With staves' only disadvantage being removed, need to make 1h easier to craft/loot/upgrade

krachall

Now that the only disadvantage staves had in the game is being removed, 1h weapons need to be made easier to craft, upgrade, and obtain.

- CP160 should take about half the materials that they do today. It currently costs 120 mats to make a CP160 staff but 200 to make a pair of daggers.
- Upgrading a 1h weapon should take 4 gold materials for 100% chance, not 8. It currently costs 8 expensive gold materials to upgrade a staff and 16 to upgrade a pair of 1h weapons.
- Transmuting a 1h weapon should take 25 crystals, not 50. You can transmute a staff for 50 but it takes 100 to transmute a pair of 1h weapons.
- The drop rate for 1h should be doubled or they should drop 2-at-a-time. It's twice as easy to loot a staff than it is a a pair of 1h weapons or 1h weapon + Shield.

Chilly-McFreeze

Inb4 „but you‘ve got a second enchantment“.

brandonv516

krachall wrote: »

Now that the only disadvantage staves had in the game is being removed, 1h weapons need to be made easier to craft, upgrade, and obtain.

- CP160 should take about half the materials that they do today. It currently costs 120 mats to make a CP160 staff but 200 to make a pair of daggers.
- Upgrading a 1h weapon should take 4 gold materials for 100% chance, not 8. It currently costs 8 expensive gold materials to upgrade a staff and 16 to upgrade a pair of 1h weapons.
- Transmuting a 1h weapon should take 25 crystals, not 50. You can transmute a staff for 50 but it takes 100 to transmute a pair of 1h weapons.
- The drop rate for 1h should be doubled or they should drop 2-at-a-time. It's twice as easy to loot a staff than it is a a pair of 1h weapons or 1h weapon + Shield.

The first 3 should be changed for sure.

For the last one we have to assume that all weapons currently have equal drop rates. I'm not sure if this is the case though (someone might be able to confirm).

That being said, vMA already does this now (you get s&b, 2 daggers, 2 axes, etc.) so I don't see the problem making this a universal rule.

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Inb4 „but you‘ve got a second enchantment“.

But double the materials and soul gems too!

pteam

Omg people will literally find anything to complain about

Avran_Sylt

Nah, DW and 1H&S still have advantages.

Shield can still have an additional armor enchantment for higher raw stats and more things such as Divines/Impen.

DW can mix and match enchantments, having up to 2, can build nirnhorned mainhand+something offhand.
(IE Nirn+Infused).

IF Nirnhorned gets nerfed on 1H weapons, and Enchantments have a greater potency on twohanded weapons, then I can see that happening.

Stewart1874

Why does one side winning automatically means the other side is losing? One handed doesn't need changes, its fine as is.

red_emu

Yes, sure. Because stamina characters don't have the OP burst, high mobility, snare removal and lightning speed. Sure. Us mag users can't have nice things for once or someone will scream nerf mag.

Pyr0xyrecuprotite

DW and 2H sword/Axe/Maul have one other advantage over staves - higher weapon damage. This affects spell damage done as well.

Savos_Saren

I'll specifically still run DW on some of my builds because I want the higher damage (DW swords + nirnhoned main hand) AND more penetration (off hand sword will be sharpened).

DW will still have its advantages!

AcadianPaladin

Counting a staff as two slots will indeed benefit staff users. Just as the same change will benefit 2H users. And bow users. That is, the change benefits both mag as well as stam users.

Taleof2Cities

pteam wrote: »

Omg people will literally find anything to complain about

^This.^

Mettaricana

Honestly always felt gold temps should be 5 tempers not 8 since fully upgraded crafter its 2 green 3 blue 4 purple 8 gold

XxCaLxX

I’m glad the 2h change finally happened as I spend the same amount of time on mag and stam dps. I do agree that the upgrade cost of 1h weapons should be slightly reduced. Maybe not in half but maybe to 6 temps or something. Idc either way really. I just wish every update didn’t change whether I’ll be using stam or mag dps more. It’s a long time issue but would balancing be so hard to do?

krachall

pteam wrote: »

Omg people will literally find anything to complain about

I know, right!

I mean, mag players already had the highest real-world DPS (targeting dummies don't matter) because the attack from range. And they already had the best defense. And they already had the easiest gameplay and the easiest soloability. They have it easiest in vMA and they STILL complained and got their staves to count as two items! Geesh...some people!!

Imryll

Hmm... an epic CP 160 ruby ash inferno staff does 1132 damage, and an epic 1-handed CP 160 rubedite sword does 1132 damage. How is the damage done by the second 1-hander you can carry not an "advantage?"

Chilly-McFreeze

Imryll wrote: »

Hmm... an epic CP 160 ruby ash inferno staff does 1132 damage, and an epic 1-handed CP 160 rubedite sword does 1132 damage. How is the damage done by the second 1-hander you can carry not an "advantage?"

And yet - who has the highest dps parses? Who got the most raid slots? Are it dw builds or someone with a stick?

BohnT

Savos_Saren wrote: »

I'll specifically still run DW on some of my builds because I want the higher damage (DW swords + nirnhoned main hand) AND more penetration (off hand sword will be sharpened).

DW will still have its advantages!

You know that DW gives you a lot less damage?
You deal 3% less single or AoE damage depending on your staff chosen and the weaves make up for the pitiful 1.3k penetration from sharpened + with ele drain you have access to major breach which is a debuff not many classes have access to while it also gives you 600 free magregen
There is no reason to ever use a non staff weapon on a magicka class on an offensive bar.

laksikus

BohnT wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

I'll specifically still run DW on some of my builds because I want the higher damage (DW swords + nirnhoned main hand) AND more penetration (off hand sword will be sharpened).

DW will still have its advantages!

You know that DW gives you a lot less damage?
You deal 3% less single or AoE damage depending on your staff chosen and the weaves make up for the pitiful 1.3k penetration from sharpened + with ele drain you have access to major breach which is a debuff not many classes have access to while it also gives you 600 free magregen
There is no reason to ever use a non staff weapon on a magicka class on an offensive bar.

Bomblades.


Dw still gives more raw dmg without looking at the trait. And you can split traits up like he said above.

BohnT

laksikus wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

I'll specifically still run DW on some of my builds because I want the higher damage (DW swords + nirnhoned main hand) AND more penetration (off hand sword will be sharpened).

DW will still have its advantages!

You know that DW gives you a lot less damage?
You deal 3% less single or AoE damage depending on your staff chosen and the weaves make up for the pitiful 1.3k penetration from sharpened + with ele drain you have access to major breach which is a debuff not many classes have access to while it also gives you 600 free magregen
There is no reason to ever use a non staff weapon on a magicka class on an offensive bar.

Bomblades.


Dw still gives more raw dmg without looking at the trait. And you can split traits up like he said above.

If you go for tether bomb a lightning staff still wins, splitting up traits won't substitute the damage loss of weaves in actual combat.

Banana

Stop talking crazy

Wolfenbelle

OP, you have overlooked two very important things. 2H weapons are still at a disadvantage because they don't actually use the second slot. They do not get the benefit of:

• The 5th trait on armor/jewelry sets.
• A second enchantment like 1H weapons do.
• An actual shield for defense or weapon for added damage.

Kikke

krachall wrote: »

pteam wrote: »

Omg people will literally find anything to complain about

I know, right!

I mean, mag players already had the highest real-world DPS (targeting dummies don't matter) because the attack from range. And they already had the best defense. And they already had the easiest gameplay and the easiest soloability. They have it easiest in vMA and they STILL complained and got their staves to count as two items! Geesh...some people!!

Not true. Any good trial guild will show you DPS of theire members. 4 stams at top, followed by 4 mags.

Just as dummys, Stams outpharse mags there aswell.

MaleAmazon

They do not get the benefit of:
The 5th trait on armor/jewelry sets.

Not sure exactly what you mean by this, but afaik thats exactly what they do, which was the reason for the change to begin with. If you mean the weapon trait itself afaik 2h have 2x the effect strength of the trait which make them the same as 1h in that regard.

Kikke

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Imryll wrote: »

Hmm... an epic CP 160 ruby ash inferno staff does 1132 damage, and an epic 1-handed CP 160 rubedite sword does 1132 damage. How is the damage done by the second 1-hander you can carry not an "advantage?"

And yet - who has the highest dps parses? Who got the most raid slots? Are it dw builds or someone with a stick?

Dual wield builds have 4/8 dps slots in a trial grp.

Kikke

BohnT wrote: »

laksikus wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

I'll specifically still run DW on some of my builds because I want the higher damage (DW swords + nirnhoned main hand) AND more penetration (off hand sword will be sharpened).

DW will still have its advantages!

You know that DW gives you a lot less damage?
You deal 3% less single or AoE damage depending on your staff chosen and the weaves make up for the pitiful 1.3k penetration from sharpened + with ele drain you have access to major breach which is a debuff not many classes have access to while it also gives you 600 free magregen
There is no reason to ever use a non staff weapon on a magicka class on an offensive bar.

Bomblades.


Dw still gives more raw dmg without looking at the trait. And you can split traits up like he said above.

If you go for tether bomb a lightning staff still wins, splitting up traits won't substitute the damage loss of weaves in actual combat.

as a bomb I would rather go DW and get 5% increase too ALL dmg, then go lightning staff and get 8% on AOE only dmg. Because there are allways a few left behind I need to deal with.

BohnT

kikkehs wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

laksikus wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

I'll specifically still run DW on some of my builds because I want the higher damage (DW swords + nirnhoned main hand) AND more penetration (off hand sword will be sharpened).

DW will still have its advantages!

You know that DW gives you a lot less damage?
You deal 3% less single or AoE damage depending on your staff chosen and the weaves make up for the pitiful 1.3k penetration from sharpened + with ele drain you have access to major breach which is a debuff not many classes have access to while it also gives you 600 free magregen
There is no reason to ever use a non staff weapon on a magicka class on an offensive bar.

Bomblades.


Dw still gives more raw dmg without looking at the trait. And you can split traits up like he said above.

If you go for tether bomb a lightning staff still wins, splitting up traits won't substitute the damage loss of weaves in actual combat.

as a bomb I would rather go DW and get 5% increase too ALL dmg, then go lightning staff and get 8% on AOE only dmg. Because there are allways a few left behind I need to deal with.

You only use AoE to bomb, tether+Sap+Deto.

And if you have to kill people in single target then DW loses again because the weaving of staves is much stronger than 5% extra damage.

There is no reason to use DW on magspecs.

Tyralbin

Not sure if anybody mentioned bows as well. No time to read all posts.

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO

Yup,

if DW, or One Hand and Shield is gonna cost 16 Tempers/Rosin (2 Items) Verse 8 Tempers/Rosin (1 item), then Dual Wield and One Hand and Shield need a slight buff.

And don't tell me, "aww DW already does more damage...", well then it needs to do more..Full Stop..

Vapirko

red_emu wrote: »

Yes, sure. Because stamina characters don't have the OP burst, high mobility, snare removal and lightning speed. Sure. Us mag users can't have nice things for once or someone will scream nerf mag.

Damn mag users are such whiners. Play a stam toon if it’s so *** op. I’ve played stam warden, templar, NB, DK, and sorc, as well as magicka tempalr, NB, and now sorc also and I can tell you that the line between the two is constantly shifting. Classes have their issues individually, I can assure you that if say you decide to play a stamina DK you’re gonna get trashed, a stamina sorc you’re going to feel like you have no damage skills and you don’t, if you play a stamplar you’re gonna run outta stam in a few seconds and if you play a warden... well ok warden is strong. Stamina is not just OP in general as so many seem to think.

But to address the OPs post yes it makes perfect sense. The passives of both stamina and magicka 2H weapons/staves are equal to the duel wield passives. But most of the traits are halved, it’s not the fact that you get to enchantments or two traits that people ran DW. It was for the 2 set bonus and the dots. That gap is closing and it makes sense to lower the amount of tempers for 1h weapons.

Chilly-McFreeze

kikkehs wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Imryll wrote: »

Hmm... an epic CP 160 ruby ash inferno staff does 1132 damage, and an epic 1-handed CP 160 rubedite sword does 1132 damage. How is the damage done by the second 1-hander you can carry not an "advantage?"

And yet - who has the highest dps parses? Who got the most raid slots? Are it dw builds or someone with a stick?

Dual wield builds have 4/8 dps slots in a trial grp.

We will see about that after the patch rolled out.

Rocki

In before they make it 400 mats to craft a staff, 16 gold mats to upgrade and 100 crystals to transmute.