With the recent buffs to Light Attack damage, can we please make overland content harder?

Marto

First, I want to say that I perfectly understand why Zenimax decided to make overland content, quests and delves so easy. This is content that people are paying for. Quite a lot, actually, since MMOs tend to be rather expensive games, and ESO is not exception. Being gated out of content is quite an easy way to have new or casual players lose interest.

However, since the rebalance to the Light Attack damage coeficient, I have noticed that playing with a low level character with no champion points has become substantially easier. Now, hopefully, players that aren't skilled, aren't too knowledgeable about mechanics, or have some sort of disability or low reaction times can kill overland mobs. (Edit: I do believe that all of these players should absolutely be given options to make their gameplay experience more enjoyable. My point isn't to make the game harder just to boast, but to make the game sufficiently difficult to be rewarding to all kinds of players, old and new alike)

I think a lot of the playerbase would be really happy if the difficult of enemies during questing was increased. 25% or 50% could be enough to make a huge difference in the pacing of the game, engaging players even more in the ambience, lore, and story of the world.

It also wouldn't need to be a damage boost. A simple health boost could be more than enough to make fights longer without frustrating players. A lot of my less skilled friends had issues with fights like Chodala from the Morrowind Chapter, or the most recent final fight in Summerset. These are encounters that have quite a few, very damaging mechanics. But while new players tend to suffer and be frustrated, experienced players never even get to see these mechanics since enemy health is so low and they die in a handful of seconds.

My specific suggestion would be to slightly reduce the damage all overland enemies deal, while greatly increasing their health values. But I'd also like to see what the rest of the community thinks. But remember guys, new players should absolutely be given the chance to enjoy the game, because they will eventually grow to love it, and become just as good or even better than you.

Thoughts?

Tyrobag

Overland = Easy
Dungeons = Slight Challenge
Vet Dungeons = Moderate to Hard
Trial/Arenas = High Difficulty

This is by design so that there is something for everyone at any experience level. People who are questing generally want to focus on the quests or exploration, if you want to challenge yourself as a player you do the harder content.

Also, I'm sure you didn't mean it like that, but this came out pretty poorly:

Marto wrote: »

Now, even players that aren't skilled, aren't too knowledgeable about mechanics, or have some sort of disability or low reaction times can kill overland mobs.

Makes it sound like you think content should be built to exclude such people, I'd recommend rephrasing..

Klixen

Marto I came here to yell at you, but you've written a very good post, so I won't do that.

But I will disagree with you.

Now, even players that aren't skilled, aren't too knowledgeable about mechanics, or have some sort of disability or low reaction times can kill overland mobs.

This is me, I'm all of the above. When I first started playing ESO I came to these forums complaining about how hard the game was and begging for advice (of which I received. This community is awesome!).

Now that I'm max level with gear and champion points, I'm not having any more trouble. But in those early days, I came very close to quitting and if there had been anything else to play at the time I would have gone.

Honestly, this game is brutally hard for new players. I think a lot of people have forgotten just how punishing it was when they first started.

But I will say this, if they increase the difficulty, this time I WILL STOP PLAYING! It's taken me months to get to the point where I am now and at last I'm having fun. I don't like hard content, so I'm never going near end game content. But I can now solo quests and delves and normal group dungeons and I'm more than happy with that. I'll leave the harder stuff for those who are better players than me (and enjoy a challenge).

But that's the great thing about ESO, if you want a challenge, that content exists. If you just want to play the game and have fun (with a lot of preparation first) then you can do that too.

But if they make the so-called 'easy' content harder, then you'll take away that choice and bad players (like me) won't be able to play anymore

Linaleah

Klixen wrote: »

Marto I came here to yell at you, but you've written a very good post, so I won't do that.

But I will disagree with you.

Now, even players that aren't skilled, aren't too knowledgeable about mechanics, or have some sort of disability or low reaction times can kill overland mobs.

This is me, I'm all of the above. When I first started playing ESO I came to these forums complaining about how hard the game was and begging for advice (of which I received. This community is awesome!).

Now that I'm max level with gear and champion points, I'm not having any more trouble. But in those early days, I came very close to quitting and if there had been anything else to play at the time I would have gone.

Honestly, this game is brutally hard for new players. I think a lot of people have forgotten just how punishing it was when they first started.

But I will say this, if they increase the difficulty, this time I WILL STOP PLAYING! It's taken me months to get to the point where I am now and at last I'm having fun. I don't like hard content, so I'm never going near end game content. But I can now solo quests and delves and normal group dungeons and I'm more than happy with that. I'll leave the harder stuff for those who are better players than me (and enjoy a challenge).

But that's the great thing about ESO, if you want a challenge, that content exists. If you just want to play the game and have fun (with a lot of preparation first) then you can do that too.

But if they make the so-called 'easy' content harder, then you'll take away that choice and bad players (like me) won't be able to play anymore

so.

much.

this.

PLEASE, for the love of god, ZoS, keep overland content as it is RIGHT NOW. I don't think people like Op realize just how many players.. and how much money ZoS is going to lose if they make content harder.

and btw, i will absolutely FULLY admit that the main reason i stopped playing back at launch and stopped again shortly before one tamriel was because for dirty all casual me? the game was too hard. yep. i was dying. a LOT. I wasn't having any fun trying to progress through the game, being stuck in a relatively small area, feeling almost obligated to grind, just so i could outlevel the content even a little bit.

overland content being the difficulty that it is right now, is a large part of why I'm here now. giving ZoS my money.

DanteYoda

No.. stop ruining content

MehrunesFlagon

Make overland mobs more intelligent, and here's a crazy idea.give them some mechanics.

Marto

Tyrobag wrote: »

Also, I'm sure you didn't mean it like that, but this came out pretty poorly:

Marto wrote: »

Now, even players that aren't skilled, aren't too knowledgeable about mechanics, or have some sort of disability or low reaction times can kill overland mobs.

Makes it sound like you think content should be built to exclude such people, I'd recommend rephrasing..

I can't seem to edit the OP... but my point was the opposite. I feel that people that have some sort of disability should absolutely be allowed to play the game, and should be given options that make their experience easier. For instance, I have a friend that only has one hand. He uses classes like Templar and sets like Dreugh King Slayer, so he doesn't have to use many skills.

And to the rest... I'm actually kind of surprised, because I didn't think overland content was that dificult to some. I have tried to limit myself by not using champion points or crafted gear, just to see how the balance changed with the new Light Attacks.

Maybe my memory of when I was a new player 3 years ago is fuzzy.

Thank you for your comments.

Linaleah

Marto wrote: »

Tyrobag wrote: »

Also, I'm sure you didn't mean it like that, but this came out pretty poorly:

Marto wrote: »

Now, even players that aren't skilled, aren't too knowledgeable about mechanics, or have some sort of disability or low reaction times can kill overland mobs.

Makes it sound like you think content should be built to exclude such people, I'd recommend rephrasing..

I can't seem to edit the OP... but my point was the opposite. I feel that people that have some sort of disability should absolutely be allowed to play the game, and should be given options that make their experience easier. For instance, I have a friend that only has one hand. He uses classes like Templar and sets like Dreugh King Slayer, so he doesn't have to use many skills.

And to the rest... I'm actually kind of surprised, because I didn't think overland content was that dificult to some. I have tried to limit myself by not using champion points or crafted gear, just to see how the balance changed with the new Light Attacks.

Maybe my memory of when I was a new player 3 years ago is fuzzy.

Thank you for your comments.

to edit your post, go all the way up to the title, the edit gear is next to it.

and on to actual reply. consider the possibility that even when we are all new to the game.. some people STILL have harder time than others. that skill gap doesn't just happen eventually - its there from the very start. it just grows larger as we grow more familiar with the game.

moreover.. having an option, IMO at least should not mean "you can only play this one or 2 classes" it should be - you have this particular difficulty of CONTENT available to you, while more challenging difficulties are meant for more skilled players. yes, i know there are a lot of games that function precisely based on "pick a character that is less or more challenging to play" but I cannot think of a single one that is an rpg.

TheUndeadAmulet

idk

I find it odd that people want to find their challenge in overland mobs.

There is a clear design for tiered difficulty in the game. Tyrobag points it out in the second post of this thread. That is the way it is and the way it will remain.

MLGProPlayer

They need to add some sort of debuff for tbose of us who want a challenge.

MLGProPlayer

Tyrobag wrote: »

Overland = Easy
Dungeons = Slight Challenge
Vet Dungeons = Moderate to Hard
Trial/Arenas = High Difficulty

This is by design so that there is something for everyone at any experience level. People who are questing generally want to focus on the quests or exploration, if you want to challenge yourself as a player you do the harder content.

Also, I'm sure you didn't mean it like that, but this came out pretty poorly:

Marto wrote: »

Now, even players that aren't skilled, aren't too knowledgeable about mechanics, or have some sort of disability or low reaction times can kill overland mobs.

Makes it sound like you think content should be built to exclude such people, I'd recommend rephrasing..

Dungeons and trials have a normal and veteran mode. Overland only has a nornal mode.

Overland is the overwhelming majority of content in this game though. Endgame players definitely get the short end of the stick in terms of content and tbat isn't fair either.

There is quite a bit of greed coming from the easy mode brigade that shoots down any suggestions for more difficult content. This game needs to appeal to new players and vets alike. Right now, it heavily favours new players.

Marto

idk wrote: »

I find it odd that people want to find their challenge in overland mobs.

There is a clear design for tiered difficulty in the game. Tyrobag points it out in the second post of this thread. That is the way it is and the way it will remain.

Oh I know. I do want all these things to have different difficulties for different types of players, I just feel overland could use a tiny bump. But of course, I'm not the only opinion, so I want to see what others think.

TheUndeadAmulet wrote: »

Zenimax pls giv Champion Point toggle so I can turn them off without having to spend 3000g.

dsalter

Tyrobag wrote: »

Overland = Easy
Dungeons = Slight Challenge
Vet Dungeons = Moderate to Hard
Trial/Arenas = High Difficulty

This is by design so that there is something for everyone at any experience level. People who are questing generally want to focus on the quests or exploration, if you want to challenge yourself as a player you do the harder content.

Also, I'm sure you didn't mean it like that, but this came out pretty poorly:

Marto wrote: »

Now, even players that aren't skilled, aren't too knowledgeable about mechanics, or have some sort of disability or low reaction times can kill overland mobs.

Makes it sound like you think content should be built to exclude such people, I'd recommend rephrasing..

the problem is, overland is also ment to prepare you for the next step, but it doesnt, its basically "very easy" into "normal mode" its a bit of a jump but not an extreme one

Linaleah

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Tyrobag wrote: »

Overland = Easy
Dungeons = Slight Challenge
Vet Dungeons = Moderate to Hard
Trial/Arenas = High Difficulty

This is by design so that there is something for everyone at any experience level. People who are questing generally want to focus on the quests or exploration, if you want to challenge yourself as a player you do the harder content.

Also, I'm sure you didn't mean it like that, but this came out pretty poorly:

Marto wrote: »

Now, even players that aren't skilled, aren't too knowledgeable about mechanics, or have some sort of disability or low reaction times can kill overland mobs.

Makes it sound like you think content should be built to exclude such people, I'd recommend rephrasing..

Dungeons and trials have a normal and veteran mode. Overland only has a nornal mode.

Overland is the overwhelming majority of content in this game though. Endgame players definitely get the short end of the stick in terms of content and tbat isn't fair either.

There is quite a bit of greed coming from the easy mode brigade that shoots down any suggestions for more difficult content. This game needs to appeal to new players and vets alike. Right now, it heavily favours new players.

I think the "make it harder" brigade is the greedy one. because keep it as is, with addendum for "make an optional vet difficulty that you have to enabled/go to a different instance for" in inclusive of all types of players. while if "just make it harder and have casuals learn to be better" brigade is not.

AuldWolf

No thanks. I don't want the difficulty creep cycle killing ESO. If Zenimax listens to complaints like these, it sets a precedent. This ten sets the difficulty creep ball rolling, and it rolls out of control until every casual player leaves and the MMO dies. This has happened to a number of my favourite MMOs, and a bunch of non-MMO online games I've played as well. Nothing --
absolutely nothing -- kills MMO population levels like difficulty creep.

95 per cent of players never min-max and aren't interested in the 'challenge' that the minority desire. Just be happy you have trials, it's relevant to the size of your demographic. The reason the overworld and dungeons are the way they are is to suit the biggest demographic. So far, ZOS has been smart about this, I hope they continue to be.

Other games I've played have just raised the difficulty whenever the community wanted it, and as the desire was met, the community got more and more demanding; This lead to the developer being more cowardly and increasing the difficulty more just to stop forum rioting. And then they were surprised when their game died due to everyone leaving, they wondered why. It's pretty obvious, really. It's pretty obvious every time it's happened. And I'm getting fed up of that cycle. So... no more of that, please and thank you.

Let the game thrive and be happy with the content you have, relevant to the size of your demographic. Demand more, and you will kill the game. It's happened before, it'll happen again.

Sergykid

not needed for damage sponges. Overland mobs are there just for the MMO design. World bosses are a good enough challenge for the average player.

xericdx

As usual, I copy the link to a discussion I started

xericdx wrote: »

Hello,

Let me start by saying that I generally like/have no problem with the concept of One Tamriel and the new scaling system it brought along. My idea is not to remove that and definitely not screwing players who are fine with the current difficulty level.

However, I think there is a shared feeling that PVE combat, with a few end-game exceptions, becomes completely obsolete once you hit a certain amount of CP. I would like to keep playing some quests from time to time but the impossibly weak NPCs make any combat extremely dull, with no challenge at all. Of course, there is always the possibility to run naked and/or not apply CP, but I think only a very small minority would do that (crazy people running MA naked, am looking at you ). Self-punishing only slow down content progress and does not really add more fun.

Can we introduce a sort of "training suit/fountain/artefact" that debuff the player enough so that we can have some challenge and attach some rewards to it ? For example, some XP bonus and rewards from a Deadra/NPC who is challenging the player to prove him/herself. There could be "levels" of buff that allow player to choose how much punishment they want and can touch stats such as blocking CPs, increasing damage received, reducing damage output, etc.

I would not go for any game breaking addition, no need to make this the new best XP grinding system or a must do to get amazing items. Just enough so that we have compensation for the increase difficulty and slower progress towards content.

Am sure we can work out something that is lore-friendly and that does not force people into following this if they don't like to.

Have a strong feeling that I am not the first one with such ideas but let me know what you think.

... Would love to get some fun out the contents I left behind....

EDIT for clarity. Am not proposing any permanent device but something that can be toggled on and off when you want some extra challenge.

This topic comes up regularly, as many of us like to do some quests but fights are terribly boring after a certain cap. And simply going naked is not fun for almost anyone...does not really fit the great hero RP (or any other RP a part from the clown).... I fully agree that we should not change the difficulty for everyone, which is why I keep saying that the best (only?) way is to leave people a CHOICE.

Cheers