Would you support earning Crown Items with Gold-to-Crown conversion?

Knowledge

In Guild Wars 2 you can buy Gems for gold and sell Gems for gold. With the advent of the "gifting system" this is going to happen anyway without an official system or any clarification on whether or not it's allowed.

Since it's going to be hard for ZOS to police gifts-for-gold perhaps they should implement a full blown conversion system similar to GW2.

Please comment below with your thoughts. Would you be for this system and if so how would you implement it?

Cpt_Teemo

Agreed, atleast you'll have a reason to actually play the game if you can actually get something with in game currency

or better yet just copy WoW's Token, where someone buys token for 20$ then sells it in game on a newly created marketer vendor where you can't sell it below the minimum and then the server determines the price after that

Those 20$ tokens will then be converted to 1500 crowns on your account per token you use, and limit it to 12 yearly just like WoW.

Knowledge

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

Agreed, atleast you'll have a reason to actually play the game if you can actually get something with in game currency

or better yet just copy WoW's Token, where someone buys token for 20$ then sells it in game on a newly created marketer vendor where you can't sell it below the minimum and then the server determines the price after that

Those 20$ tokens will then be converted to 1500 crowns on your account per token you use, and limit it to 12 yearly just like WoW.

It would be easier to just sell ESO+ on the store for crowns so you would just earn the crowns and they buy it that way.

AlienatedGoat

A post I made in a previous thread:

There's nothing stopping it from happening.

ZOS is well aware of this, and as far as I know, it's not explicitly stated in the TOS about arranging a Crown Store gift in exchange for gold. Which makes this situation very murky.

ZOS really needs to come down on one side of this fence or the other. By being indifferent and silent on the issue, they really will encourage scamming. If ZOS doesn't want "CS gifts for gold" in their game, then they need to amend the TOS to make it illicit.

If they aren't going to make "CS gifts for gold" illicit, then they should just go the full measure and make it possible to trade gifts within the trading UI and/or COD them in the mail system. People are probably already going to do it whether ZOS says so or not, in which case the least ZOS could do is make it more secure and take control of the situation.

Either way, it would be better than the silence.

To add to this:

Yes, I support CS gifts for gold. And I'd support gold for crowns as well.

For the simple reason that it will already exist. Gold selling happens already, and with Crown Store gifting, CS gifts for gold will happen too.

The only differences here are that in one scenario, there is considerable risk involved in the transaction, money is transferred to third parties, and the number of potential scams is greatly increased.

In the other scenario, ZOS takes control of the situation, lessens the risk considerably, gets direct revenue from the transactions, and reduces the scam potential to near zero.

The right choice is obvious to me.

Cpt_Teemo

I can see all the scam tickets now, scam tickets over flooding over content updates.

Knowledge

Phage wrote: »

A post I made in a previous thread:

There's nothing stopping it from happening.

ZOS is well aware of this, and as far as I know, it's not explicitly stated in the TOS about arranging a Crown Store gift in exchange for gold. Which makes this situation very murky.

ZOS really needs to come down on one side of this fence or the other. By being indifferent and silent on the issue, they really will encourage scamming. If ZOS doesn't want "CS gifts for gold" in their game, then they need to amend the TOS to make it illicit.

If they aren't going to make "CS gifts for gold" illicit, then they should just go the full measure and make it possible to trade gifts within the trading UI and/or COD them in the mail system. People are probably already going to do it whether ZOS says so or not, in which case the least ZOS could do is make it more secure and take control of the situation.

Either way, it would be better than the silence.

To add to this:

Yes, I support CS gifts for gold. And I'd support gold for crowns as well.

For the simple reason that it will already exist. Gold selling happens already, and with Crown Store gifting, CS gifts for gold will happen too.

The only differences here are that in one scenario, there is considerable risk involved in the transaction, money is transferred to third parties, and the number of potential scams is greatly increased.

In the other scenario, ZOS takes control of the situation, lessens the risk considerably, gets direct revenue from the transactions, and reduces the scam potential to near zero.

The right choice is obvious to me.

Well, that's why I am proposing this system so people don't get scammed and ZOS doesn't have to try to police it. It's a win-win for all parties. ZOS gets additional revenue, people buying gold with crowns, and the players without a lot of money or unwilling to spend money can exchange their gold for Crowns.

Everyone benefits. Instead of the current system that is coming which will be "gifts for gold and you might get scammed".

AlienatedGoat

Knowledge wrote: »

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

Agreed, atleast you'll have a reason to actually play the game if you can actually get something with in game currency

or better yet just copy WoW's Token, where someone buys token for 20$ then sells it in game on a newly created marketer vendor where you can't sell it below the minimum and then the server determines the price after that

Those 20$ tokens will then be converted to 1500 crowns on your account per token you use, and limit it to 12 yearly just like WoW.

It would be easier to just sell ESO+ on the store for crowns so you would just earn the crowns and they buy it that way.

That'd be little weird though. You pay 14.99 a month for ESO+, which in Crown value is ~1500 Crowns.

So you'd pay 1500 crowns for ESO+.

But ESO+ comes with 1500 Crowns.

So they'd have to restructure the subscription contents without Crowns and somehow keep the same value. I don't see how they can do that.

Knowledge

Phage wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

Agreed, atleast you'll have a reason to actually play the game if you can actually get something with in game currency

or better yet just copy WoW's Token, where someone buys token for 20$ then sells it in game on a newly created marketer vendor where you can't sell it below the minimum and then the server determines the price after that

Those 20$ tokens will then be converted to 1500 crowns on your account per token you use, and limit it to 12 yearly just like WoW.

It would be easier to just sell ESO+ on the store for crowns so you would just earn the crowns and they buy it that way.

That'd be little weird though. You pay 14.99 a month for ESO+, which in Crown value is ~1500 Crowns.

So you'd pay 1500 crowns for ESO+.

But ESO+ comes with 1500 Crowns.

So they'd have to restructure the subscription contents without Crowns and somehow keep the same value. I don't see how they can do that.

ESO+ "Scrolls" bought with crowns would not include the monthly crowns. Only subs would get that.

Cpt_Teemo

Phage wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

Agreed, atleast you'll have a reason to actually play the game if you can actually get something with in game currency

or better yet just copy WoW's Token, where someone buys token for 20$ then sells it in game on a newly created marketer vendor where you can't sell it below the minimum and then the server determines the price after that

Those 20$ tokens will then be converted to 1500 crowns on your account per token you use, and limit it to 12 yearly just like WoW.

It would be easier to just sell ESO+ on the store for crowns so you would just earn the crowns and they buy it that way.

That'd be little weird though. You pay 14.99 a month for ESO+, which in Crown value is ~1500 Crowns.

So you'd pay 1500 crowns for ESO+.

But ESO+ comes with 1500 Crowns.

So they'd have to restructure the subscription contents without Crowns and somehow keep the same value. I don't see how they can do that.

Well as I said before they could simply just add ESO's version of WoW tokens and add a new marketer in game where anyone can list there tokens on for whatever price you want between a min and a max price which the game will probably set once someone lists one for an absurd amount.

Knowledge

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

Agreed, atleast you'll have a reason to actually play the game if you can actually get something with in game currency

or better yet just copy WoW's Token, where someone buys token for 20$ then sells it in game on a newly created marketer vendor where you can't sell it below the minimum and then the server determines the price after that

Those 20$ tokens will then be converted to 1500 crowns on your account per token you use, and limit it to 12 yearly just like WoW.

It would be easier to just sell ESO+ on the store for crowns so you would just earn the crowns and they buy it that way.

That'd be little weird though. You pay 14.99 a month for ESO+, which in Crown value is ~1500 Crowns.

So you'd pay 1500 crowns for ESO+.

But ESO+ comes with 1500 Crowns.

So they'd have to restructure the subscription contents without Crowns and somehow keep the same value. I don't see how they can do that.

Well as I said before they could simply just add ESO's version of WoW tokens and add a new marketer in game where anyone can list there tokens on for whatever price you want between a min and a max price which the game will probably set once someone lists one for an absurd amount.

In any case, the how "you would buy subs" is the simple problem. The big problem is going to be rampant gift-scams.

Cpt_Teemo

Knowledge wrote: »

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

Agreed, atleast you'll have a reason to actually play the game if you can actually get something with in game currency

or better yet just copy WoW's Token, where someone buys token for 20$ then sells it in game on a newly created marketer vendor where you can't sell it below the minimum and then the server determines the price after that

Those 20$ tokens will then be converted to 1500 crowns on your account per token you use, and limit it to 12 yearly just like WoW.

It would be easier to just sell ESO+ on the store for crowns so you would just earn the crowns and they buy it that way.

That'd be little weird though. You pay 14.99 a month for ESO+, which in Crown value is ~1500 Crowns.

So you'd pay 1500 crowns for ESO+.

But ESO+ comes with 1500 Crowns.

So they'd have to restructure the subscription contents without Crowns and somehow keep the same value. I don't see how they can do that.

Well as I said before they could simply just add ESO's version of WoW tokens and add a new marketer in game where anyone can list there tokens on for whatever price you want between a min and a max price which the game will probably set once someone lists one for an absurd amount.

In any case, the how "you would buy subs" is the simple problem. The big problem is going to be rampant gift-scams.

The WoW tokens are either sub tokens or 15$ Bnet Cash in WoW, so I would guess ESO would have the option to turn it into a 30 day sub with no 1500 crowns, or 1500 crowns without a month sub

Aliyavana

They should support it imo

Iselin

Knowledge wrote: »

In Guild Wars 2 you can buy Gems for gold and sell Gems for gold. With the advent of the "gifting system" this is going to happen anyway without an official system or any clarification on whether or not it's allowed.

Since it's going to be hard for ZOS to police gifts-for-gold perhaps they should implement a full blown conversion system similar to GW2.

Please comment below with your thoughts. Would you be for this system and if so how would you implement it?

Who says they're even going to try to police it?

Knowledge

Iselin wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

In Guild Wars 2 you can buy Gems for gold and sell Gems for gold. With the advent of the "gifting system" this is going to happen anyway without an official system or any clarification on whether or not it's allowed.

Since it's going to be hard for ZOS to police gifts-for-gold perhaps they should implement a full blown conversion system similar to GW2.

Please comment below with your thoughts. Would you be for this system and if so how would you implement it?

Who says they're even going to try to police it?

They may not. We have seen recent GM responses regarding in-game scams and it was stated to be a "Trade at your own risk system". This could be a hint of things to come.

AlienatedGoat

Iselin wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

In Guild Wars 2 you can buy Gems for gold and sell Gems for gold. With the advent of the "gifting system" this is going to happen anyway without an official system or any clarification on whether or not it's allowed.

Since it's going to be hard for ZOS to police gifts-for-gold perhaps they should implement a full blown conversion system similar to GW2.

Please comment below with your thoughts. Would you be for this system and if so how would you implement it?

Who says they're even going to try to police it?

They already settle in-game scams where no money is involved.

When money is involved, you can probably bet they'll intervene in scams too. People won't want to use Crown Gifting if it's not safe and backed by some sort of support.

Knowledge

Phage wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

In Guild Wars 2 you can buy Gems for gold and sell Gems for gold. With the advent of the "gifting system" this is going to happen anyway without an official system or any clarification on whether or not it's allowed.

Since it's going to be hard for ZOS to police gifts-for-gold perhaps they should implement a full blown conversion system similar to GW2.

Please comment below with your thoughts. Would you be for this system and if so how would you implement it?

Who says they're even going to try to police it?

They already settle in-game scams where no money is involved.

When money is involved, you can probably bet they'll intervene in scams too. People won't want to use Crown Gifting if it's not safe and backed by some sort of support.

Someone recently posted about how they were scammed and received a "trade at your own risk" GM response.

Kiralyn2000

Eh, games with in-game exchanges between Cash Shop Currency and in-game currency work better when there's some sort of limit on the in-game currency.


Example: Star Trek Online has an exchange between Refined Dilithium (in-game) and Zen (cash shop). You gather Unrefined Dilithium from all sorts of activities in the game, but you can only refine 8000 per day, per character. And Dil is also used for a number of other useful, in-demand things (so there's a reason why someone would want to buy Zen for $ and exchange it).

More importantly, Dilithium isn't used in the auction house - that's Credits, which can be farmed infinitely (like, say, ESO gold).


Games where the exchange is between Cash Currency and an infinitely-farmable resource? The exchange rate tends to grow so high that only the really rich (like, say, the trade guild moguls with 10's of millions of gold) can afford to bother exchanging. You also tend to get super-rich players trying to manipulate the market.

So, no. I wouldn't want to see Crowns & Gold directly exchangeable. I don't believe it'd work well.

Umariel

I personally would love this. I buy WoW tokens with gold all the time and keep my sub going that way.

That being said, ZO$ is no Blizzard. They would never do anything to make less money. Even if that means player retention.

Iselin

Knowledge wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

In Guild Wars 2 you can buy Gems for gold and sell Gems for gold. With the advent of the "gifting system" this is going to happen anyway without an official system or any clarification on whether or not it's allowed.

Since it's going to be hard for ZOS to police gifts-for-gold perhaps they should implement a full blown conversion system similar to GW2.

Please comment below with your thoughts. Would you be for this system and if so how would you implement it?

Who says they're even going to try to police it?

They may not. We have seen recent GM responses regarding in-game scams and it was stated to be a "Trade at your own risk system". This could be a hint of things to come.

They're implementing a half-*** system with gifting. It will obviously be used by some to do crown>gold conversions but instead of enabling a secure trading interface for it they're rolling it out on the honor system.

I personally don't like cash shop currency to gold exchanges in games that have them, but it's just a personal preference and opinion.

If they're going to enable that at all, what they're doing is the worst possible way to do it.

AlienatedGoat

Knowledge wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

In Guild Wars 2 you can buy Gems for gold and sell Gems for gold. With the advent of the "gifting system" this is going to happen anyway without an official system or any clarification on whether or not it's allowed.

Since it's going to be hard for ZOS to police gifts-for-gold perhaps they should implement a full blown conversion system similar to GW2.

Please comment below with your thoughts. Would you be for this system and if so how would you implement it?

Who says they're even going to try to police it?

They already settle in-game scams where no money is involved.

When money is involved, you can probably bet they'll intervene in scams too. People won't want to use Crown Gifting if it's not safe and backed by some sort of support.

Someone recently posted about how they were scammed and received a "trade at your own risk" GM response.

Yeah, wouldn't surprise me. Half of Support is outsourced, and they provide canned responses that say things like that.

Thing is, if you keep replying and keep on top of it, you eventually get a real support rep and they will work with you to get your stuff back.

There's countless examples of scamming victims being given their stuff back in this forum and on Reddit.

JasonSilverSpring

Knowledge wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

In Guild Wars 2 you can buy Gems for gold and sell Gems for gold. With the advent of the "gifting system" this is going to happen anyway without an official system or any clarification on whether or not it's allowed.

Since it's going to be hard for ZOS to police gifts-for-gold perhaps they should implement a full blown conversion system similar to GW2.

Please comment below with your thoughts. Would you be for this system and if so how would you implement it?

Who says they're even going to try to police it?

They already settle in-game scams where no money is involved.

When money is involved, you can probably bet they'll intervene in scams too. People won't want to use Crown Gifting if it's not safe and backed by some sort of support.

Someone recently posted about how they were scammed and received a "trade at your own risk" GM response.

I think it was a customer support rep response and I don't believe they ever disclosed the details of the "scam". Not sure that should be taken too seriously.

If they did this they would either have a very high gold cost or raise crown store prices since some are flush with gold.

ESO+ needs to remain cash only for that recurring revenue.

zyk

Nah, this would be boring. But I would like to see an in-game acquisition path for all items.

Argruna

GW2 system works because of its fluidity, the way you gain gold (not that quickly unless you are always farming high end things to sell on the trader) and the fact that there is no subscription. Remember that their currency is split into 3 parts; gold, silver and copper. ESO+ gives 1500 Crowns a month. I'm sure those paying for the sub would be frustrated over someone just saving up 100k gold (which is super easy to do in this game) and just be able to get 1500 crowns.

Wow's token system is solely to create a cash dump for those with too much gold. Tokens have not dropped below 100k for a while now and they have a centralized auction system. Something like that would cause large destruction on ESO's traders in terms of availability and item prices. They need to fix problems with the traders themselves before even thinking of implementing something this stupid (guilds bidding and disbanding, etc).

I actually think Wildstar's system has been the best implement of getting items from the cash shop without dropping real dough. There is protobucks which you buy with real money, but there is also Omnibits that drop in the world that can be used by buy cash shop items (except for the loot boxes). The system is set up that it's actually quite easy to get Omnibits and I can see ESO easily implementing it into the dailies in the world. So you can buy Crowns if you want to and it doesn't devalue the crowns from the subscription in the way a token or gold trade in would. As another bonus for eso+, Wildstar does have a subscription base and they gave the subbers the ability to get two tokens if they drop instead of one. Same thing could be done here with the subscription, adding yet another perk to being subscribed.

inf.toniceb17_ESO

It works in Star Trek Online so why not. In STO however the same currency is required for improving items, building fleet bases, buying gear from fleet stores, theres also a special type of lockbox that you buy with it to get old discontinued items. So we will need a huge gold sink. Or an entirely new currency, that is required for many other things so people will have to choose. Otherwise crown prices will skyrocket and whole system will become useless. I mean nobody's gonna buy 1 crown for 1mil gold, right?
PS oh and theres also a limit on how much of that currency you can get on a single toon per 24 hours, so yeah we prolly gona need a separate currency, not gold.

AlienatedGoat

JasonSilverSpring wrote: »

I think it was a customer support rep response and I don't believe they ever disclosed the details of the "scam". Not sure that should be taken too seriously.

If they did this they would either have a very high gold cost or raise crown store prices since some are flush with gold.

ESO+ needs to remain cash only for that recurring revenue.

Oh is it that thread? I remember that thread, and yeah it was shady after all the details came out from the "victim".

Still, Support is really, really, really bad about providing canned responses, often multiple times, before you even get to talk to an actual, live person who will work with you. No joke, the first handful of responses you make won't even be read by the outsourced "support" reps that give you the canned responses back.

As far as gold and crown conversion goes, it's already very close.

I've done research into the gold sellers market, just to understand exactly what the value is on things in this game, and I've found that it's roughly 100,000 gold to 8 USD.

Translated to Crowns that's about 960 Crowns, using the Crown to USD rate of 3000 Crowns for $25. So lets call it about 100,000 gold for 1000 crowns.

That'd be about what I'd expect out of a legitimate gold to crown purchase and/or exchange, minus whatever fee for the exchange.

VaranisArano

Without ZOS stepping in, gifting for gold is absolutely gift-for-gold-at-your-own-risk.

The system is well designed for people ro gift items to people they actually know and who actually want the thing they are being gifted.

You know, actual gifts.

Its very risky to trade gold for gifts or gifts for gold. Its also poorly set up for surprise gifts. If this goes Live without further comments, Im going to assume that's by design. Trade and surprise at your own risk.

AlnilamE

Phage wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

In Guild Wars 2 you can buy Gems for gold and sell Gems for gold. With the advent of the "gifting system" this is going to happen anyway without an official system or any clarification on whether or not it's allowed.

Since it's going to be hard for ZOS to police gifts-for-gold perhaps they should implement a full blown conversion system similar to GW2.

Please comment below with your thoughts. Would you be for this system and if so how would you implement it?

Who says they're even going to try to police it?

They already settle in-game scams where no money is involved.

When money is involved, you can probably bet they'll intervene in scams too. People won't want to use Crown Gifting if it's not safe and backed by some sort of support.

Or maybe people will use crown gifting the way it is intended: To gift people without expecting something in return.

There is no way they can police this while equally protecting all sides. What if you promise someone a gift in return for say, Skyreach carries, but you don't actually have any crowns? Is ZOS going to charge your credit card for the amount you promised?

Saucy_Jack

AlnilamE wrote: »

Or maybe people will use crown gifting the way it is intended: To gift people without expecting something in return.

This. It's called a gifting system for a reason; it's not called "lobby politics" for the same reason.

Knowledge

Saucy_Jack wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Or maybe people will use crown gifting the way it is intended: To gift people without expecting something in return.

This. It's called a gifting system for a reason; it's not called "lobby politics" for the same reason.

What you're failing to account for is that these systems have been implemented in hundreds of games and the result is always people gifting for gold with some people using it as intended.

KingYogi415

The only reason they do this is because the store is P2W.

It's how they justify selling gold or items that can be sold for gold.

Only trash failing games need to do this to keep their servers open.

Eso is neither trash, nor failing.

If these other games are so great, go play them!

Knowledge

KingYogi415 wrote: »

The only reason they do this is because the store is P2W.

It's how they justify selling gold or items that can be sold for gold.

Only trash failing games need to do this to keep their servers open.

Eso is neither trash, nor failing.

If these other games are so great, go play them!

WoW isn't failing and does it. WoW is the biggest MMO.