Doomed For Failure?

usmguy1234

A majority of things wrong with pvp summed up very well in one video. I encourage you if you care about pvp in eso to spread this video around. Zenimax you need to watch this. All credit goes to HoboWithAStick_.

https://youtu.be/hL-M9fLXyAM

SugaComa

What an utter crock of ***

Only 1 thing mentioned is remotely true ... That CP is creating elitist groups ... But not all groups are elitist ... Some are great ... The guilds I am in are all fantastic at helping people ... It's real non toxic community.

This is just sensationalism nothing more

Waffennacht

After 4 years, I don't think anything is "doomed for failure" lol

usmguy1234

SugaComa wrote: »

What an utter crock of ***

Only 1 thing mentioned is remotely true ... That CP is creating elitist groups ... But not all groups are elitist ... Some are great ... The guilds I am in are all fantastic at helping people ... It's real non toxic community.

This is just sensationalism nothing more

We must not be playing the same game. He lays out very good points and there is more than enough proof for those points.

Waffennacht wrote: »

After 4 years, I don't think anything is "doomed for failure" lol

4 years is relatively short in terms of mmo life.

Ragnarock41

is ESO PvP doomed for failure? Yes. at this point I can safely say that.

is ESO itself doomed to failure? Nah. PvE community seems just fine.

ShadowMonarch

Depends on your definition of failure, they are making money hand over foot so I don't know if you could call it a failure even it the game shut down today.

Starlight_Knight

You almost had some good points, Not sure what all the hate was about on the nbs incap when you could have called out other class skills as well or stupid proc sets instead - like sloads and shield breaker and zan etc ( and the fact zos said they were moving away from proc sets ) - also crazy ass op dodge chance is a thing.
But you're right in saying that pvp is dead for the solo player, and also right in saying that the "balances" are contributing to the toxic player base in pvp as its just not competitive 99% of the time.

The p2w arguments are almost a good point to, however i do think that ESO is a premium game, there is nothing else on the market atm like it and it has many of supporters who will happily pay for these features and enjoy them. ( my problem is with the ESO+ and "chapters" )

In summery i don't believe ESO is doomed for failure, but i do relate to the bitterness it leaves us pvpers with after every update we're forced to play in laggy neglected content.

Ragnarock41

usmguy1234 wrote: »

SugaComa wrote: »

What an utter crock of ***

Only 1 thing mentioned is remotely true ... That CP is creating elitist groups ... But not all groups are elitist ... Some are great ... The guilds I am in are all fantastic at helping people ... It's real non toxic community.

This is just sensationalism nothing more

We must not be playing the same game. He lays out very good points and there is more than enough proof for those points.

Waffennacht wrote: »

After 4 years, I don't think anything is "doomed for failure" lol

4 years is relatively short in terms of mmo life.

gaming history is full of endless MMO's that failed before finishing their first 4 years. 4 years is a pretty good mark actually.
But then again, even massive failures like archeage can still generate enough value to keep the servers open after 4 years, so Its not a huge success either.

usmguy1234

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

is ESO PvP doomed for failure? Yes. at this point I can safely say that.

is ESO itself doomed to failure? Nah. PvE community seems just fine.

I prefaced this was purely pvp related.

Brutusmax1mus

Lag is the only thing killing it for me. Everything else is manageable.

Ragnarock41

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

is ESO PvP doomed for failure? Yes. at this point I can safely say that.

is ESO itself doomed to failure? Nah. PvE community seems just fine.

I prefaced this was purely pvp related.

Which is why it is unimportant to Zenimax.

usmguy1234

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

SugaComa wrote: »

What an utter crock of ***

Only 1 thing mentioned is remotely true ... That CP is creating elitist groups ... But not all groups are elitist ... Some are great ... The guilds I am in are all fantastic at helping people ... It's real non toxic community.

This is just sensationalism nothing more

We must not be playing the same game. He lays out very good points and there is more than enough proof for those points.

Waffennacht wrote: »

After 4 years, I don't think anything is "doomed for failure" lol

4 years is relatively short in terms of mmo life.

gaming history is full of endless MMO's that failed before finishing their first 4 years. 4 years is a pretty good mark actually.
But then again, even massive failures like archeage can still generate enough value to keep the servers open after 4 years, so Its not a huge success either.

How many of those failed mmos have such a rich history as the elder scrolls series does or the fanbase? This game could have easily been the best mmo of this decade. I love this game...I haven't played any other game this seriously since it came out. That being said every patch as the performance gets worse I play less and less. I feel like a lot of people feel this way.

usmguy1234

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

is ESO PvP doomed for failure? Yes. at this point I can safely say that.

is ESO itself doomed to failure? Nah. PvE community seems just fine.

I prefaced this was purely pvp related.

Which is why it is unimportant to Zenimax.

All aspects of thisl game should be important to its developer but I guess I live in a fantasy world.

Ragnarock41

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

SugaComa wrote: »

What an utter crock of ***

Only 1 thing mentioned is remotely true ... That CP is creating elitist groups ... But not all groups are elitist ... Some are great ... The guilds I am in are all fantastic at helping people ... It's real non toxic community.

This is just sensationalism nothing more

We must not be playing the same game. He lays out very good points and there is more than enough proof for those points.

Waffennacht wrote: »

After 4 years, I don't think anything is "doomed for failure" lol

4 years is relatively short in terms of mmo life.

gaming history is full of endless MMO's that failed before finishing their first 4 years. 4 years is a pretty good mark actually.
But then again, even massive failures like archeage can still generate enough value to keep the servers open after 4 years, so Its not a huge success either.

How many of those failed mmos have such a rich history as the elder scrolls series does or the fanbase? This game could have easily been the best mmo of this decade. I love this game...I haven't played any other game this seriously since it came out. That being said every patch as the performance gets worse I play less and less. I feel like a lot of people feel this way.

And what does any of that has to do with the fact that ZOS does not give a damn about PvP? PvP was like this for years and it will mostly stay as what it is. IF you're expecting zenimax to read this and say ''oh, we messed up, lets fix PvP'', then you are living in a denial.

usmguy1234

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

SugaComa wrote: »

What an utter crock of ***

Only 1 thing mentioned is remotely true ... That CP is creating elitist groups ... But not all groups are elitist ... Some are great ... The guilds I am in are all fantastic at helping people ... It's real non toxic community.

This is just sensationalism nothing more

We must not be playing the same game. He lays out very good points and there is more than enough proof for those points.

Waffennacht wrote: »

After 4 years, I don't think anything is "doomed for failure" lol

4 years is relatively short in terms of mmo life.

gaming history is full of endless MMO's that failed before finishing their first 4 years. 4 years is a pretty good mark actually.
But then again, even massive failures like archeage can still generate enough value to keep the servers open after 4 years, so Its not a huge success either.

How many of those failed mmos have such a rich history as the elder scrolls series does or the fanbase? This game could have easily been the best mmo of this decade. I love this game...I haven't played any other game this seriously since it came out. That being said every patch as the performance gets worse I play less and less. I feel like a lot of people feel this way.

And what does any of that has to do with the fact that ZOS does not give a damn about PvP? PvP was like this for years and it will mostly stay as what it is. IF you're expecting zenimax to read this and say ''oh, we messed up, lets fix PvP'', then you are living in a denial.

And you know as well as I these issues are not purely related to pvp. Ever been in a trial raid with ppl screaming for everyone to put up their pet as to not crash the entire raid? Like I said for clarity sake I want to keep the conversation pvp related as that's what I played lately since all my friends have left and guilds have been gutted.

exeeter702

What a bunch of adolescent sensational nonsense.

Kel

I replied in the comments section of the video, but I'll do it here as well.
It's not pay to win. Gold crafted jewelry can still be acquired from friends/guildies or from guild traders. And there's no mmo that you gain access to that expansions content without paying for it. You couldn't play as a Demon Hunter in WoW if you didn't buy the expansion, nor could you gain access to any of the gear or skills unless you paid for the expansion, yet no one screams "pay to win" in WoW. It's EXACTLY the same in ESO, with the big diffrence being you still have a path to gold jewelry in ESO without buying the "expansion", or in this case, the chapter.
Second, there's a reason players chose Vivec over Sotha Sil, that's because players want cp, as much as they insist they do not. If players actually wanted to play with no cp, Sotha Sil would be constantly pop locked...but it's barren. You can't blame Zos for players choice, and players overwhelming choose cp. Every player: "There needs to be no cp in PvP!"...meanwhile a no cp campaign sits empty...funny logic that, eh?
I do agree that "exposed" videos are some of the most childish, toxic crap out there. It's trash, and it's caused a playerbase that's so terrified to die....shame even the best players in PvP die on a regular basis.
Lost alot of respect for Hobo after this video. Saying the game is dying....smh. It's a meme at this point. "You tubers are saying the game is dying...that's all you need to know..." What a joke. Unsubscribed immediately after hearing that. You're not going to say a game is dying while still making content/money for it and get my sub. Honestly don't care if I'm missed or not, that's a low statement for someone who's made a living off the game. You're supposed to prop it up. Yes, speak honestly about its shortcomings in the hope to fix it, not put nails in its coffin.
Disappointed....

Waffennacht

jabrone77 wrote: »

I replied in the comments section of the video, but I'll do it here as well.
It's not pay to win. Gold crafted jewelry can still be acquired from friends/guildies or from guild traders. And there's no mmo that you gain access to that expansions content without paying for it. You couldn't play as a Demon Hunter in WoW if you didn't buy the expansion, nor could you gain access to any of the gear or skills unless you paid for the expansion, yet no one screams "pay to win" in WoW. It's EXACTLY the same in ESO, with the big diffrence being you still have a path to gold jewelry in ESO without buying the "expansion", or in this case, the chapter.
Second, there's a reason players chose Vivec over Sotha Sil, that's because players want cp, as much as they insist they do not. If players actually wanted to play with no cp, Sotha Sil would be constantly pop locked...but it's barren. You can't blame Zos for players choice, and players overwhelming choose cp. Every player: "There needs to be no cp in PvP!"...meanwhile a no cp campaign sits empty...funny logic that, eh?
I do agree that "exposed" videos are some of the most childish, toxic crap out there. It's trash, and it's caused a playerbase that's so terrified to die....shame even the best players in PvP die on a regular basis.
Lost alot of respect for Hobo after this video. Saying the game is dying....smh. It's a meme at this point. "You tubers are saying the game is dying...that's all you need to know..." What a joke. Unsubscribed immediately after hearing that. You're not going to say a game is dying while still making content/money for it and get my sub. Honestly don't care if I'm missed or not, that's a low statement for someone who's made a living off the game. You're supposed to prop it up. Yes, speak honestly about its shortcomings in the hope to fix it, not put nails in its coffin.
Disappointed....

My God, I wish I could give you more awesomes. And agrees. You said everything I wanted

Jsmalls

My biggest gripe is that solo PvP was neutered, kicked in the stomach, and left out to die.

With that comes the shortening of the skill gap that has become so clearly present, and the MASSIVE defenses any character can take I'm a 1v1 scenario. If you don't get a character from 100 to 0 in 1 second flat the fight will reset. And with the standard players health sitting around 25k+... It's just not happening anymore.

So many sets carry the player to cover their lack of skill. It's horrific.

I'm just here until another MMO with open world PvP comes along on Xbone. Which is ashame because I LOVED this game to death.

usmguy1234

Jsmalls wrote: »

My biggest gripe is that solo PvP was neutered, kicked in the stomach, and left out to die.

With that comes the shortening of the skill gap that has become so clearly present, and the MASSIVE defenses any character can take I'm a 1v1 scenario. If you don't get a character from 100 to 0 in 1 second flat the fight will reset. And with the standard players health sitting around 25k+... It's just not happening anymore.

So many sets carry the player to cover their lack of skill. It's horrific.

I'm just here until another MMO with open world PvP comes along on Xbone. Which is ashame because I LOVED this game to death.

Same here. This is exactly the way I feel. Looks like the one button smashers have swarmed this thread. It's to be expected I guess...all they want brainless pvp with endless zergs full of cheese builds.

NBrookus

I agree with some of what he says, but he's overstating some issues. I don't think ESO is dying. The PVE side keeps getting better. But Cyro... the devs clearly have no interest in fostering skilled play.

What I think ZOS wants is casual friendly pvp, that any player can hop on, grab some gear that does something that sounds cool and jump into a big battle and kill other players. Problem is the only effective way for a solo player to do this is to zerg up, and when pug zerg meets competent guild group, it's a slaughter. Does anyone find repeatedly dying to the same group of players fun?

So instead of encouraging players to learn pvp like they learn dungeons or trials, they introduce more mechanics that ensures victory = numbers alone. It chases off the more dedicated pvp'ers to favor casuals. There are a lot more potential casuals out there, so maybe it'll end up being more profitable for them, but casuals that jump from game to game don't create stable, lasting communities.

JWillCHS

NBrookus wrote: »

I agree with some of what he says, but he's overstating some issues. I don't think ESO is dying. The PVE side keeps getting better. But Cyro... the devs clearly have no interest in fostering skilled play.

What I think ZOS wants is casual friendly pvp, that any player can hop on, grab some gear that does something that sounds cool and jump into a big battle and kill other players. Problem is the only effective way for a solo player to do this is to zerg up, and when pug zerg meets competent guild group, it's a slaughter. Does anyone find repeatedly dying to the same group of players fun?

So instead of encouraging players to learn pvp like they learn dungeons or trials, they introduce more mechanics that ensures victory = numbers alone. It chases off the more dedicated pvp'ers to favor casuals. There are a lot more potential casuals out there, so maybe it'll end up being more profitable for them, but casuals that jump from game to game don't create stable, lasting communities.

The reason why ZoS does not encourage small-scale or "skilled" base PvP is because the complexity of it all is synonymous with broken. I'm not necessarily talking about classes not being balanced but the mechanics behind the game has always created a by-product that was not intentional.

Kel

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

My biggest gripe is that solo PvP was neutered, kicked in the stomach, and left out to die.

With that comes the shortening of the skill gap that has become so clearly present, and the MASSIVE defenses any character can take I'm a 1v1 scenario. If you don't get a character from 100 to 0 in 1 second flat the fight will reset. And with the standard players health sitting around 25k+... It's just not happening anymore.

So many sets carry the player to cover their lack of skill. It's horrific.

I'm just here until another MMO with open world PvP comes along on Xbone. Which is ashame because I LOVED this game to death.

Same here. This is exactly the way I feel. Looks like the one button smashers have swarmed this thread. It's to be expected I guess...all they want brainless pvp with endless zergs full of cheese builds.

Let's not pretend you aren't obviously bias with some agenda of your own here, if that's your point of view. Most people here are saying he's making some good points, mostly about solo/small scale play and player skill, but don't agree with him 100%. No one's mentioned anything to do with your hyperbolic statement. Don't get butthurt because not everyone's taking his word for 100% correct. If you can't handle opposing points of view, you shouldn't have posted a video who's overall message is "the game is dying". Seems you are the only one failing to be objective. I'm sure using insults and putting labels on people and who disagree with you will surly change minds. That's always worked out great....

usmguy1234

jabrone77 wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

My biggest gripe is that solo PvP was neutered, kicked in the stomach, and left out to die.

With that comes the shortening of the skill gap that has become so clearly present, and the MASSIVE defenses any character can take I'm a 1v1 scenario. If you don't get a character from 100 to 0 in 1 second flat the fight will reset. And with the standard players health sitting around 25k+... It's just not happening anymore.

So many sets carry the player to cover their lack of skill. It's horrific.

I'm just here until another MMO with open world PvP comes along on Xbone. Which is ashame because I LOVED this game to death.

Same here. This is exactly the way I feel. Looks like the one button smashers have swarmed this thread. It's to be expected I guess...all they want brainless pvp with endless zergs full of cheese builds.

Let's not pretend you aren't obviously bias with some agenda of your own here, if that's your point of view. Most people here are saying he's making some good points, mostly about solo/small scale play and player skill, but don't agree with him 100%. No one's mentioned anything to do with your hyperbolic statement. Don't get butthurt because not everyone's taking his word for 100% correct. If you can't handle opposing points of view, you shouldn't have posted a video who's overall message is "the game is dying". Seems you are the only one failing to be objective. I'm sure using insults and putting labels on people and who disagree with you will surly change minds. That's always worked out great....

Seems you misunderstood my comment. I was referring to the people who strongly disagree with the entire video. Even I don't agree with all of the points he made... for instance, I could care less about incap. As a non-nightblade player it use to bother me but that was a testament to my own skill level and as I've progressed, it's bothered me less. Another example is jewelry crafting. I don't agree that it's pay to win. Yes it will make some very strong combos to compete with but it's not to the point of game breaking. However, what I do have an issue with is server performance and general game performance as well as the zerginess of the open world PvP campaigns. I get you'll probably say go to battle grounds... and I do enjoy those but not as much as open world PvP. I get you'll probably say cyrodiil was meant for zergs and I understand that to a point... and probably wouldn't even mind it if it weren't for the issues I noted above plus some of the ones in the video.

I apologize as it seems my comment has bothered you and for that I am sorry. It's difficult to stay objective when you really care about something and feel shafted or when others blow it off completely like you don't have a point.

usmguy1234

NBrookus wrote: »

I agree with some of what he says, but he's overstating some issues. I don't think ESO is dying. The PVE side keeps getting better. But Cyro... the devs clearly have no interest in fostering skilled play.

What I think ZOS wants is casual friendly pvp, that any player can hop on, grab some gear that does something that sounds cool and jump into a big battle and kill other players. Problem is the only effective way for a solo player to do this is to zerg up, and when pug zerg meets competent guild group, it's a slaughter. Does anyone find repeatedly dying to the same group of players fun?

So instead of encouraging players to learn pvp like they learn dungeons or trials, they introduce more mechanics that ensures victory = numbers alone. It chases off the more dedicated pvp'ers to favor casuals. There are a lot more potential casuals out there, so maybe it'll end up being more profitable for them, but casuals that jump from game to game don't create stable, lasting communities.

Very well written.

SugaComa

jabrone77 wrote: »

I replied in the comments section of the video, but I'll do it here as well.
It's not pay to win. Gold crafted jewelry can still be acquired from friends/guildies or from guild traders. And there's no mmo that you gain access to that expansions content without paying for it. You couldn't play as a Demon Hunter in WoW if you didn't buy the expansion, nor could you gain access to any of the gear or skills unless you paid for the expansion, yet no one screams "pay to win" in WoW. It's EXACTLY the same in ESO, with the big diffrence being you still have a path to gold jewelry in ESO without buying the "expansion", or in this case, the chapter.
Second, there's a reason players chose Vivec over Sotha Sil, that's because players want cp, as much as they insist they do not. If players actually wanted to play with no cp, Sotha Sil would be constantly pop locked...but it's barren. You can't blame Zos for players choice, and players overwhelming choose cp. Every player: "There needs to be no cp in PvP!"...meanwhile a no cp campaign sits empty...funny logic that, eh?
I do agree that "exposed" videos are some of the most childish, toxic crap out there. It's trash, and it's caused a playerbase that's so terrified to die....shame even the best players in PvP die on a regular basis.
Lost alot of respect for Hobo after this video. Saying the game is dying....smh. It's a meme at this point. "You tubers are saying the game is dying...that's all you need to know..." What a joke. Unsubscribed immediately after hearing that. You're not going to say a game is dying while still making content/money for it and get my sub. Honestly don't care if I'm missed or not, that's a low statement for someone who's made a living off the game. You're supposed to prop it up. Yes, speak honestly about its shortcomings in the hope to fix it, not put nails in its coffin.
Disappointed....

This way more articulated than my comment ...

Thank you

SugaComa

In truth if you truly wanted a better PvP in cyrodil the answer is creating a 4 hour challenge mode against guilds

Essentially your guild challenges 2 other guilds at a set time then you play 4 hours ... Reduce the map size ... Point scoring works the same getting emp n scrolls give tactical advantages plus bonus points

Score evaluation us every 20 minutes

One addition to add that could be added to campaign cyrodil could be battlefields open areas between keeps where open world battles give increased ap and points scoring towards campaign but no siege can be used

usmguy1234

SugaComa wrote: »

In truth if you truly wanted a better PvP in cyrodil the answer is creating a 4 hour challenge mode against guilds

Essentially your guild challenges 2 other guilds at a set time then you play 4 hours ... Reduce the map size ... Point scoring works the same getting emp n scrolls give tactical advantages plus bonus points

Score evaluation us every 20 minutes

One addition to add that could be added to campaign cyrodil could be battlefields open areas between keeps where open world battles give increased ap and points scoring towards campaign but no siege can be used

Thank you for the constructive input. This is a nice idea and would breath life back in to the pvp based guilds. Might even rejuvenate alliance pride that was lost in one Tamriel.

OGLezard

Just like I said on the channel, number 8 is nonsense. It is 100% NOT pay to win just because someone refuses to buy an expansion. Everything else I could get behind.

Unless you are buying equipment from the crown store that gives you stats, we are not pay to win.....yet

Gilvoth

exeeter702 wrote: »

What a bunch of adolescent sensational nonsense.

well said, in addition to that it is very one side slanted to his opinion and his friends.
there are alot of people playing eso, his video and beliefs probably represent about 10 people maybe 15 at most.

i disagree with everything he said in his video.

usmguy1234

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

What a bunch of adolescent sensational nonsense.

well said, in addition to that it is very one side slanted to his opinion and his friends.
there are alot of people playing eso, his video and beliefs probably represent about 10 people maybe 15 at most.

i disagree with everything he said in his video.

The video has 294 likes and nearly as many comments saying they agree mostly. I do not know hobo nor do I even play on the same platform as him.