PUG questions -- From a Templar Tank

Kuwhar

Hi all, i had a few questions from the perspective of a tank in PUGs and i'm looking for a little consensus. Note: I am a Templar.

I've noticed that "tanking" seems pretty pointless in the parts of dungeons where there is no boss type mob. Everyone just charges into groups and spams away, trying to kill everything asap.

With that in mind i'm wondering:

1. Should I not worry about taunting in these groups of non-boss mobs? Most things are dying so quickly that i can't even get taunt landed on everything anyway.

2. If i were to put on my back-up bar say, a 2hander and just help by trying to kill everything with some AoE and cleaves, is that ok? Would you have an issue with the tank doing that in your PUG?

3. Should i toss inner fire (undaunted taunt) on my 2h bar? Just for the random chance i do need it?

I really don't want to DPS but it seems like it makes more sense to contribute in that way rather than trying to taunt squishy mobs that don't last long at all.

Thanks for any input.

VaranisArano

1. On mobs, you only need to taunt hard hitting mobs. Usually 2handed mobs and miniboss types. Anything else, like you said, is a waste of time.

2. What you should do is crowd control first and then DPS. Taunt the hard hitting adds and crowd control the rest so its easier for the DPS to,mow them down in a tight area. If those work out well, sure, swap to DPS. Crowd control works best if the DDs are patient enough to let the tank pull mobs, so if they aren't letting you do your job or rushing ahead, you might as well do what you want. AOE, cleaves, rock on.

3. I love Inner Fire for ranged taunting, especially on minibosses (falkreath minotaurs tend to charge right before my melee taunt) but its entirely up to you. I keep it for when its useful, but mostly rely on Pierce Armor.

4. You do want to be to do some DPS because there are a few fights where the boss is untauntable and you become a 3rd DD.I don't do much extra DPS, but I do switch to a more dps-oriented rotation for those fights.

purple-magicb16_ESO

Kuwhar wrote: »

Hi all, i had a few questions from the perspective of a tank in PUGs and i'm looking for a little consensus.

I've noticed that "tanking" seems pretty pointless in the parts of dungeons where there is no boss type mob. Everyone just charges into groups and spams away, trying to kill everything asap.

With that in mind i'm wondering:

1. Should I not worry about taunting in these groups of non-boss mobs? Most things are dying so quickly that i can't even get taunt landed on everything anyway.

2. If i were to put on my back-up bar say, a 2hander and just help by trying to kill everything with some AoE and cleaves, is that ok? Would you have an issue with the tank doing that in your PUG?

3. Should i toss inner fire (undaunted taunt) on my 2h bar? Just for the random chance i do need it?

I really don't want to DPS but it seems like it makes more sense to contribute in that way rather than trying to taunt squishy mobs that don't last long at all.

Thanks for any input.

I use my secondary set for sustain & passive dps. I also use Infernal Guardian monster set for passive attacks. This would eliminate the need for #2. That way I don't feel so useless in the situations you describe. Taunts won't even be noticed in these situations. I use taunts for bosses. I use pierce armor but you could use distance taunts like inner fire or fiery grip morphs. As always use cc for support - I use choking talons.

Sry scratch the dk skills then. Didn't realize you were templar.

Dymence

As for trash, you can focus on chaining mobs in to make a nice stack so they are a lot easier to clear up for the DDs.

jaschacasadiob16_ESO

Kuwhar wrote: »

1. Should I not worry about taunting in these groups of non-boss mobs? Most things are dying so quickly that i can't even get taunt landed on everything anyway.

2. If i were to put on my back-up bar say, a 2hander and just help by trying to kill everything with some AoE and cleaves, is that ok? Would you have an issue with the tank doing that in your PUG?

3. Should i toss inner fire (undaunted taunt) on my 2h bar? Just for the random chance i do need it?

1. As a tank you should tank only what needs to be tanked. The colossal skeletons in City of Ash 2 need to be tanked. Random trash should not since it should get killed pretty fast. If it is not or if people's health goes down too quickly, that suggests that 1. DPS is very low for that content and/or 2. there is no/proper healing.

2. Rather than doing something you are not good at (DPS), empower your Team by buffing them and/or debuffing mobs. That's the best thing you can do to support their job. That is your job actually.

3. You should always have both melee and ranged taunts slotted. There are plenty of occasions when you need to pull a bad guy from the distance.

Kuwhar

I should clarify: I am a Templar and what i've been doing is on my back-up i cast solar barrage (for AoE damage), low slash, and puncturing strikes while keeping sword and shield.

Would a switch to 2hand be more beneficial? Or will the gains in damage be minimal?

ssorgatem

My backbar is mostly for trash mobs:

• Chains, to pull them all together
• Talons, to CC them all + some AoE DPS
• Inner fire to taunt any straggler, hard-hitter or miniboss
• Elemental Blockade (if using Ice Staff) or Eruption for further CC and some AoE DPS
• Balance, for sustain.

Kuwhar

2. Rather than doing something you are not good at (DPS), empower your Team by buffing them and/or debuffing mobs. That's the best thing you can do to support their job. That is your job actually.

What sort of things can i do in that regard as a templar?

Maybe spam reflective light? Little DoT plus a snare....

Ty all for suggestions, though a lot seem to be for DK's lol.

MaleAmazon

The above answers are really good. I´d just like to add some:

1. Should I not worry about taunting in these groups of non-boss mobs? Most things are dying so quickly that i can't even get taunt landed on everything anyway.

Only a few enemies can use a 'come hither' taunt. Case in point, the Dreadhorn minotaurs in Falkreath.

2. If i were to put on my back-up bar say, a 2hander and just help by trying to kill everything with some AoE and cleaves, is that ok? Would you have an issue with the tank doing that in your PUG?

I tank PUGs with Maelstrom SnB on my backbar and DW on my frontbar, with medium armor (fortified brass when I tank). Makes it easy to switch out from my normal DPS setup. I have never really had any problems, and the only things I haven´t tried tanking are trials and vet DLC from HotR and on. It is more than ok, it´s IMO what you SHOULD do, unless it is a DLC vet dungeon or trial.

Some people have issues and I´ve had people question my HP (less than 30k), but that is just worry which is justified since there are many faketanks.

3. Should i toss inner fire (undaunted taunt) on my 2h bar? Just for the random chance i do need it?

If you want to keep tanking tough stuff you might as well learn to use it, it´s useful to have a ranged taount and some special techniques depend on it. I should take that advice myself

I really don't want to DPS but it seems like it makes more sense to contribute in that way rather than trying to taunt squishy mobs that don't last long at all.

You really do want to DPS. Or support, but I guess that seems more important in a 12-man trial and I assume you didn´t ask about those. There is the Planar Inhibitor in WGT, and in general if you want to be a good tank you need to not block all the time. Learn the boss mechanics and attack patterns, usually after they use a heavy attack you have a time window to use heavy attacks and DPS skills to help out and regain stamina.

VaranisArano

Kuwhar wrote: »

I should clarify: I am a Templar and what i've been doing is on my back-up i cast solar barrage (for AoE damage), low slash, and puncturing strikes while keeping sword and shield.

Would a switch to 2hand be more beneficial? Or will the gains in damage be minimal?

If you need more AOE and an execute, a 2hander will help. In harder content, you may not get to use it much.

If you have the stam for it, I might recommend Caltrops, as a good crowd control and AOE/DOT skill.

BejaProphet

You have a lot to do in trash fights. You have more tanking work to do in a trash fight than you do in a boss fight.

In a trash fight your job is to set the creatures up for an easy kill, while protecting them from key threats.

1. Make sure any creature with the potential to one shot the DPS is taunted, there could be anywhere from 0 to 3 of these depending on where you are. Usually its 1 or 2.

2. Hit the biggest cluster of them you can with some kind of opening AOE, to try to encourage the biggest bulk to immediately target you, the goal of this AOE is not so that you can do any serious damage, its so that as many as will do so, rushes to you, creating a cluster of creatures that can be targeted by the teams AOE's.

3. Try to get stragglers into the cluster. DK's have always had a huge advantage here with chains. But now with summerset all classes will have this with a fighter's guild skill. Also this will sometimes mean walking a few melee on you over to where the ranged is standing.

In all of this, your goal is to get the fight into one CENTRALIZED CLUSTER, and this way everything is getting AOE/Cleaved into oblivion. That will facilitate your group DPS more than anything you can do. And that is much more work than in boss fights.

Now yes, if you can buff DPS further by buffing team mates, debuffing mobs, adding dos, etc. Do that. But what I just described will help your team more than anything if you must choose.

EDIT NOTE: Almost forgot, get them in the cluster, then hold that cluster STILL. Lots of DPS is ground placement based. Meaning the fight should not be moving more than absolutely mandated by the fight mechanics.

Dymence

Since you are not a DK, you can use one of the Silver bolts morphs from Fighters Guild to chain now.

MaleAmazon

As a templar tank you might want to use Nova to debuff things and backlash to add DPS.

Dapper Dinosaur

As a templar tank, if you want to help with dps, the only thing you should be doing outside of normal tank skills is whatever the sunbeam that copies a capped amount of damage is called.