ZOS integrated spyware RedShell by mistake, deleted from live, still in PTS folder

Facefister

People in this thread literally defending a spyware. This is a next-level shilling.

StackonClown

Facefister wrote: »

People in this thread literally defending a spyware. This is a next-level shilling.

bit disappointed that none of the various 'player ambassadors' haven't come in to speak up for players here ?? They seem to be vocal on many other random topics or if they have a new guide or something - id say this should be something they would care about also.

Raideen

Facefister wrote: »

People in this thread literally defending a spyware. This is a next-level shilling.

My favorite observation in all of this is those who claim they are not shilling yet their actions and words are textbook to the letter shilling. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill

Whether or not they ARE shills will forever be in question, their actions however are very much in fact shilling.

President_PUG

The Best PART? If You play through STEAM all that info was already being collected anyway. Yah'll trying close the door after The Cat got out. Knowing business people, making a nickel is a lot money when there are 15 million people involved. Someone up top said instead paying STEAM for that info We need a program of Our Own. So Hell North Korea and Other Countries probably got more info on you Then Your Bank does. That nots being Paranoid, that's just the facts.It's called The "INTERNET" because EVERYTHING is Interconnected.

StackonClown

President_PUG wrote: »

The Best PART? If You play through STEAM all that info was already being collected anyway. Yah'll trying close the door after The Cat got out. Knowing business people, making a nickel is a lot money when there are 15 million people involved. Someone up top said instead paying STEAM for that info We need a program of Our Own. So Hell North Korea and Other Countries probably got more info on you Then Your Bank does. That nots being Paranoid, that's just the facts.It's called The "INTERNET" because EVERYTHING is Interconnected.

"All that info was already being collected" whatever that really means, doesnt mean we have no case to raise genuine concerns. Also, the EU doesnt seem to be a fan of 'all the info being collected".

Reverb

ZOS_MattFiror wrote: »

Everyone,

My apologies for the confusion over the integration of Red Shell into ESO. Here’s what happened: we have been experimenting with a better way to link which advertisements and web content new players see to the eventual account that is created in the game. The ONLY purpose this would be used for is to determine from which origin points our new players come from, so we can better plan where to place advertisements and other web content. Existing accounts will never encounter this, as they are already created.

Several factors came together in Update 18 and Red Shell was erroneously added to the live build when we were still testing and evaluating it. It has never been active in ESO, even though the base tech is in the client – i.e. it was never enabled. So, we will remove it from Update 18, which will take place in the PC/Mac incremental build scheduled for this coming Monday (it was never considered for Console, so won’t be in Tuesday’s U18 launch). We never should have done this without giving everyone a heads up it was coming, and we will learn from this mistake.

That being said, we are still investigating how to use this technology in the future to grow and sustain ESO more effectively. When/if we do so, we will give everyone a heads up with clear instructions as to what it is doing, how it is doing it, and how to opt-out should you so desire.

Check out the patch notes on Monday for the notice that Red Shell has been removed from U18, and we will keep everyone posted – and again, my apologies.

Matt

@ZOS_MattFiror if this was an accident, and has never been enabled, why does the ESO client become nonfunctional if the RedShell dll is removed or modified? Why does Zeni require this spyware to be present and communicating for the game to even work. Give us a reason, any reason at all, to believe in your integrity, or that of Zenimax. Please.

Slick_007

karthrag_inak wrote: »

Ever wonder how google and facebook can not only operate, but seemingly make billions of dollars, when they don't seem to sell anything?

google actually do sell quite a few things.

EasyTiger

Facefister wrote: »

People in this thread literally defending a spyware. This is a next-level shilling.

It’s so obvious on here and on reddit, so shady

jeevin

Reverb wrote: »

ZOS_MattFiror wrote: »

Everyone,

My apologies for the confusion over the integration of Red Shell into ESO. Here’s what happened: we have been experimenting with a better way to link which advertisements and web content new players see to the eventual account that is created in the game. The ONLY purpose this would be used for is to determine from which origin points our new players come from, so we can better plan where to place advertisements and other web content. Existing accounts will never encounter this, as they are already created.

Several factors came together in Update 18 and Red Shell was erroneously added to the live build when we were still testing and evaluating it. It has never been active in ESO, even though the base tech is in the client – i.e. it was never enabled. So, we will remove it from Update 18, which will take place in the PC/Mac incremental build scheduled for this coming Monday (it was never considered for Console, so won’t be in Tuesday’s U18 launch). We never should have done this without giving everyone a heads up it was coming, and we will learn from this mistake.

That being said, we are still investigating how to use this technology in the future to grow and sustain ESO more effectively. When/if we do so, we will give everyone a heads up with clear instructions as to what it is doing, how it is doing it, and how to opt-out should you so desire.

Check out the patch notes on Monday for the notice that Red Shell has been removed from U18, and we will keep everyone posted – and again, my apologies.

Matt

@ZOS_MattFiror if this was an accident, and has never been enabled, why does the ESO client become nonfunctional if the RedShell dll is removed or modified? Why does Zeni require this spyware to be present and communicating for the game to even work. Give us a reason, any reason at all, to believe in your integrity, or that of Zenimax. Please.

The only accident was the being caught out part. Matt has made next to no contribution here on the forums since the games release so you know it must be a big whoops if he feels obliged to comment here. It's a pretty big oversight from this company. It's sad that this is even a thing these days.

EasyTiger

President_PUG wrote: »

The Best PART? If You play through STEAM all that info was already being collected anyway. Yah'll trying close the door after The Cat got out. Knowing business people, making a nickel is a lot money when there are 15 million people involved. Someone up top said instead paying STEAM for that info We need a program of Our Own. So Hell North Korea and Other Countries probably got more info on you Then Your Bank does. That nots being Paranoid, that's just the facts.It's called The "INTERNET" because EVERYTHING is Interconnected.

Just more FUD to muddy the waters

jaschacasadiob16_ESO

ZOS_MattFiror wrote: »

The ONLY purpose this would be used for is to determine from which origin points our new players come from, so we can better plan where to place advertisements and other web content. Existing accounts will never encounter this, as they are already created.

You don't really need this service is this is the ONLY purpose. You already have this kind of information.

ZOS_MattFiror wrote: »

We never should have done this without giving everyone a heads up it was coming, and we will learn from this mistake.

Happy GDPR, ZOS.

Facefister

"Mistake"

Thing is, this "mistake" could have legal actions. Maybe some are being taken right now, or not.

randomkeyhits

Facefister wrote: »

"Mistake"

Thing is, this "mistake" could have legal actions. Maybe some are being taken right now, or not.

Maybe it was, seen branches get rolled back into trunk accidentally before. It happens.

Doesn't matter now though. Those that will accept have done, those that don't won't. Regardless the degree of trust in ZoS drops down another notch simply because it could have been nefarious.

What a lot of companies don't realise is that though the company is just that, a company, we look for a human response to situations and judge those responses by human criteria, not corporate.

In this case once the issue is raised the corporate response is what do we say to mitigate any potential problems and can involve laywers but most importantly is perceived to be a slow response. Not good PR. If there was an immediate "wait! what? we'll check into this" followed by "we are tracking this back to source" a bit later followed by the "oops" then more people will accept it as its a more human response, better PR.

Of course the best PR is not to have these kind of things happen in the first place but....

Syncronaut

Here is my predicton on what they will do:

*this spyware will be back, but it will only install for players that accepted it
*store exclusive items

---

)
----) players who accepted spyware will be able to buy it
----) player who decilined a spyware will not be able to buy it and they wont see it on store either
*this will cause a physiological reaction by wanting something and those people will accept the spyware
*people will have no legit reason to complain, as the mod can simply said they need to accept the new spyware to be able to buy it

At least this is what i would do to work araund this law.

Aluneth

Companies have a reputation, and Zenimax (Bethesda) is not the size of Blizzard, Valve, Ubisoft nor EA. There is a limit to what they can get away with, especially when it comes to a game like ESO.

Imagine what will happen if/when they release a Fallout Online. People will take a look at their other online game, and if the reputation is tarnished, they'll most likely consider if it's worth investing their time (and money) into the new MMO.

Iselin

Syncronaut wrote: »

Here is my predicton on what they will do:

*this spyware will be back, but it will only install for players that accepted it
*store exclusive items

---

)
----) players who accepted spyware will be able to buy it
----) player who decilined a spyware will not be able to buy it and they wont see it on store either
*this will cause a physiological reaction by wanting something and those people will accept the spyware
*people will have no legit reason to complain, as the mod can simply said they need to accept the new spyware to be able to buy it

At least this is what i would do to work araund this law.

You really see being able to buy something exclusive as a reward?

Sounds like ZOS marketing is working as intended on you

maboleth

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

ZOS_MattFiror wrote: »

Everyone,

My apologies for the confusion over the integration of Red Shell into ESO. Here’s what happened: we have been experimenting with a better way to link which advertisements and web content new players see to the eventual account that is created in the game. The ONLY purpose this would be used for is to determine from which origin points our new players come from, so we can better plan where to place advertisements and other web content. Existing accounts will never encounter this, as they are already created.

Several factors came together in Update 18 and Red Shell was erroneously added to the live build when we were still testing and evaluating it. It has never been active in ESO, even though the base tech is in the client – i.e. it was never enabled. So, we will remove it from Update 18, which will take place in the PC/Mac incremental build scheduled for this coming Monday (it was never considered for Console, so won’t be in Tuesday’s U18 launch). We never should have done this without giving everyone a heads up it was coming, and we will learn from this mistake.

That being said, we are still investigating how to use this technology in the future to grow and sustain ESO more effectively. When/if we do so, we will give everyone a heads up with clear instructions as to what it is doing, how it is doing it, and how to opt-out should you so desire.

Check out the patch notes on Monday for the notice that Red Shell has been removed from U18, and we will keep everyone posted – and again, my apologies.

Matt

I ain't buying it.

So, whatever ZOS says, people are going to moan? I'm actually shocked how many people have so much free time/no life/no family/no hobbies, rather than if ZOS uses whatever software to position their ads. To write an essays about this on 20+ pages is an anomaly.

Reverb

randomkeyhits wrote: »

Facefister wrote: »

"Mistake"

Thing is, this "mistake" could have legal actions. Maybe some are being taken right now, or not.

Maybe it was, seen branches get rolled back into trunk accidentally before. It happens.

Doesn't matter now though. Those that will accept have done, those that don't won't. Regardless the degree of trust in ZoS drops down another notch simply because it could have been nefarious.

What a lot of companies don't realise is that though the company is just that, a company, we look for a human response to situations and judge those responses by human criteria, not corporate.

In this case once the issue is raised the corporate response is what do we say to mitigate any potential problems and can involve laywers but most importantly is perceived to be a slow response. Not good PR. If there was an immediate "wait! what? we'll check into this" followed by "we are tracking this back to source" a bit later followed by the "oops" then more people will accept it as its a more human response, better PR.

Of course the best PR is not to have these kind of things happen in the first place but....

Well said. And Zeni's response was

"crap, some people found it and are making a big deal about it"
"Give it a few days and see if it dies down"
"Nope, now even more people are worked up over it"
"Have someone give vague apologies and say it was an accident. Agree to remove it for a time, but be sure that the statement hints that we'll put it back in the future. Don't say anything at all about how we'll handle the data we've already mined from them."

I'll call back to a post I made back in 2015:

The game is still enjoyable, and I (and I believe many others) hope for its continued improvement and success, but will never extend confidence and trust to Zenimax. Their every public statement will be given the side-eye, remembering how comfortable they are spouting abject falsehoods, writ large in bold type

On that occasion (as well as others) it was Matt who was marched out to give an official statement backtracking things they had previously said and done. That's much longer than I'm comfortable with, that I've been in bed with a company who demonstrates ethical deficiencies, just because I like the product.

Lonestryder

Clearly other people are making money off my data while I pay a subscription to them for the privilege of providing it. Seems like I should be the one monetizing and charging for access to my pockets (or the lint in them, so you know what kind of laundry detergent I’m using).

Either way, I don’t believe this was a mistake. This relationship is over.

Aluneth

Lonestryder wrote: »

Clearly other people are making money off my data while I pay a subscription to them for the privilege of providing it. Seems like I should be the one monetizing and charging for access to my pockets (or the lint in them, so you know what kind of laundry detergent I’m using).

Either way, I don’t believe this was a mistake. This relationship is over.

Anyone who believes that it was a mistake, should stay away from Nigerian Princes.

jircris11

Funny thing is people are acting as if zos is the only company that does this. Blizzard launcher had one as well. And most free games and websites as well. Hell in the UK this is used by the ISP for marketing. It's honestly not a big deal and people need to understand that it won't kill you. After all zos is a company and its primary goal is to make money. It's the same reason you get up to go to work.

Cpt_Teemo

jircris11 wrote: »

Funny thing is people are acting as if zos is the only company that does this. Blizzard launcher had one as well. And most free games and websites as well. Hell in the UK this is used by the ISP for marketing. It's honestly not a big deal and people need to understand that it won't kill you. After all zos is a company and its primary goal is to make money. It's the same reason you get up to go to work.

Doesn't matter no where in the privacy policy stating they could silently install spyware without letting us know especially one day before a major law being activated in EU.

Numerikuu

Reverb wrote: »

@ZOS_MattFiror if this was an accident, and has never been enabled, why does the ESO client become nonfunctional if the RedShell dll is removed or modified? Why does Zeni require this spyware to be present and communicating for the game to even work. Give us a reason, any reason at all, to believe in your integrity, or that of Zenimax. Please.

I wait with bated breath for the next ZOS canned response that's full of more holes than a block of swiss cheese

Aluneth

jircris11 wrote: »

Funny thing is people are acting as if zos is the only company that does this. Blizzard launcher had one as well. And most free games and websites as well. Hell in the UK this is used by the ISP for marketing. It's honestly not a big deal and people need to understand that it won't kill you. After all zos is a company and its primary goal is to make money. It's the same reason you get up to go to work.

Let's take a look at that.

- Does Blizzard have an unstable game (compared to ESO)? No
- Does Blizzard have something similar to the crown store? No
- Does Blizzard put as much focus and advertisement into their store? No
- Does Blizzard put an advertisement that covers the entire screen, every time you log in, for a product you already own? No
- Does Blizzard price their mounts up towards 30-40 euros (elk, etc), and anything even close to 120-150 (house)? No

As a person who has spent 12+ years playing WoW, I don't like what Blizzard has turned into. I would even say that I have an axe to grind with them, when it comes to a majority of their decisions. Compared to Zenimax though? Blizzard could have been the poster child for how to run an MMO.

[Edited] : Back when Blizzard introduced a shop button into the game, people were criticising it and now the button is small (next to help) and doesn't draw any attention. An advertisement that fills up the entire screen? Unimaginable. The things that you let ESO get away with...

Because of your fear of criticism, I expect this post to be deleted within the day.

EasyTiger

jircris11 wrote: »

Funny thing is people are acting as if zos is the only company that does this. Blizzard launcher had one as well. And most free games and websites as well. Hell in the UK this is used by the ISP for marketing. It's honestly not a big deal and people need to understand that it won't kill you. After all zos is a company and its primary goal is to make money. It's the same reason you get up to go to work.

Please provide proof Blizzard uses redshell or anything else you've claimed.

Caran

So just because Blizzard might do it (and lots of other companies) ... it's ok? Anything a company does as long as it's making money for the company is ok?

Cpt_Teemo

Caran wrote: »

So just because Blizzard might do it (and lots of other companies) ... it's ok? Anything a company does as long as it's making money for the company is ok?

I'm also sure Blizzard warns you ahead of time taking precautions not to lose anyone

usmguy1234

Whoops I got caught- Facebook & zenimax 2018

LumbermillOverlord

offtopic: what about facebook?
i didnt read news

jircris11

Aluneth wrote: »

jircris11 wrote: »

Funny thing is people are acting as if zos is the only company that does this. Blizzard launcher had one as well. And most free games and websites as well. Hell in the UK this is used by the ISP for marketing. It's honestly not a big deal and people need to understand that it won't kill you. After all zos is a company and its primary goal is to make money. It's the same reason you get up to go to work.

Let's take a look at that.

- Does Blizzard have an unstable game (compared to ESO)? No
- Does Blizzard have something similar to the crown store? No
- Does Blizzard put as much focus and advertisement into their store? No
- Does Blizzard put an advertisement that covers the entire screen, every time you log in, for a product you already own? No
- Does Blizzard price their mounts up towards 30-40 euros (elk, etc), and anything even close to 120-150 (house)? No

As a person who has spent 12+ years playing WoW, I don't like what Blizzard has turned into. I would even say that I have an axe to grind with them, when it comes to a majority of their decisions. Compared to Zenimax though? Blizzard could have been the poster child for how to run an MMO.

[Edited] : Back when Blizzard introduced a shop button into the game, people were criticising it and now the button is small (next to help) and doesn't draw any attention. An advertisement that fills up the entire screen? Unimaginable. The things that you let ESO get away with...

Because of your fear of criticism, I expect this post to be deleted within the day.

Actually blizzard did worse then eso crown. They still level boosters. Sorry but your entire argument became invalid at that point. As for mounts toy curly have not looked in the store in wow. They still mounts for 20-69 level boost for 60 charter slot expansions for 20 and so on. So please research before posting.