NERF BLEED DAMGE in BGs

hesobad

Bleed damage in no CP BGs is out of control. How is this intended? Do you people even play your own game???? Go into a BG at any time of the day and look at your death recap, it will be bleed and 2H execute spams with Sloads in there. This game is so broken it's pretty much unrepairable at this point. The bleed meta is so damn strong that nothing else can thrive in BGs. All I ask is that you play your damn game and make changes accordingly

Qbiken

Nerfing bleed-damage will only lead to a even more potent heavy armor meta, which I´m not really a fan of. Bleed-damage is after all a very potent way of dealing with high-resistance builds. What needs to be tuned down is defiles (and healing, since we can´t nerf defiles without adjusting healing).

Maulkin

Bleeds in isolation are fine. Something needs to be done about the balance of offence vs defence in no-CP in general. It's very skewed towards damage at the moment. And cheap damage in particular (read: DoTs & Procs)

Azurya

hesobad wrote: »

Bleed damage in no CP BGs is out of control. How is this intended? Do you people even play your own game???? Go into a BG at any time of the day and look at your death recap, it will be bleed and 2H execute spams with Sloads in there. This game is so broken it's pretty much unrepairable at this point. The bleed meta is so damn strong that nothing else can thrive in BGs. All I ask is that you play your damn game and make changes accordingly

better nerf all damage, other then yours in BG and everywhere else!
and sell a Godmode in CS for lets say 2500 dollars/euro?
so all those poor players who could get killed, now can live forever!
must be interesting to watch a duel between 2 godmodes, will take probably centuries............

ChunkyCat

Azurya wrote: »

hesobad wrote: »

Bleed damage in no CP BGs is out of control. How is this intended? Do you people even play your own game???? Go into a BG at any time of the day and look at your death recap, it will be bleed and 2H execute spams with Sloads in there. This game is so broken it's pretty much unrepairable at this point. The bleed meta is so damn strong that nothing else can thrive in BGs. All I ask is that you play your damn game and make changes accordingly

better nerf all damage, other then yours in BG and everywhere else!
and sell a Godmode in CS for lets say 2500 dollars/euro?
so all those poor players who could get killed, now can live forever!
must be interesting to watch a duel between 2 godmodes, will take probably centuries............

If two dueling players each purchased the God Mode token from the crown store, then the winner should be the player who has a history of more crown store purchases than the other God Mode player.

Problem solved.

Solariken

I agree that bleeds and Sload's etc are incredibly imbalanced, but not because of how much damage they deal. It's because the damage is cheap or FREE which is absolutely ridiculous and people who use actual ability rotations will never be able to compete with those builds.

Forget skill, everyone just just needs to don some proc suits and show up to spam heavy attack and Rending Slashes with a sprinkling of Dawnbreakers to be successful. You can deal nice burst and like 12k constant DPS while only spending 200 stamina. This game is on a downward spiral and those clowns on the combat team do nothing.

brandonv516

I've been playing a lot more of my Magplar lately. It's been a lot less stressful than my Magblade lol.

usmguy1234

Qbiken wrote: »

Nerfing bleed-damage will only lead to a even more potent heavy armor meta, which I´m not really a fan of. Bleed-damage is after all a very potent way of dealing with high-resistance builds. What needs to be tuned down is defiles (and healing, since we can´t nerf defiles without adjusting healing).

Then center it around heavy armor. How hard could it be to code if armor > 25k then do x damage if armor <25k then do y damage. The x modifier would be higher obviously and y would be less. This is one way to help with heavy armor without completely nuking the other armor weights. The reason the heavy armor meta exists to begin with is because it greatly increases survivability with very little drawbacks.

Vapirko

Qbiken wrote: »

Nerfing bleed-damage will only lead to a even more potent heavy armor meta, which I´m not really a fan of. Bleed-damage is after all a very potent way of dealing with high-resistance builds. What needs to be tuned down is defiles (and healing, since we can´t nerf defiles without adjusting healing).

Healing was already nerfed. Defile was OP even before that. Let’s adjust defile before we screw with healing again please.

ak_pvp

Qbiken wrote: »

Nerfing bleed-damage will only lead to a even more potent heavy armor meta, which I´m not really a fan of. Bleed-damage is after all a very potent way of dealing with high-resistance builds. What needs to be tuned down is defiles (and healing, since we can´t nerf defiles without adjusting healing).

Heavy armour meta doesn't exist. It died after all the repetitive nerfs to sustain, block cost, wrath, and now JC where the sets aren't limited either. Add defile, sload and bleed meta to heavy, which relies on tanking/healing vs evading its even worse. Then remember that the tanky style is heavily tied to CP, where for example cloak isn't.

Thogard

ak_pvp wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Nerfing bleed-damage will only lead to a even more potent heavy armor meta, which I´m not really a fan of. Bleed-damage is after all a very potent way of dealing with high-resistance builds. What needs to be tuned down is defiles (and healing, since we can´t nerf defiles without adjusting healing).

Heavy armour meta doesn't exist. It died after all the repetitive nerfs to sustain, block cost, wrath, and now JC where the sets aren't limited either. Add defile, sload and bleed meta to heavy, which relies on tanking/healing vs evading its even worse. Then remember that the tanky style is heavily tied to CP, where for example cloak isn't.

This is accurate.

Also, bleeds hurt medium armor a lot more than heavy armor. Heavy isn’t strong because of resistances, it’s strong because of the extra HP and the bonus to healing received, both of which are the counters to bleed. You can’t dodgeroll a bleed once it’s on you.

Apache_Kid

brandonv516 wrote: »

I've been playing a lot more of my Magplar lately. It's been a lot less stressful than my Magblade lol.

Magplars perform exceptionally well in no-CP BGs.

For the record I agree with OP. Stamsorc bleed/dot builds are the most common build in Xbox NA BGs that I run into. Their bleed is overwhelming especially with dw master axes.

hesobad

Solariken wrote: »

I agree that bleeds and Sload's etc are incredibly imbalanced, but not because of how much damage they deal. It's because the damage is cheap or FREE which is absolutely ridiculous and people who use actual ability rotations will never be able to compete with those builds.

Forget skill, everyone just just needs to don some proc suits and show up to spam heavy attack and Rending Slashes with a sprinkling of Dawnbreakers to be successful. You can deal nice burst and like 12k constant DPS while only spending 200 stamina. This game is on a downward spiral and those clowns on the combat team do nothing.

I made a build using dual wield Master weapons and made a high bleed build, and its extremely effective. I get my bleeds up which cost nothing, let them bleed with poison and disease procs, than steel tornado until they die because Steel Tornado can not be dodged. It's just ridiculous.

usmguy1234

hesobad wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

I agree that bleeds and Sload's etc are incredibly imbalanced, but not because of how much damage they deal. It's because the damage is cheap or FREE which is absolutely ridiculous and people who use actual ability rotations will never be able to compete with those builds.

Forget skill, everyone just just needs to don some proc suits and show up to spam heavy attack and Rending Slashes with a sprinkling of Dawnbreakers to be successful. You can deal nice burst and like 12k constant DPS while only spending 200 stamina. This game is on a downward spiral and those clowns on the combat team do nothing.

I made a build using dual wield Master weapons and made a high bleed build, and its extremely effective. I get my bleeds up which cost nothing, let them bleed with poison and disease procs, than steel tornado until they die because Steel Tornado can not be dodged. It's just ridiculous.

This is 90% of bgs now. It's just ridiculous to run into a well coordinated group with 2 stamsorcs with bleed builds. It's literally slash, dawnbreaker, steel tornado...gg. My magdk eats them for a snack by themselves but they are literally unbeatable in a coordinated group.

HeathenDeacon

Solariken wrote: »

I agree that bleeds and Sload's etc are incredibly imbalanced, but not because of how much damage they deal. It's because the damage is cheap or FREE which is absolutely ridiculous and people who use actual ability rotations will never be able to compete with those builds.

Forget skill, everyone just just needs to don some proc suits and show up to spam heavy attack and Rending Slashes with a sprinkling of Dawnbreakers to be successful. You can deal nice burst and like 12k constant DPS while only spending 200 stamina. This game is on a downward spiral and those clowns on the combat team do nothing.

the free cost damage is exactly what drives the bgs meta, and your pretty screwed at this point if you don't play into it.

AS much as i like purist non cp pvp, honestly i don't think there is a solution besides making BGs cp enabled again unless somehow you think overall pvp balance can be achieved using two completely different stat systems at the same time.

wheem_ESO

It would certainly be easier for ZOS to balance things if they didn't leave CP/no-CP split up, but having it all go to CP would just bring back the issue of a lot of players being many hundreds of CP short of the cap. It's kind of cringey when I see "highlight" clips from Cyrodiil of some dude with max CP wrecking people that have like 200.

Perhaps they should take the suggestion to have a second "set" of CP that is only active in PvP, and where everyone has the exact same amount. This would also allow people to have their CP more optimized for either PvE or PvP, without having to constantly spend time and gold switching back and forth. 'Course, if they want to put CP back into Battlegrounds, they need to put in a significant amount of balancing effort; it's already impossible for most randoms to kill a permablocking Magicka Templar that's putting up hundreds of thousands of healing every game, while guarding a high burst damage dealer. If that Templar (and his buddy/buddies) gets boosted survivability, sustain, healing output, etc...from CP, it's just going to be worse.

PvP has existed mostly at the extremes for a long time now - any given target is fairly likely to either explode within a couple seconds, or be virtually unkillable unless focus fired with coordinated ultimates and CC. Having BGs be CP-enabled just makes those extremes even more extreme.

But yea, damaging proc sets need to go the way of the Dodo.

Sparr0w

Azurya wrote: »

hesobad wrote: »

Bleed damage in no CP BGs is out of control. How is this intended? Do you people even play your own game???? Go into a BG at any time of the day and look at your death recap, it will be bleed and 2H execute spams with Sloads in there. This game is so broken it's pretty much unrepairable at this point. The bleed meta is so damn strong that nothing else can thrive in BGs. All I ask is that you play your damn game and make changes accordingly

better nerf all damage, other then yours in BG and everywhere else!
and sell a Godmode in CS for lets say 2500 dollars/euro?
so all those poor players who could get killed, now can live forever!
must be interesting to watch a duel between 2 godmodes, will take probably centuries............

I've seen a duel rage on for over an hour before

Undefwun

Firstly yeah Sload's is over the top... I've resisted so far, but it's really getting to the point where it's 'well crap, might as well just join in till it's nerfed'. Some guy served me up with extra cheese the other day, Caluurion's, Sload's, Zaan's.

How are bleeds out of control, compared to high burst damage? Lot of that on my recap.....
Many times half the BG is stamblades....

Burst builds do the same amount of dmg (enough to kill someone) in a short period of time. You get the drop on the stam sorc, especially if in medium (sustain is terrible in heavy) and they are toast.

You built for burst, if you screw up and the fight drags on that's kinda on you. Am I supposed to not fight back while you line up burst number 2?

To win you need to dump enough dmg to kill me in the shortest time possible (and trust me ppl do it enough, I am still lost on this new toon, I had cloak, healing ward, rapid regen, soul tether or champion's light on the magblade).
For me to win I have to stay out of execute range long enough for the dmg to add up to kill you or at the least stop pressuring me. Arguably, I have to do more dmg, because you will most likely be healing through some of it.

A lot of burst builds have super hard hitting abilities and combos. Anything ranged is a danger.
Templars are a hard counter. So MOST definitely not without a counter.

I went bleeds cos:
a) easier with my Aussie ping (try landing a dizzy 1v1 on someone with 100 (or less) ping while you are 250-350)
b) diff play style to my first PvP toon, a DW magblade, I was just intrigued by their mobility and making enemies die the death by a thousand cuts
c) I didn't want to make a StamBlade, but I am gonna make a Stam DK next.

I understand, dying is annoying. No one likes to be the 'loser' in an encounter, but that's the game. I've yelled the synonym for cat many a times, when I been totaled out of stealth or sniped... but that's the game. All the enemy tactics are 'cheap' when we are on the receiving end....

AsheronRealaidain

brandonv516 wrote: »

I've been playing a lot more of my Magplar lately. It's been a lot less stressful than my Magblade lol.

Yes sir, haven't touched mine in a bit so I spent the past couple weeks gearing my Magplar back up in preparation for Summerset!

casparian

You guys called for no-CP BGs, and now you complain when damage sources that ZOS designed with a CP environment in mind overperform without their intended balance sources (CP mitigation stars).

Morgul667

A nerf to bleed is a nerf to stamsorc and we dont need that

Anethum

Morgul667 wrote: »

A nerf to bleed is a nerf to stamsorc and we dont need that

actually its wrong to say so. its indirect nerf to medium armour, not certain class. everyone can use bleed build and its very effective even on useless more than year in a raw stamdk.

Leandor

I think the only way to balance bleed for both, cp and no-cp, is to tune bleeds to no-cp and then implement a bleed cp that substantially increases bleed damage for cp enabled scenarios.

This would also incur a "cost" for bleeds that matches its benefit and makes them less of a "free damage" proc set facsimile.

NyassaV

Lets start with the bleed from Twin Blade and Blunt. That bleed is worth a bar slot. Too powerful for a proc. The rest can be sorta managed. It's one stamriel anyways so stop complaining

Feanor

All the enemy tactics are 'cheap' when we are on the receiving end....

That’s actually not true. Being outplayed is very different to being outprocced.

Juhasow

Bleeds are not issue on its own. Master dual wield is. This is proc set connected to bleed dmg so we have non stat dependant proc with no enemie resistance dependant dmg type.

wheem_ESO

Had a Stam Sorc earlier hit me with a light attack + Rending Slashes and run away at super speed. The resulting Sload's + Twin Blade and Blunt procs made the total damage pretty LOLWorthy. It was an efficient global cooldown if I've ever seen one.

Vaoh

ZOS has pretty much pushed through unpopular/unwanted nerfs for the past 1-2 years. Considering the state PvP is in now, I genuinely don’t believe it’s balancable anymore tbh

Veg

For everyone thinking that bleeds do not out perform every other DoT just remember that this is pvp. Bleeds are passive. So you can just spam burst damage and automatically get bleed damage on top. Now look at a mDK 2 separate DotS that are either on par with or below bleed damage and each require 1 Global cast time.

Also bleed will never be nerfed so get over it.