IS the skill/lvl system in ESO loaded towards late lvls and endgame?

Madrax573

I've played way too many MMO's over the past few decades and I am starting to think ESO may have it a bit backasswards.

The endgame/high lvl setup of ESO is trying to pigeonhole you into picking one thing or the other (mag/stam for eg).
This is simply a function of how many abilities/effects are % of max things.

Most games offer a system of 'diminished returns' i.e. as you invest more points into something those points are reduced in value. ESO is opposite where the more you invest into single thing the bigger your return is. This itself leads to a huge min/maxing culture which I think is pretty self evident in ESO.

Whereas a change to make it more of a dimished return system would give ESO a huge boost in viable variances in char setup etc

Just and observation and point for discussion.

Tandor

Only a very small proportion of players is likely to be concerned with the min/maxing culture. For everyone else there is nothing in the game that cannot be done with any build, and there are respec opportunities for those who want to change things at any time.

My understanding from the comments of those players with capped champion points is in any event that there is a diminished return in ESO in that the number and allocation of CPs makes an increasingly significant difference up to about 300 or 400 CPs, after which the rate of significance drops off substantially.

Yakidafi

Eso used to have that system, but changed it. I think both systems cause the same kind of min max anyway.

Madrax573

Yakidafi wrote: »

Eso used to have that system, but changed it. I think both systems cause the same kind of min max anyway.

When was it changed as that is the current system I described. I know there was a slight change to CP where it is more front loaded to try and get people to spread their CP around a bit more but the whole +% max that abilities and passives gives is still a top loaded system. Thats simply how the maths works out.

SirMewser

Madrax573 wrote: »

Yakidafi wrote: »

Eso used to have that system, but changed it. I think both systems cause the same kind of min max anyway.

When was it changed as that is the current system I described. I know there was a slight change to CP where it is more front loaded to try and get people to spread their CP around a bit more but the whole +% max that abilities and passives gives is still a top loaded system. Thats simply how the maths works out.

Right here...

Madrax573 wrote: »

Most games offer a system of 'diminished returns' i.e. as you invest more points into something those points are reduced in value.

ESO use to have soft and hard caps on stats, disregard the CP system, it didn't exist then.

gnarlyvandal

I actually think there’s more choices without diminishing returns. If you look around at DPS threads, there are a lot of experienced players saying that even the hardest content in this game can be completed with 20k dps, which should be doable on hybrid builds, especially with sets like pelinals in game and it being easier to 5-5-2 sets with the recent buff 2h weaps
It’s more the player base that ask for higher dps so that the experience is easier for the group, which usually means having to min/max into one area

runicnomad

gnarlyvandal wrote: »

It’s more the player base that ask for higher dps so that the experience is easier for the group, which usually means having to min/max into one area

This right here is the only reason why anyone even bothers min/maxing in ESO
There is nothing that can not be done with hybrids or even bad builds. Just add some more time to encounter.
I am from an age where an MMO raid or similar required precision and serious time. Now people complain if you cant burn through something in 20 mins tops. So in the end it is players that have really created the idea of top specs and gear because it is a meta game within MMOs for bragging rights and personal challenge. None of the content forces any kind of top gear or rotation or pigeon holing. That is just the player base.

runagate

Tandor wrote: »

Only a very small proportion of players is likely to be concerned with the min/maxing culture. For everyone else there is nothing in the game that cannot be done with any build, and there are respec opportunities for those who want to change things at any time.

My understanding from the comments of those players with capped champion points is in any event that there is a diminished return in ESO in that the number and allocation of CPs makes an increasingly significant difference up to about 300 or 400 CPs, after which the rate of significance drops off substantially.

The OP is referring to something much, much simpler than this. The mechanism whereby NOT putting ALL points into stamina or magicka, or related bonuses whatever their source, massively weakens a character's effectiveness.

For instance, when we first started playing and had no freaking idea how anything worked everyone used attribute points to put into health because you got 1.5 health/attribute point, as opposed to the 1:1 ratio for stam/mag.

Or you would never NOT put all points towards weapon damage on a stam character.. putting points into something magicka-damage related makes so little sense that there's simply no reason to do it. Some things did not act like that long ago, notable class/race bonuses to damage types - for instance, Mighty contributing to Poison damage, etc. which I think was actually a really good change, but it's an example of what the OP means. Diminishing returns is in fact a mechanism in CP but it still makes basically no sense to put points into things aside from the most pertinent areas of one's role unless you have nowhere else to spend them.

Madrax573

runagate wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Only a very small proportion of players is likely to be concerned with the min/maxing culture. For everyone else there is nothing in the game that cannot be done with any build, and there are respec opportunities for those who want to change things at any time.

My understanding from the comments of those players with capped champion points is in any event that there is a diminished return in ESO in that the number and allocation of CPs makes an increasingly significant difference up to about 300 or 400 CPs, after which the rate of significance drops off substantially.

The OP is referring to something much, much simpler than this. The mechanism whereby NOT putting ALL points into stamina or magicka, or related bonuses whatever their source, massively weakens a character's effectiveness.

For instance, when we first started playing and had no freaking idea how anything worked everyone used attribute points to put into health because you got 1.5 health/attribute point, as opposed to the 1:1 ratio for stam/mag.

Or you would never NOT put all points towards weapon damage on a stam character.. putting points into something magicka-damage related makes so little sense that there's simply no reason to do it. Some things did not act like that long ago, notable class/race bonuses to damage types - for instance, Mighty contributing to Poison damage, etc. which I think was actually a really good change, but it's an example of what the OP means. Diminishing returns is in fact a mechanism in CP but it still makes basically no sense to put points into things aside from the most pertinent areas of one's role unless you have nowhere else to spend them.

@runagate Gets it.

With the current system not max loading your main stat is just daft as you miss out on so much potential damage application.

Now if the Racials passives and active abilities were straight up numbers then you'd have a much more compelling reason to spread points around etc and you would only need to spend points on stats to allow you to use abilities based on those pools for longer.

While I like that the ESO class system is extremely flexible it still tries to put you in a single use box depending on your build at the time. Something that is very much different to the standard TES games.