Is Zaan's Broken?

Æterny

Waffennacht

I'm on the fence

It is very powerful. But is it OP? The LoS part kinda is, but let's assume LoS broke it - then I gotta say... Maybe?

Metemsycosis

No

I mostly play nbs and zaan is virtually a non-issue unless I deserve to die anyway (meaning out of magicka & stamina).

TheDoomsdayMonster

No

The only thing that needs to be fixed about Zaan is the beam not breaking when you break LoS...

Once they fix that, its fine...

Morgul667

Yes

It is broken in non cp bg

Make los break it and increase slightly duration decrease damage by as much and reduce cooldown slightly

Metemsycosis

No

Cool down and damage are good imo and if cloak breaks zaan so should Los.

BohnT

Yes

Yes it is description below

huschdeguddzje

Its fine

Just give it some easy way to counter itin pvp so they stop crying and pvers can still have fun

BohnT

Yes

Yes it is.
A set that can kill a player on its own needs to have very very easy counterplay.
Zaan doesn't have that, the wearer can easily stay in a 10m range of it's pretty and force them to take absurd amounts of damage.

A long cooldown doesn't justify a set that makes you win so many fights or apply ∅5k pressure over 5 seconds. Most ults are not able to do that while having more drawbacks, cost something and have easier counterplay

ak_pvp

No

No. Counterplay is super easy. The only specs that should complain are wardens and DKs, but both can mist, root and out move. And DK can use cc.

Only time it kills me are in some niche BG situations, like if I get ganked whilst running and am out of stam, a cc bugs out and I can't break it, or I can't mist with a relic/ball.

Make LOS break it and we are all good.

Emma_Overload

Please nerf it

When guys who can't kill me normally all of a sudden can kill me with this set... yeah it's bogus, and it needs to be nerfed.

Æterny

Yes

BohnT wrote: »

Yes it is.
A set that can kill a player on its own needs to have very very easy counterplay.
Zaan doesn't have that, the wearer can easily stay in a 10m range of it's pretty and force them to take absurd amounts of damage.

A long cooldown doesn't justify a set that makes you win so many fights or apply ∅5k pressure over 5 seconds. Most ults are not able to do that while having more drawbacks, cost something and have easier counterplay

Yeah, you said it all. When it procs and you lag, you die. Or even when you try to break CC and the command don't input even when you have full stam or similar

Vapirko

Please nerf it

Agree with making it break on LOS

Raudgrani

Yes

I've only died a couple of times to it, but those have been the highest dmg numbers I've ever seen in Cyrodiil. Not much of a big deal with now.

CaliMade

Please nerf it

Was fighting a Dk wearing ZAAN on my non vamp mag DK. I was just messing around with him the whole fight, he had absolutley no pressure. He procced Zaan On me Before I went on the Offensive, ZAAN nearly killed me alone while this kid couldnt even break free frm my CC. He didnt hit me one *** time while it was procced and ZAAN took 20k health from me. His dungeon set alone Nearly killed me when the fight was very very clear that he couldnt even apply basic pressure.

I can take full Channel soul assaults on this character without blocking and take only like 14-15k damage. WHY is this 2 pc set proc stronger than an ultimate?


IDGAF How easy it is for a nb or a sorc to escape. No dungeon set should do 20k on its own

Unfadingsilence

No

Currently I only play NB in pvp so I must say for me it's 100% fine since I can just cloak it

Æterny

Yes

Ok, so far we can notice that only Nightblades and Zaan users are fine with it...

usmguy1234

Yes

With the caveat of being in non-cp. In non-cp zaan is complete overkill.

Brutusmax1mus

Yes

Long cooldown rediculous damage sets couldn't exist. They are impossible to balance. For a majority ofthe player base.

WillhelmBlack

Please nerf it

It'll get Wrobelstomped eventually. Next DLC after Summerset, then there'll be a new OP set you'll have to buy.

CO_Gibbs

Yes

As mentioned, the main issue seems to be in BGs. For example, on Quarry, I was fighting a Zaan user just under their spawn, got hit with a Zaan, and I moved to underneath the wooden floor they were standing on. The Zaan beam followed me and hit me through the floor for a total of 15k. I didn't die, but that shouldn't happen IMO.

I've noticed reverb bash is pretty spotty with interrupting it, as well. The user will enter stun, but Zaan still procs.

CatchMeTrolling

The problem is you can’t break los, I’ve only died when someone jumped me with it on. The damage is high and probably should be tweaked. Although that’s not my issue, my issue is that the set can make you burn unnecessary resources trying to ward off the user when you can’t break it automatically.

ak_pvp

No

Æterny wrote: »

Ok, so far we can notice that only Nightblades and Zaan users are fine with it...

I am neither. It has a few situational issues but strawmaning and generalising won't get your point across.

BohnT

Yes

ak_pvp wrote: »

Æterny wrote: »

Ok, so far we can notice that only Nightblades and Zaan users are fine with it...

I am neither. It has a few situational issues but strawmaning and generalising won't get your point across.

It's not strawmanning, anyone who claims Zaan is balanced hasn't experienced balance or isn't intrested in skill based balance.

A set should never be able to kill or save an enemy player on its own.
We had a time when everyone was running around with willpower/ agility + monster set (no strong procs there except for skoria) + a non proc 5 piece this was a good time and I'd delete all my characters just to get back to that time.
There were people joking on the forums that we'll se a set in the future with a long cooldown that just one shots players and well Zaan isn't far from that

CaliMade

Please nerf it

@ak_pvp

How can you justify my inccident? I have the opponent fully CC’D and im applyng pressure. Why is it that he can nearly kill me without casting an ability for an entire 5 seconds? and I did heal too i rewatched the clip i made. zaan procs on me at 20k hp, I drop to 14k after a few seconds then cast Dragons blood witch hits non crit 4.9k takes me back to 19k hp, CC him then I cast a flame lash, he breaks free and fossilizes me at witch point im at 3k HP when the Zaan proc ends. Thats gotta be a total damage of nearly 25k on a non vamp. I coudnt have created distance, im snared and he has a leap ready(i know this because he leaped on me after i broke his fossilize.) would it have been fair if i would have died to this player? I dont think so.

My Dk is a Dark elf (2k extra flame resist)
I have 24k spell resist
52 points into Thick skinned (roughly 19% reduced DOT damage)

Why is it in any way balaced for this set to nearly kill me on its own?

Waffennacht

CaliMade wrote: »

@ak_pvp

How can you justify my inccident? I have the opponent fully CC’D and im applyng pressure. Why is it that he can nearly kill me without casting an ability for an entire 5 seconds? and I did heal too i rewatched the clip i made. zaan procs on me at 20k hp, I drop to 14k after a few seconds then cast Dragons blood witch hits non crit 4.9k takes me back to 19k hp, CC him then I cast a flame lash, he breaks free and fossilizes me at witch point im at 3k HP when the Zaan proc ends. Thats gotta be a total damage of nearly 25k on a non vamp. I coudnt have created distance, im snared and he has a leap ready(i know this because he leaped on me after i broke his fossilize.) would it have been fair if i would have died to this player? I dont think so.

My Dk is a Dark elf (2k extra flame resist)
I have 24k spell resist
52 points into Thick skinned (roughly 19% reduced DOT damage)

Why is it in any way balaced for this set to nearly kill me on its own?

Most people think Zaan is an offensive set, it's only semi offensive. It's best use is as described above. From going defense to offense.

It forces a break in your opponent's attack, or they die

CaliMade

Please nerf it

Waffennacht wrote: »

CaliMade wrote: »

@ak_pvp

How can you justify my inccident? I have the opponent fully CC’D and im applyng pressure. Why is it that he can nearly kill me without casting an ability for an entire 5 seconds? and I did heal too i rewatched the clip i made. zaan procs on me at 20k hp, I drop to 14k after a few seconds then cast Dragons blood witch hits non crit 4.9k takes me back to 19k hp, CC him then I cast a flame lash, he breaks free and fossilizes me at witch point im at 3k HP when the Zaan proc ends. Thats gotta be a total damage of nearly 25k on a non vamp. I coudnt have created distance, im snared and he has a leap ready(i know this because he leaped on me after i broke his fossilize.) would it have been fair if i would have died to this player? I dont think so.

My Dk is a Dark elf (2k extra flame resist)
I have 24k spell resist
52 points into Thick skinned (roughly 19% reduced DOT damage)

Why is it in any way balaced for this set to nearly kill me on its own?

Most people think Zaan is an offensive set, it's only semi offensive. It's best use is as described above. From going defense to offense.

It forces a break in your opponent's attack, or they die

That doesnt make any sense.
If anything you streghten the argument on why it needs adjustment.
When somthing becomes overly effective on offense and on defence with little input from the player how can this possibly be considered balanced?
If this set can pull 20k+ alone. Imagine how its performs when your on the offensive.

Waffennacht

CaliMade wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

CaliMade wrote: »

@ak_pvp

How can you justify my inccident? I have the opponent fully CC’D and im applyng pressure. Why is it that he can nearly kill me without casting an ability for an entire 5 seconds? and I did heal too i rewatched the clip i made. zaan procs on me at 20k hp, I drop to 14k after a few seconds then cast Dragons blood witch hits non crit 4.9k takes me back to 19k hp, CC him then I cast a flame lash, he breaks free and fossilizes me at witch point im at 3k HP when the Zaan proc ends. Thats gotta be a total damage of nearly 25k on a non vamp. I coudnt have created distance, im snared and he has a leap ready(i know this because he leaped on me after i broke his fossilize.) would it have been fair if i would have died to this player? I dont think so.

My Dk is a Dark elf (2k extra flame resist)
I have 24k spell resist
52 points into Thick skinned (roughly 19% reduced DOT damage)

Why is it in any way balaced for this set to nearly kill me on its own?

Most people think Zaan is an offensive set, it's only semi offensive. It's best use is as described above. From going defense to offense.

It forces a break in your opponent's attack, or they die

That doesnt make any sense.
If anything you streghten the argument on why it needs adjustment.
When somthing becomes overly effective on offense and on defence with little input from the player how can this possibly be considered balanced?
If this set can pull 20k+ alone. Imagine how its performs when your on the offensive.

It wasn't a comment on it's balance. More about how it's most effectively used. I'm personally on the fence.

If you say are a stealthed NB and you jump me in a BG. I'm gonna be on my back bar (if not insta-gibbed).

If I'm on my backbar, you the NB, are gonna try and finish me off right? Seeing as I weave there's a high probability I'm gonna proc Zaan while casting something like BoL, Healing Ward, Trellis etc...

When Zaan procs in this situation, you the NB, can either try and finish me off, if not you're probably gonna die as Zaan progresses. If you break Zaan, I can now recover and attack you.

This, imo, is much more effective than say trying to proc Zaan on a player when they're defensive. NB can cloak, sorc streak, Templar purge (warden and DK.... I dunno what they can do).

That's all I was saying

WillhelmBlack

Please nerf it

BohnT wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Æterny wrote: »

Ok, so far we can notice that only Nightblades and Zaan users are fine with it...

I am neither. It has a few situational issues but strawmaning and generalising won't get your point across.

It's not strawmanning, anyone who claims Zaan is balanced hasn't experienced balance or isn't intrested in skill based balance.

A set should never be able to kill or save an enemy player on its own.
We had a time when everyone was running around with willpower/ agility + monster set (no strong procs there except for skoria) + a non proc 5 piece this was a good time and I'd delete all my characters just to get back to that time.
There were people joking on the forums that we'll se a set in the future with a long cooldown that just one shots players and well Zaan isn't far from that

^^^^

Kikke

Please Buff it

Too easy to counter, should double the dmg done!

ak_pvp

No

BohnT wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Æterny wrote: »

Ok, so far we can notice that only Nightblades and Zaan users are fine with it...

I am neither. It has a few situational issues but strawmaning and generalising won't get your point across.

It's not strawmanning, anyone who claims Zaan is balanced hasn't experienced balance or isn't intrested in skill based balance.

A set should never be able to kill or save an enemy player on its own.
We had a time when everyone was running around with willpower/ agility + monster set (no strong procs there except for skoria) + a non proc 5 piece this was a good time and I'd delete all my characters just to get back to that time.
There were people joking on the forums that we'll se a set in the future with a long cooldown that just one shots players and well Zaan isn't far from that

Its strawmanning to say that everyone pro zaan is either an NB or a user, because they are passing it as a fact when it isn't.

I hated the old, willpower+kags/julianos or hundings+something like bloodspawn or EG, or maybe 2x 1 piece time. Everything was brutally samey and meta.

It can't kill on its own unless the opponent is standing there presenting, it kills when utilizing CCs after draining the opponent and putting them in a spot they can't counter it otherwise. Then over 6s with a timed burst to help. Its a fair playstyle if you ask me, especially since fair few classes can really pull it off.

CaliMade wrote: »

@ak_pvp

How can you justify my inccident? I have the opponent fully CC’D and im applyng pressure. Why is it that he can nearly kill me without casting an ability for an entire 5 seconds? and I did heal too i rewatched the clip i made. zaan procs on me at 20k hp, I drop to 14k after a few seconds then cast Dragons blood witch hits non crit 4.9k takes me back to 19k hp, CC him then I cast a flame lash, he breaks free and fossilizes me at witch point im at 3k HP when the Zaan proc ends. Thats gotta be a total damage of nearly 25k on a non vamp. I coudnt have created distance, im snared and he has a leap ready(i know this because he leaped on me after i broke his fossilize.) would it have been fair if i would have died to this player? I dont think so.

My Dk is a Dark elf (2k extra flame resist)
I have 24k spell resist
52 points into Thick skinned (roughly 19% reduced DOT damage)

Why is it in any way balaced for this set to nearly kill me on its own?

You had 5s when he was CC'd and you didn't react to the zaan. Its like me damaging an enemy, them breaking free and then 1shot leaping me, you didn't stay on guard, as such, you died.

Mist, waltz away, take like 6k damage overall. (A few dot ticks worth) Sorts the snare, creates distance, reduces damage. I can count the times on one hand when I have died to zaan alone, and not a situation where I wouldn't have died anyway.