hard. The guilds in the best spots have to work at it. Regardless of how they do it on consoles, I'm sure that remains true.

I don't play on consoles, but I would guess that even without the same tools, there are players who put a lot of time into the trading meta and use a combination of traits like wit, guile, risk taking and hard work to be successful. For me, it's 99.9% hard work.

For those who don't want to trade at that level, I suggest finding a guild in a non-prime trading area that's still busy and price low. If you do this consistently, dedicated traders and crafters will find and remember your guild.