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Medium armor passives
ll_Rev
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The sneak passive should be moved to legerdemain, It only favors one class and isn’t useful in combat or end game at all. It could be replaced by anything else really doesn’t have to be huge. Medium is outclassed by light armor users in PvE(surviveability) and by heavy users in PvP(with many heavy sets providing huge amounts of damage)
Edited by ll_Rev on May 22, 2018 4:09PM 8
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VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I dunno, I enjoy having that sneak passive on my medium armor wearing stam warden in Cyrodiil. There's already a speed passive (plus skills/gear/perk for speed).
And no, I don't think it makes sense that my heavy armor tank should be harder to detect while sneaking through legerdemain just because that character has unlocked a bunch more chests.Edited by VaranisArano on May 21, 2018 4:15PM3 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭we nightblades need that sneak passive, please stop trying to remove our sneak and our invisibility and our survival.2 -
BlackLabel✭✭✭I completely agree. Give us something useful and then adjust nightblades a bit to make them not benefit more from the buff. They are already over performing as is.2 -
Avalon✭✭✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »we nightblades need that sneak passive, please stop trying to remove our sneak and our invisibility and our survival.
Yeah, please leave our (not just NBs) sneak alone! Bad enough they are messing with the invisibility abilities, leave sneak alone!3 -
ll_Rev✭✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »we nightblades need that sneak passive, please stop trying to remove our sneak and our invisibility and our survival.
Do you not realize there are 4 other Stam classes Out there and not everything revolves around nightblades?
Edited by ll_Rev on May 21, 2018 5:33PM3 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »we nightblades need that sneak passive, please stop trying to remove our sneak and our invisibility and our survival.
Do you not realize there are 4 other Stam classes Out there and not everything revolves around nightblades?
Yes. My medium armor wearing Stam Warden and Stam Sorc also benefit from that sneak passive, thanks very much. So will my medium armor wearing Stam Dragonknight if I ever level her up and take her out into Cyrodiil.
Its not just nightblades that benefit from sneaking medium armor passive, though it certainly synergizes well with their skills.2 -
ll_Rev✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »we nightblades need that sneak passive, please stop trying to remove our sneak and our invisibility and our survival.
Do you not realize there are 4 other Stam classes Out there and not everything revolves around nightblades?
Yes. My medium armor wearing Stam Warden and Stam Sorc also benefit from that sneak passive, thanks very much. So will my medium armor wearing Stam Dragonknight if I ever level her up and take her out into Cyrodiil.
Its not just nightblades that benefit from sneaking medium armor passive, though it certainly synergizes well with their skills.
That’s why your passives would be put in the legerdemain skill line... besides the sneak passive are useless tell me how does it help besides delaying your death?Edited by ll_Rev on May 21, 2018 5:39PM0 -
ll_Rev✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »we nightblades need that sneak passive, please stop trying to remove our sneak and our invisibility and our survival.
Do you not realize there are 4 other Stam classes Out there and not everything revolves around nightblades?
Yes. My medium armor wearing Stam Warden and Stam Sorc also benefit from that sneak passive, thanks very much. So will my medium armor wearing Stam Dragonknight if I ever level her up and take her out into Cyrodiil.
Its not just nightblades that benefit from sneaking medium armor passive, though it certainly synergizes well with their skills.
That’s why your passive would be put in the legerdemain skill line... besides the sneak passive are useless tell how does it help besides delaying your death?
0 -
Merlin13KAGL✭✭✭✭✭
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IDK...how many enemies did you (not) see because they were out of your detection range as a result of this passive?VaranisArano wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »we nightblades need that sneak passive, please stop trying to remove our sneak and our invisibility and our survival.
Do you not realize there are 4 other Stam classes Out there and not everything revolves around nightblades?
Yes. My medium armor wearing Stam Warden and Stam Sorc also benefit from that sneak passive, thanks very much. So will my medium armor wearing Stam Dragonknight if I ever level her up and take her out into Cyrodiil.
Its not just nightblades that benefit from sneaking medium armor passive, though it certainly synergizes well with their skills.
That’s why your would be put in the legerdemain skill line... besides the sneak passive are useless tell me how does it help besides delaying your death?
I suspect if you ask them, it helps considerably.
Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...
Earn it.
IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS3 -
ll_Rev✭✭✭✭
You just proved my point. Also notice how only bad players like the sneak passives. No good players utilizes them...(unless they’re a nb) you’re also forgetting that I mentioned that they would still be there just in a different skill line.Merlin13KAGL wrote: »
IDK...how many enemies did you (not) see because they were out of your detection range as a result of this passive?VaranisArano wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »we nightblades need that sneak passive, please stop trying to remove our sneak and our invisibility and our survival.
Do you not realize there are 4 other Stam classes Out there and not everything revolves around nightblades?
Yes. My medium armor wearing Stam Warden and Stam Sorc also benefit from that sneak passive, thanks very much. So will my medium armor wearing Stam Dragonknight if I ever level her up and take her out into Cyrodiil.
Its not just nightblades that benefit from sneaking medium armor passive, though it certainly synergizes well with their skills.
That’s why your would be put in the legerdemain skill line... besides the sneak passive are useless tell me how does it help besides delaying your death?
I suspect if you ask them, it helps considerably.
Edited by ll_Rev on May 21, 2018 5:52PM1 -
Narvuntien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I know everyone wants penetration since its the big big advantage mag has over stam.
But I'd prefer it be different, I'd go with AoE damage reduction like deadly cloak. It makes sense that light armor has magic protection, heavy armor takes direct hits so medium armor should have the advantage against indirect hits.2 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »we nightblades need that sneak passive, please stop trying to remove our sneak and our invisibility and our survival.
Do you not realize there are 4 other Stam classes Out there and not everything revolves around nightblades?
Yes. My medium armor wearing Stam Warden and Stam Sorc also benefit from that sneak passive, thanks very much. So will my medium armor wearing Stam Dragonknight if I ever level her up and take her out into Cyrodiil.
Its not just nightblades that benefit from sneaking medium armor passive, though it certainly synergizes well with their skills.
That’s why your passives would be put in the legerdemain skill line... besides the sneak passive are useless tell me how does it help besides delaying your death?
That doesn't make sense. Because legerdemain gets raised from opening chests and laundering/fencing stolen items. Okay, it makes a little more sense if you assume that Legerdemain only gets raised from laundering/selling stolen items. My heavy armor tank has full legerdemain from opening chests, and doesn't sneak...except when they sneak in cyrodiil as a light armor healer.
Look, I get that you want a benefit to medium armor and you don't see a use for sneak. That's fair - sneak is useless in PVE combat, except perhaps for nightblades. However, Sneak is darned useful in Cyrodiil (before, during, and after combat) and in PVE questing.
Putting sneak in Medium armor makes players choose (part of the original Mage/Thief/Warrior archetypes). A heavy armor stam warden gets benefits from their heavy armor, but doesn't get the benefits from sneak that my medium-armor stam warden does (or the extra damage or the extra squishiness). If you move it to Legerdemain, you take away that drawback/benefit. You get to have your cake and eat it too. I don't think that's a wise change.
Also, do me a favor and leave off the "only bad players like the sneak passives" insults.
Edited to clarify a few things.Edited by VaranisArano on May 21, 2018 6:08PM2 -
ll_Rev✭✭✭✭
You just proved my point. Also notice how only bad players like the sneak passives. No good players utilized them...Merlin13KAGL wrote: »
IDK...how many enemies did you (not) see because they were out of your detection range as a result of this passive?VaranisArano wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »we nightblades need that sneak passive, please stop trying to remove our sneak and our invisibility and our survival.
Do you not realize there are 4 other Stam classes Out there and not everything revolves around nightblades?
Yes. My medium armor wearing Stam Warden and Stam Sorc also benefit from that sneak passive, thanks very much. So will my medium armor wearing Stam Dragonknight if I ever level her up and take her out into Cyrodiil.
Its not just nightblades that benefit from sneaking medium armor passive, though it certainly synergizes well with their skills.
That’s why your would be put in the legerdemain skill line... besides the sneak passive are useless tell me how does it help besides delaying your death?
I suspect if you ask them, it helps considerably.VaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »we nightblades need that sneak passive, please stop trying to remove our sneak and our invisibility and our survival.
Do you not realize there are 4 other Stam classes Out there and not everything revolves around nightblades?
Yes. My medium armor wearing Stam Warden and Stam Sorc also benefit from that sneak passive, thanks very much. So will my medium armor wearing Stam Dragonknight if I ever level her up and take her out into Cyrodiil.
Its not just nightblades that benefit from sneaking medium armor passive, though it certainly synergizes well with their skills.
That’s why your passives would be put in the legerdemain skill line... besides the sneak passive are useless tell me how does it help besides delaying your death?
That doesn't make sense. Because legerdemain gets raised from opening chests and laundering/fencing stolen items. Okay, it makes a little more sense if you assume that Legerdemain only gets raised from laundering/selling stolen items. My heavy armor tank has full legerdemain from opening chests, and doesn't sneak...except when they sneak in cyrodiil as a light armor healer.
Look, I get that you want a benefit to medium armor and you don't see a use for sneak. That's fair - sneak is useless in PVE content, except perhaps for nightblades. However, Sneak is darned useful in Cyrodiil (before, during, and after combat) and in PVE questing.
Putting sneak in Medium armor makes players choose. A heavy armor stam warden gets benefits from their heavy armor, but doesn't get the benefits from sneak that my medium-armor stam warden does (or the extra damage or the extra squishiness). If you move it to Legerdemain, you take away that drawback/benefit. You get to have your cake and eat it too. I don't think that's a wise change.
Also, do me a favor and leave off the "only bad players like the sneak passives" insults.
Yes and I’m perfectly fine with everyone getting it if it means medium gets a more useful passive that actually benefits in combat, and yes it’s mostly only bad players who think they’re useful.Edited by ll_Rev on May 21, 2018 6:09PM1 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
You just proved my point. Also notice how only bad players like the sneak passives. No good players utilized them...Merlin13KAGL wrote: »
IDK...how many enemies did you (not) see because they were out of your detection range as a result of this passive?VaranisArano wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »we nightblades need that sneak passive, please stop trying to remove our sneak and our invisibility and our survival.
Do you not realize there are 4 other Stam classes Out there and not everything revolves around nightblades?
Yes. My medium armor wearing Stam Warden and Stam Sorc also benefit from that sneak passive, thanks very much. So will my medium armor wearing Stam Dragonknight if I ever level her up and take her out into Cyrodiil.
Its not just nightblades that benefit from sneaking medium armor passive, though it certainly synergizes well with their skills.
That’s why your would be put in the legerdemain skill line... besides the sneak passive are useless tell me how does it help besides delaying your death?
I suspect if you ask them, it helps considerably.VaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »we nightblades need that sneak passive, please stop trying to remove our sneak and our invisibility and our survival.
Do you not realize there are 4 other Stam classes Out there and not everything revolves around nightblades?
Yes. My medium armor wearing Stam Warden and Stam Sorc also benefit from that sneak passive, thanks very much. So will my medium armor wearing Stam Dragonknight if I ever level her up and take her out into Cyrodiil.
Its not just nightblades that benefit from sneaking medium armor passive, though it certainly synergizes well with their skills.
That’s why your passives would be put in the legerdemain skill line... besides the sneak passive are useless tell me how does it help besides delaying your death?
That doesn't make sense. Because legerdemain gets raised from opening chests and laundering/fencing stolen items. Okay, it makes a little more sense if you assume that Legerdemain only gets raised from laundering/selling stolen items. My heavy armor tank has full legerdemain from opening chests, and doesn't sneak...except when they sneak in cyrodiil as a light armor healer.
Look, I get that you want a benefit to medium armor and you don't see a use for sneak. That's fair - sneak is useless in PVE content, except perhaps for nightblades. However, Sneak is darned useful in Cyrodiil (before, during, and after combat) and in PVE questing.
Putting sneak in Medium armor makes players choose. A heavy armor stam warden gets benefits from their heavy armor, but doesn't get the benefits from sneak that my medium-armor stam warden does (or the extra damage or the extra squishiness). If you move it to Legerdemain, you take away that drawback/benefit. You get to have your cake and eat it too. I don't think that's a wise change.
Also, do me a favor and leave off the "only bad players like the sneak passives" insults.
Yes and I’m perfectly fine with everyone getting it if it means medium gets a more useful passive that actually benefits in combat.
And I'm not fine with that, because I don't think a buff is needed, I think it makes sense as part of medium armor for both PVP and PVE, and I don't generally support "I want my cake and to eat it too" arguments because I think the current choice is balanced. Its a solid reason for people to choose squishier medium armor over having the survival+sneak in heavy armor in PVP like your suggestion would allow.
So we'll disagree. Not much more point to me discussing it anymore then.0 -
ADarklore✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So sneak is useless in PvE? Tell that to the devs who created Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood DLCs where sneak is a requirement to complete quests. It also makes sense to have passive in Medium armor since it is dependent upon how many pieces of armor you are wearing... and since Medium armor is geared towards assassins and thieves- not all of which are Nightblades- it fits.CP: 1965 ** ESO+ Gold Road ** ~~ Stamina Arcanist ~~ Magicka Warden ~~ Magicka Templar ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****3 -
Hamish999✭✭✭✭✭
✭No.
It is fine where it is.
It would be preposterous to be able to sneak in heavy armour. Do you have any clue how heavy, cumbersome and noisy that *** is?
If you don't, go to your local war/battle re-enactment group and put some on. Then tell me how sneaky you feel when you crouch and try to move.Edited by Hamish999 on May 21, 2018 6:19PMPC-EUDo'Zahra - Khajiit - StamDK - AD
Narese Telvanni - Dunmer - Petsorc - EP
Anastasie Chastain - Breton - Magplar - DC
Gashnakh the Lusty - Orc - Stamsorc - AD
Stands-In-Stoopid - Argonian - Warden Tank - AD
Talia al-Morwha - Redguard - Stamden - AD
Makes-Fier-Wrong - Argonian - Stamblade - AD
Busty-Argonian-Maid - Argonian - Templar Healer - AD
Alaru Telvanni - Dunmer - Stamplar - AD
Ko'Raehsi - Khajiit - Magsorc - AD
Torhild Rock-Chucker - Nord - StamDK - AD
Drusilla Larouche - Breton - MagDK - AD
Ko'Khanni - Khajiit - Magden - AD
Ilithyia Ectorius - Imperial - DK Tank -AD
Rosara Laumont - Breton - Warden Healer - AD
Do'Darri - Khajiit - Stam Arcanist - AD
Keyboard and mouse FTW!2 -
ll_Rev✭✭✭✭No.
It is fine where it is.
It would be preposterous to be able to sneak in heavy armour. Do you have any clue how heavy, cumbersome and noisy that *** is?
If you don't, go to your local war/battle re-enactment group and put some on. Then tell me how sneaky you feel when you crouch and try to move.
Ok and? No one is saying heavy users have to use the passive, If it was in legerdemainEdited by ll_Rev on May 21, 2018 6:22PM0 -
Merlin13KAGL✭✭✭✭✭
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Lol, did I now? So stealth and sneak have no uses in places like IC unless you're a bad player?
You just proved my point. Also notice how only bad players like the sneak passives. No good players utilizes them...(unless they’re a nb) you’re also forgetting that I mentioned that they would still be there just in a different skill line.Merlin13KAGL wrote: »
IDK...how many enemies did you (not) see because they were out of your detection range as a result of this passive?VaranisArano wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »we nightblades need that sneak passive, please stop trying to remove our sneak and our invisibility and our survival.
Do you not realize there are 4 other Stam classes Out there and not everything revolves around nightblades?
Yes. My medium armor wearing Stam Warden and Stam Sorc also benefit from that sneak passive, thanks very much. So will my medium armor wearing Stam Dragonknight if I ever level her up and take her out into Cyrodiil.
Its not just nightblades that benefit from sneaking medium armor passive, though it certainly synergizes well with their skills.
That’s why your would be put in the legerdemain skill line... besides the sneak passive are useless tell me how does it help besides delaying your death?
I suspect if you ask them, it helps considerably.
I'm guessing most people didn't get the memo. Why is it, I wonder, why you need another passive to boost then?
There is more purpose than your clearly limited vision allows. I notice you're fine with Athletics remaining in the armor line. Maybe we could move that one to Undaunted. And then there's the Khajiit passive? That one could get moved to the Mages Guild?
It's fine where it's at.
Don't think of it so much as a useless passive. Think of it as two skillpoints that can be placed elsewhere by a certified badass such as yourself.
If you really think the only players out there that are stealthing up are doing so for fear of dying to you, you're even more confused than I originally suspected.
Fixed it for you. See how easy it is to turn it the other way?Also notice how only bad players ask for new like the sneak passives. No good players utilizes needs them...
Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...
Earn it.
IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS1 -
MaleAmazon✭✭✭✭✭
✭It *is* a bit meh, since the usefulness of sneak is highly circumstantial. Yeah I´m biased, I prefer medium armor for everything XD0 -
The_Smilemeister✭✭✭✭✭The sneak passive should be moved to legerdemain, It only favors one class and isn’t useful in combat. It could be replaced by anything else really. Medium is already lackluster as is.
Gives us a biased bull**** statement that the passive only works for one class and incorrectly states it's useless in combat, then finishes with a half baked ending in which they want us to come up with a alternative passive because they're too lazy and ignorant to provide one themselves.
Great job.1 -
Amdar_Godkiller✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »we nightblades need that sneak passive, please stop trying to remove our sneak and our invisibility and our survival.
Do you not realize there are 4 other Stam classes Out there and not everything revolves around nightblades?
Yes. My medium armor wearing Stam Warden and Stam Sorc also benefit from that sneak passive, thanks very much. So will my medium armor wearing Stam Dragonknight if I ever level her up and take her out into Cyrodiil.
Its not just nightblades that benefit from sneaking medium armor passive, though it certainly synergizes well with their skills.
It's not necessary in medium armor. I've never invested a point in that worthless passive and I've also never run out of stamina from sneaking. Sneak cost is non-existent for all practical purposes on a medium armor build.
And even if you think its worthwhile, it could and should be much better.0 -
ll_Rev✭✭✭✭
“Great job” contributing with your rant that clearly has no value to this thread.The_Smilemeister wrote: »The sneak passive should be moved to legerdemain, It only favors one class and isn’t useful in combat. It could be replaced by anything else really. Medium is already lackluster as is.
Gives us a biased bull**** statement that the passive only works for one class and incorrectly states it's useless in combat, then finishes with a half baked ending in which they want us to come up with a alternative passive because they're too lazy and ignorant to provide one themselves.
Great job.
Edited by ll_Rev on May 22, 2018 4:07PM0 -
ll_Rev✭✭✭✭
Except the statement about good players not utilizing sneak passives is true... they don’t help in end game at all.Merlin13KAGL wrote: »
Lol, did I now? So stealth and sneak have no uses in places like IC unless you're a bad player?
You just proved my point. Also notice how only bad players like the sneak passives. No good players utilizes them...(unless they’re a nb) you’re also forgetting that I mentioned that they would still be there just in a different skill line.Merlin13KAGL wrote: »
IDK...how many enemies did you (not) see because they were out of your detection range as a result of this passive?VaranisArano wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »we nightblades need that sneak passive, please stop trying to remove our sneak and our invisibility and our survival.
Do you not realize there are 4 other Stam classes Out there and not everything revolves around nightblades?
Yes. My medium armor wearing Stam Warden and Stam Sorc also benefit from that sneak passive, thanks very much. So will my medium armor wearing Stam Dragonknight if I ever level her up and take her out into Cyrodiil.
Its not just nightblades that benefit from sneaking medium armor passive, though it certainly synergizes well with their skills.
That’s why your would be put in the legerdemain skill line... besides the sneak passive are useless tell me how does it help besides delaying your death?
I suspect if you ask them, it helps considerably.
I'm guessing most people didn't get the memo. Why is it, I wonder, why you need another passive to boost then?
There is more purpose than your clearly limited vision allows. I notice you're fine with Athletics remaining in the armor line. Maybe we could move that one to Undaunted. And then there's the Khajiit passive? That one could get moved to the Mages Guild?
It's fine where it's at.
Don't think of it so much as a useless passive. Think of it as two skillpoints that can be placed elsewhere by a certified badass such as yourself.
If you really think the only players out there that are stealthing up are doing so for fear of dying to you, you're even more confused than I originally suspected.
Fixed it for you. See how easy it is to turn it the other way?Also notice how only bad players ask for new like the sneak passives. No good players utilizes needs them...
Edited by ll_Rev on May 22, 2018 3:58PM0