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BG Queues

  • Mihael
    Mihael
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    idk if win rate has to do with it ive won most of my death matches on my mag sorc and hes was ranked 20 or something on the leaderboard and I always get fast ques even with 1 or 2 more people in my group

    I have qued with 8 diff characters to do the daily and none have experienced problems that a quick re que or group leader change wont fix, so I think it just might be player related.
  • Thogard
    Thogard
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    ✭✭✭✭
    Mihael wrote: »
    idk if win rate has to do with it ive won most of my death matches on my mag sorc and hes was ranked 20 or something on the leaderboard and I always get fast ques even with 1 or 2 more people in my group

    I have qued with 8 diff characters to do the daily and none have experienced problems that a quick re que or group leader change wont fix, so I think it just might be player related.

    How many games total have you played on your mag sorc?

    I see you in the BGs a lot but it always seems like you’re on a different toon.

    Is there one character you’ve played more BGs on than the others?
    PC NA - Thogard / Sir Thogalot / Thoggy Boi jr / Thogaine / El Thogardo

    twitch.tv/ThogardPvP
  • Mihael
    Mihael
    ✭✭✭✭
    Thogard wrote: »
    Mihael wrote: »
    idk if win rate has to do with it ive won most of my death matches on my mag sorc and hes was ranked 20 or something on the leaderboard and I always get fast ques even with 1 or 2 more people in my group

    I have qued with 8 diff characters to do the daily and none have experienced problems that a quick re que or group leader change wont fix, so I think it just might be player related.

    How many games total have you played on your mag sorc?

    I see you in the BGs a lot but it always seems like you’re on a different toon.

    Is there one character you’ve played more BGs on than the others?

    Yeah I’ve always ranked on my Templar and nb and haven’t experienced problems,

    Also wouldn’t they reset your ranking st some point? I doubt they have kept your same ranking since release
  • Thogard
    Thogard
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    ✭✭✭✭
    Mihael wrote: »
    Thogard wrote: »
    Mihael wrote: »
    idk if win rate has to do with it ive won most of my death matches on my mag sorc and hes was ranked 20 or something on the leaderboard and I always get fast ques even with 1 or 2 more people in my group

    I have qued with 8 diff characters to do the daily and none have experienced problems that a quick re que or group leader change wont fix, so I think it just might be player related.

    How many games total have you played on your mag sorc?

    I see you in the BGs a lot but it always seems like you’re on a different toon.

    Is there one character you’ve played more BGs on than the others?

    Yeah I’ve always ranked on my Templar and nb and haven’t experienced problems,

    Also wouldn’t they reset your ranking st some point? I doubt they have kept your same ranking since release

    I’ll find out this afternoon
    PC NA - Thogard / Sir Thogalot / Thoggy Boi jr / Thogaine / El Thogardo

    twitch.tv/ThogardPvP
  • del9
    del9
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    Echoing my experience of long q times. Aside from a few outlying short qs on my mains, i’ve soent upwards of 20 minutes in most qs.

    Supporting the posts that say there is a character based mmr value - it def doesn’t seem accountwide but even when solo Qing I’m almost always matched with other BG regulars.

    Will be taking a break from BGs as my main pvp until this gets sorted. (And the proc wave cools off)
    PCNA

  • wheem_ESO
    wheem_ESO
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    Mihael wrote: »
    Thogard wrote: »
    Mihael wrote: »
    idk if win rate has to do with it ive won most of my death matches on my mag sorc and hes was ranked 20 or something on the leaderboard and I always get fast ques even with 1 or 2 more people in my group

    I have qued with 8 diff characters to do the daily and none have experienced problems that a quick re que or group leader change wont fix, so I think it just might be player related.

    How many games total have you played on your mag sorc?

    I see you in the BGs a lot but it always seems like you’re on a different toon.

    Is there one character you’ve played more BGs on than the others?

    Yeah I’ve always ranked on my Templar and nb and haven’t experienced problems,

    Also wouldn’t they reset your ranking st some point? I doubt they have kept your same ranking since release
    Leaderboard rank and MMR aren't the same thing. The only thing we know for sure about the MMR is that it's hidden from player view - everything else is just guessing.

    It could be that MMR is actually account wide, and that there's some bug that's plaguing only some characters (a person in another thread made it sound as though they queued up for BGs for the first time ever, and couldn't get into a game). If it's not a bug in the queue system, my best guess is that MMR is probably based mostly on win rate. When one looks at the totality of ZOS' Battleground designs (game types, medals, leaderboards, etc...), I find it unlikely that damage, healing, killing blows, assists, or deaths really count for very much, if anything. Beyond simply winning or losing, I suppose that one's personal score in the match may be taken into account, but I doubt that it's some super complex system that tries to track every single player's in-combat "performance" for purposes of MMR.

    If I'm right, it means that repeatedly stomping pugs in a premade has probably caused some people to have a really high MMR. And if I'm wrong, and the game does track things like damage, kills, assists, etc...then pug stomping will cause one's MMR to be even higher. There are plenty of good players that'll frequently get very high damage numbers while solo queueing, until they come up against a premade (or two), and end up with stats that look like a new player that's sitting at CP 47. There's only so much you can do when you get focus fired by coordinated burst from teams with dedicated healing (and backup heals with Resto Ult, stacked up Vigors, etc...)
  • HeathenDeacon
    HeathenDeacon
    ✭✭✭
    Aurielle wrote: »
    This is worrying. :( I guess I will try to enjoy my 5-10 second solo queues for as long as I can before Summerset drops on console.

    seriously reconsidering whether i should be getting back into the game right now. Was planning on preordreing cummerset and reupping eso+ until these reports...
  • Mihael
    Mihael
    ✭✭✭✭
    wheem_ESO wrote: »
    Mihael wrote: »
    Thogard wrote: »
    Mihael wrote: »
    idk if win rate has to do with it ive won most of my death matches on my mag sorc and hes was ranked 20 or something on the leaderboard and I always get fast ques even with 1 or 2 more people in my group

    I have qued with 8 diff characters to do the daily and none have experienced problems that a quick re que or group leader change wont fix, so I think it just might be player related.

    How many games total have you played on your mag sorc?

    I see you in the BGs a lot but it always seems like you’re on a different toon.

    Is there one character you’ve played more BGs on than the others?

    Yeah I’ve always ranked on my Templar and nb and haven’t experienced problems,

    Also wouldn’t they reset your ranking st some point? I doubt they have kept your same ranking since release
    Leaderboard rank and MMR aren't the same thing. The only thing we know for sure about the MMR is that it's hidden from player view - everything else is just guessing.

    It could be that MMR is actually account wide, and that there's some bug that's plaguing only some characters (a person in another thread made it sound as though they queued up for BGs for the first time ever, and couldn't get into a game). If it's not a bug in the queue system, my best guess is that MMR is probably based mostly on win rate. When one looks at the totality of ZOS' Battleground designs (game types, medals, leaderboards, etc...), I find it unlikely that damage, healing, killing blows, assists, or deaths really count for very much, if anything. Beyond simply winning or losing, I suppose that one's personal score in the match may be taken into account, but I doubt that it's some super complex system that tries to track every single player's in-combat "performance" for purposes of MMR.

    If I'm right, it means that repeatedly stomping pugs in a premade has probably caused some people to have a really high MMR. And if I'm wrong, and the game does track things like damage, kills, assists, etc...then pug stomping will cause one's MMR to be even higher. There are plenty of good players that'll frequently get very high damage numbers while solo queueing, until they come up against a premade (or two), and end up with stats that look like a new player that's sitting at CP 47. There's only so much you can do when you get focus fired by coordinated burst from teams with dedicated healing (and backup heals with Resto Ult, stacked up Vigors, etc...)
    I doubt it’s account wide or I would be having a problem also since I only do bgs and win most matches unless against a premade , I suggested that mmr be reset every now and then because I think it would be too much for them to track all your games that you have ever played
  • damarky
    damarky
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    @ZOS_RichLambert, @ZOS_BrianWheeler, @ZOS_GinaBruno,
    @ZOS_RichLambert, @ZOS_BrianWheeler, @ZOS_GinaBruno,

    There is important issues concerning BGs to adress since summerset came out:

    1) Group Queues
    I'm a BG regular on PC EU, I talk to other BG regulars - since yesterday every single group I talk to has given up on queuing together. The waiting time since patch is absurd, ranging from 20 min+ (NEVER before the 20 min mark) up to 2 hours - and I am talking EU primetime here from CET afternoon to midnight. It doesnt matter wether queued for random or specific BG, same result.

    You can rewatch twitch.tv/diplonicus latest vid from yesterday evening to get an impression for how frustrating the wait in groups is. Ironically, when talking to other BG regulars, we already speak about the last patch before summerset like its lost paradise - can't get quick games anymore, can't get group matches anymore.

    2) Solo Queues
    The new matchmaking is severaly diadvantaging high mmr players. To my experience players with hundreds or thousands of matches played in combination with high win % (75%+) and high avg scores/match will have the same endless waiting experience when solo queuing like described in the paragraphs above for group queuing. This does not hit everyone equally, some players will still get their instant or 5min queue invites.

    I personally spent the entire afternoon & evening yesterday trying to solo queue, there is some observations I made:
    I will never get an invite before the 19min mark. Never. The 19min mark will trigger an invite within the next 5 minutes most of the times. I tried all queues (random, specific single mode activated, specific 2 modes activated, specific all), no difference in waiting time. If needed, I can provide several screenshots of me waiting solo for queue invite with 20min+ passed.

    My conclusion is that the system increases its mmr range for creating a lobby when looking for players based on a timer. The highest mmr bracket players will be prevented from joining any game until that timer has reached a mark where that player's mmr range gets artificially lowered so he gets considered for lower brackets and thereforee more games.

    With matches averaging between 5-10 min, playtime this means I have to at least spend double the time waiting than playing (best case scenario). That's not acceptable, its not fun, its not well made (since you are unable to do any meaningful filler activities while queuing).

    3) Proposal
    My proposal would be to revert the changes you made with summerset to the individual mmr bracketing timers while queued. You must have increased them significantly to achieve such absurd waiting times. You have already spiced the BG experience up by giving us more choice what to queue for.

    4)Final words
    You and we know that all changes to the BG qeueing system go untested through the PTS, because the low population doesnt allow for much evaluation. That means it is your responsibility to closely monitor the effects of it when going live and act in timely manner. A feedback on our concerns and how you are going to handle this is not only appreciated but much needed.

    We are customers, but we are also working people with schedules and limited sparetime. We honor your work with our financial support and time investment, show some responsibility by making sure our time spent is rewarding & fun, not frustrating.

    Best regards

    What Mojomonkeyman says sounds about right a bunch of NA players were talking about high mmr players and it seems the higher your MMR the worst the queue is for you. So ZOS you are rewarding the BG players that play the most and have good MMR by making us wait around longer than new players.? WTF my MMR is just under 70% and i have quueed for around 40 hours getting about 9 games now. Come on now fix this *** or take Mojomonkeyman advice its getting beyond a joke now.

    FIX IT PLEASE

    Do as the man says we got enough changes with being about to queue what we want. But in my experience i was only getting queues in the Random Battleground queue

    3) Proposal
    My proposal would be to revert the changes you made with summerset to the individual mmr bracketing timers while queued. You must have increased them significantly to achieve such absurd waiting times. You have already spiced the BG experience up by giving us more choice what to queue for.
  • Thogard
    Thogard
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    damarky wrote: »
    @ZOS_RichLambert, @ZOS_BrianWheeler, @ZOS_GinaBruno,
    @ZOS_RichLambert, @ZOS_BrianWheeler, @ZOS_GinaBruno,

    There is important issues concerning BGs to adress since summerset came out:

    1) Group Queues
    I'm a BG regular on PC EU, I talk to other BG regulars - since yesterday every single group I talk to has given up on queuing together. The waiting time since patch is absurd, ranging from 20 min+ (NEVER before the 20 min mark) up to 2 hours - and I am talking EU primetime here from CET afternoon to midnight. It doesnt matter wether queued for random or specific BG, same result.

    You can rewatch twitch.tv/diplonicus latest vid from yesterday evening to get an impression for how frustrating the wait in groups is. Ironically, when talking to other BG regulars, we already speak about the last patch before summerset like its lost paradise - can't get quick games anymore, can't get group matches anymore.

    2) Solo Queues
    The new matchmaking is severaly diadvantaging high mmr players. To my experience players with hundreds or thousands of matches played in combination with high win % (75%+) and high avg scores/match will have the same endless waiting experience when solo queuing like described in the paragraphs above for group queuing. This does not hit everyone equally, some players will still get their instant or 5min queue invites.

    I personally spent the entire afternoon & evening yesterday trying to solo queue, there is some observations I made:
    I will never get an invite before the 19min mark. Never. The 19min mark will trigger an invite within the next 5 minutes most of the times. I tried all queues (random, specific single mode activated, specific 2 modes activated, specific all), no difference in waiting time. If needed, I can provide several screenshots of me waiting solo for queue invite with 20min+ passed.

    My conclusion is that the system increases its mmr range for creating a lobby when looking for players based on a timer. The highest mmr bracket players will be prevented from joining any game until that timer has reached a mark where that player's mmr range gets artificially lowered so he gets considered for lower brackets and thereforee more games.

    With matches averaging between 5-10 min, playtime this means I have to at least spend double the time waiting than playing (best case scenario). That's not acceptable, its not fun, its not well made (since you are unable to do any meaningful filler activities while queuing).

    3) Proposal
    My proposal would be to revert the changes you made with summerset to the individual mmr bracketing timers while queued. You must have increased them significantly to achieve such absurd waiting times. You have already spiced the BG experience up by giving us more choice what to queue for.

    4)Final words
    You and we know that all changes to the BG qeueing system go untested through the PTS, because the low population doesnt allow for much evaluation. That means it is your responsibility to closely monitor the effects of it when going live and act in timely manner. A feedback on our concerns and how you are going to handle this is not only appreciated but much needed.

    We are customers, but we are also working people with schedules and limited sparetime. We honor your work with our financial support and time investment, show some responsibility by making sure our time spent is rewarding & fun, not frustrating.

    Best regards

    What Mojomonkeyman says sounds about right a bunch of NA players were talking about high mmr players and it seems the higher your MMR the worst the queue is for you. So ZOS you are rewarding the BG players that play the most and have good MMR by making us wait around longer than new players.? WTF my MMR is just under 70% and i have quueed for around 40 hours getting about 9 games now. Come on now fix this *** or take Mojomonkeyman advice its getting beyond a joke now.

    FIX IT PLEASE

    Do as the man says we got enough changes with being about to queue what we want. But in my experience i was only getting queues in the Random Battleground queue

    3) Proposal
    My proposal would be to revert the changes you made with summerset to the individual mmr bracketing timers while queued. You must have increased them significantly to achieve such absurd waiting times. You have already spiced the BG experience up by giving us more choice what to queue for.

    It has crossed my mind that this is all a giant conspiracy to get the people who would just absolutely murder all the newcomers to stop queueing.

    The people who are the most affected by this are the people who generate the most whine / complaint / "that's why i don't play BGs" lol. (they're also my friends <3)

    and then there's poor little innocent thogard over here minding my own business, getting caught up in this too.

    They let me into an actual solo queue deathmatch today. i think it was by accident. i was solo queued and up against a bunch of other solo queuers in a deathmatch.

    It was like anakin skywalker let loose on the younglings.
    Edited by Thogard on May 25, 2018 1:56AM
    PC NA - Thogard / Sir Thogalot / Thoggy Boi jr / Thogaine / El Thogardo

    twitch.tv/ThogardPvP
  • Galalin
    Galalin
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    So after reading this i logged on my NB that has never seen a BG. Solo queued and pop insta queue. Logged back to my main... 1 BG last night in a couple days.

    I spend alot of my time in BG's recently... or used to before the patch, it was what kept me interested in the game. I am still trying but patience is dwindling as are alot of others i have spoke to that regular BG's. Punishing the ppl who actually play the BG's alot makes 0 sense.

    BG's in my mind have been implemented for small man competitive play as an alternative to the zergfest in Cyro where new players can hide and hone skills in a zerg untill progressing to so smaller scale more competitive play.

    If MMR is responsible it was absolutely wrong of ZoS to use this as a solution. If you solo queue MMR should not even be a factor in the queue time to join a game, I can see it used to distribute players evenly among the teams but thats it.

    If your going to use it for group matchmaking it needs to be hellish toned down. From what i have heard this has helped nothing in terms of being matched against premades when queing solo. So all you have managed to do is *** off the ppl who actually play it.

    ZoS all you are doing here is screwing over the people that play BG's most. And for those who have no issue with queue's and eventually get better this will be your problem next so this affects everyone who plays BG's. I mean who the hell had the bright idea to punish your most active customers.

    I will not resub until this is fixed.
    DK SCRUB OUT
  • Solariken
    Solariken
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    Ok more anecdotal evidence - logged onto my stamblade tonight to test and got an instant queue pop - and let me tell you, it was some glorious barrel fishing.

    I was shredding except for a *** MagSorc that had me legit raging with that nightmare Rune Cage combo. XD
  • exeeter702
    exeeter702
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    INB4 zos releases a statement claiming its just a natural issue that will sort itself out when more players player more games so the marchmaking pools stabilize.

    Lol... seriously though, this was unfortunately not surprising at all.

    Again there simply isnt enough of a dedicated player base participating in bgs to tier off the matchmaking in this way. And the "everyone is playing summerset content right now" is frankly a *** ass weak argument.

    They should have left matchmaking identical to what it was prior, and then monitor the increase or lackthereof of new players since moving bgs to base game then and ONLY then when you can confirm a larger influx in participation, you release an updated mmr matchamking system.

    I dont personally believe there is a substantial amount of new players, and most new players will likely be pre lvl50 anyways. Most players with a vested interest in pvp already have had access to bgs.
    Edited by exeeter702 on May 25, 2018 8:34AM
  • Aerius_Sygale
    Aerius_Sygale
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    Come the frig on ZOS, own up to your *** and give us some good news. Would rather it NEVER have to be that bad on consoles, but now that is only 10 days away from happening. I was really getting into BGs, too...on my respective platform of PS4, NA...very frustrating. Can only hope for an eventual long term fair queueing...experience, for getting into Battlegrounds...
    PS4, NA
    PSN: CrimsonWolf_64
    CP: 1710+, but doesn't matter long term probably. Shafted again... *sigh*
  • Grimlok_S
    Grimlok_S
    ✭✭✭✭
    Thogard wrote: »
    My solo queue is at least 30 min long, sometimes longer.

    When it does pop i get thrown in as the fourth person on a 3 man premade, fighting two other premades.

    Not fun for me.

    My MMR / ELO / whatever is too high on my stamden. They need to change the weightings for those of us who have a lot of time played in BGs.

    It used to be that we'd just make whoever is the newest character queue us, but now just having me on my main in a group dooms that group to really really long queue times. It's ridiculous.

    edit: the people who are complaining about this the most are the people who do the most BGs.

    Exactly this. Had no solo queue shorter than 15 minutes last night. Whenever I joined a match I was dumped into existing fights between coordinated premades, always several minutes into their match.

    Very frustrating.
    Light Attack Hero

    Class context
    Stamplar
    StamDK
    MagDK
    StamMAGden
    Magplar
    Stamsorc
    Bow NB
    Bomb NB
  • Grimlok_S
    Grimlok_S
    ✭✭✭✭
    I have a sneaking suspicion its not an MMR at all, but a ranking of either games played or kills earned over the life of the character to separate the experienced from the new recruits. Similar to Alliance Rank, but unpublished.

    Which would explain why we regulars are only running into one another, including being pitted against premades as solo queuers.

    Summerset was supposed to fix soloing into premades.. A pain point for many of us.
    Light Attack Hero

    Class context
    Stamplar
    StamDK
    MagDK
    StamMAGden
    Magplar
    Stamsorc
    Bow NB
    Bomb NB
  • brandonv516
    brandonv516
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    ✭✭
    It would have been cool if they could have just wiped all BGs player history before adding the patch. Like everyone starts at zero and go from there.
  • wheem_ESO
    wheem_ESO
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    I had a game last night at around 8pm Central time, where my team (solo queue'd) never went beyond 3 players, despite it being a really long Crazy King. That seems a bit odd for a Saturday night at prime time, with plenty of people queue'ing BGs. There are also quite a few games where a team may "eventually" get to 4 players, but not until a match is nearly over. Combined with the post someone made the other day, saying that they had ~20 minute queue times even though they hadn't been running BGs before, makes me think that there are some bugs in the matchmaking system.
  • Fake Remedy
    Fake Remedy
    ✭✭✭
    Grimlok_S wrote: »
    I have a sneaking suspicion its not an MMR at all, but a ranking of either games played or kills earned over the life of the character to separate the experienced from the new recruits. Similar to Alliance Rank, but unpublished.

    Which would explain why we regulars are only running into one another, including being pitted against premades as solo queuers.

    Summerset was supposed to fix soloing into premades.. A pain point for many of us.

    Cant be kills. I'm a healbot and have queued solo the last few days. My queue is still 15-20 minutes on average.

    Might not even be games played. Watched two EU streamers last night get almost insta pops for battleground games. One was 2nd on the leaderboard...

    p.s Typing this while currently in a 10 minute + queue for random daily battleground.

    edit. zos forum quote bug
    Edited by Fake Remedy on May 29, 2018 11:46AM
    away from eso until they add ranked deathmatch bgs
    [EU PC] @fake_remedy
    Discord: fake_remedy#3254
    Twitch
    YouTube
  • dragonknightjohn
    dragonknightjohn
    Soul Shriven
    Well consider the patch just came out and taking part in a bg is open to anybody, 30+ minutes after queueing just to be put in an unequal environment with either people missing or having to compete against players unsimilar to you is definitely not intended
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