PvP'er vs PvE'er Mentality

ShadowKyuubi

There is a lot to be said for the resilience of PvE'ers doing the veteran trial content, especially the one who do progression runs on DLC content. These progression runs can last for months depending on how often the group can meet and how long they can stay grouped per run. These people will continue to be just a resilient for future content. This is because a good group will look at a failed run and say one of two things: "What killed us this time and how do we fix it?" or "Get Gewd." They continue facing the problem and come up with new strategies until they are successful and have the new skin.

The same cannot be said for the PvP'ers. A few of them are resilient and pick themselves back up after a failure, however a lot of them just whine and complain to ZOS for more nerfs. You can look at the PvE forums and compare them to the PvP forums. This difference is usually because there are a lot of guildless people playing PvP compared to PvE, and they don't seem to understand strategy whatsoever. However, they are still contributing to this problem.

The PvP'ers mentality towards failure has to change because you are slowly killing the vet trial community. You keep complaining and ZOS keeps nerfing. It has gotten to the point that a lot of builds are no longer viable for PvE content. One of my friends favorite toon is a MagDK that she can't use for vet content anymore because it isn't outputting as much DPS as it used to. It is not from a lack of skill, it is not from a lack of practicing parses, it is because enough people complained about MagDKs in PvP that ZOS nerfed the hell out of them. I cannot fault ZOS for this, nor will I because they are simply giving the majority of people what they want. Everytime something gets nerfed for PvP, it makes it that much harder for PvE. A lot of new people who want to do vet content get turned away, because it is legitimately too hard to get enough DPS now and it is sad. It used to be that you couldn't run a vet Trial because spots would fill up too fast, now you can't run a vet trial because you can't find enough people.

So I say this to all PvP'ers..."Get Gewd."

Tandor

PvE and PvP need to be kept separate - in the game world, in the skill balancing adjustments, and - as evidenced by this provocative thread - on the forum.

TequilaFire

Just what we need another PvE vs PvP bait thread.

Cyron74

ShadowKyuubi wrote: »

So I say this to all PvP'ers..."Get Gewd."

You can forget about that, I'm never going to get good....

Leandor

TequilaFire wrote: »

Just what we need another PvE vs PvP bait thread.

QFE.

Ley

The ever elusive PvE vs PvP balance. Don't think there will ever be true harmony between the two.

Sting864

TequilaFire wrote: »

Just what we need another PvE vs PvP bait thread.

It isn't bait if you don't take it....

Apache_Kid

You're way off base here.

See when you are actually fighting an opponent that can think for them-self and doesn't do the same pattern of attack over and over and over again, certain skills and sets have the potential to make PvP not fun because their functions allow them to be abused.

Yeah sure, some people come on here and whine and complain whenever they can't counter something easily but there are many legitimate complaints about the way certain skills and sets perform in PvP.

Someone who only plays PvE, doesn't understand this because your enemies cannot think for themselves. They do the same exact attacks, in the same exact order, and they do not adjust their tactics to better themselves against your gameplay.

Yeah if all my enemies were like that in PvP i would probably never find any balance issues in PvP because it would be so easy.


You should get out of your comfort zone and fight an enemy that can actually think for once. Maybe you will see how it is different from PvE.

Sincerely,

A both PvP AND PvE player.

JXNwarrior

I've done both I can tell you that vet PvP'ers can pick up vet PvE a lot easier than the other way around. IMO most imbalance issues are a bigger problem in PvP than in PvE which is why PvP'ers make up a larger amount of forum QQ. It would be great if they balanced them separately but they've responded before that they will not do so.

And btw MagDK is reported to be higher dps in PvE than most(all?) stamina dps next patch.

red_emu

PvE biased post is biased.

The_Smilemeister

How 'bout both PvE and PvP cry babies shut their pie holes?!

The real enemies are the Sorcs!

TequilaFire

From someone who just joined an hour ago. lol

red_emu

ShadowKyuubi wrote: »

'

So I say this to all PvP'ers..."Get Gewd."

Maybe you should 'Get Gewd' in fighting a proggrammed opponent that will do the exact same things at the exact % of their HP

EVERY

SINGLE

TIME

Recently I have run VetMOL with a group of PvP only guild. Hardly any of us has ever done any Vet PvE content. Guess what? The trial went quick and smooth and without many deaths. So... go figure.

King_Thelon

BEHOLD

When you come into the land of Cyrodiil,
You shall endeavour the Lord's Work.
You shall not learn to follow
The abominable practices of the PvE
That has weakened your mind and heart.

There shall not be found among you
Anyone who burns his sons or lambs
As an offering to the false Lords of the weak,
Of the misguided and of the pitiful.

There shall not be found among you
Anyone who practices divination,
Or tells fortunes or interprets omens,
Or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer,
Or one who inquires of the dead.

For whoever does these things is an abomination,
And it is the Lord's Work to drive them
Far from the land of Cyrodiil.

Sevn

Apache_Kid wrote: »

You're way off base here.

See when you are actually fighting an opponent that can think for them-self and doesn't do the same pattern of attack over and over and over again, certain skills and sets have the potential to make PvP not fun because their functions allow them to be abused.

Yeah sure, some people come on here and whine and complain whenever they can't counter something easily but there are many legitimate complaints about the way certain skills and sets perform in PvP.

Someone who only plays PvE, doesn't understand this because your enemies cannot think for themselves. They do the same exact attacks, in the same exact order, and they do not adjust their tactics to better themselves against your gameplay.

Yeah if all my enemies were like that in PvP i would probably never find any balance issues in PvP because it would be so easy.


You should get out of your comfort zone and fight an enemy that can actually think for once. Maybe you will see how it is different from PvE.

Sincerely,

A both PvP AND PvE player.

Stop it. Most pvper's I observe in cyro go after the easiest targets they can find. This whole "humans are more challenging" is a complete farce because you aren't fighting challenging opponents at all.

The_Smilemeister

Well this is gonna escalate quickly. Guess the Mods are already on standby.

Apache_Kid

Sevn wrote: »

show previous quotes

Apache_Kid wrote: »

You're way off base here.

See when you are actually fighting an opponent that can think for them-self and doesn't do the same pattern of attack over and over and over again, certain skills and sets have the potential to make PvP not fun because their functions allow them to be abused.

Yeah sure, some people come on here and whine and complain whenever they can't counter something easily but there are many legitimate complaints about the way certain skills and sets perform in PvP.

Someone who only plays PvE, doesn't understand this because your enemies cannot think for themselves. They do the same exact attacks, in the same exact order, and they do not adjust their tactics to better themselves against your gameplay.

Yeah if all my enemies were like that in PvP i would probably never find any balance issues in PvP because it would be so easy.


You should get out of your comfort zone and fight an enemy that can actually think for once. Maybe you will see how it is different from PvE.

Sincerely,

A both PvP AND PvE player.

Stop it. Most pvper's I observe in cyro go after the easiest targets they can find. This whole "humans are more challenging" is a complete farce because you aren't fighting challenging opponents at all.

You stop it. I fight challenging battles every day in Cyrodiil and Battlegrounds And what do you mean "Most PvP'ers i observe" do you follow them around and take notes?

Your personal observations mean **** all here.

BozzyTheDrummer

Tandor wrote: »

PvE and PvP need to be kept separate - in the game world, in the skill balancing adjustments, and - as evidenced by this provocative thread - on the forum.

Yes - don't want ESo to be the Elder Scrolls version of Destiny 2. PvE and PvP need to be separate.

ShadowKyuubi

I would like to thank people for proving my point. People immediately become hostile about this post. The term "Get Gewd" isn't an insult, or a lot of people I know don't view it that way. It simply means that we need to practice more and bet better, not that we are bad, but there is room for improvement.

I agree, that on some level PvP is harder, because the opponent can think for themselves. Some nerfs are justified because of the way they get exploited. I forgot how I wanted to end this paragraph....so I'll end it here till I remember.

Cheers,
A PvE'er and (former) PvP'er

Apache_Kid

ShadowKyuubi wrote: »

I would like to thank people for proving my point. People immediately become hostile about this post. The term "Get Gewd" isn't an insult, or a lot of people I know don't view it that way. It simply means that we need to practice more and bet better, not that we are bad, but there is room for improvement.

I agree, that on some level PvP is harder, because the opponent can think for themselves. Some nerfs are justified because of the way they get exploited. I forgot how I wanted to end this paragraph....so I'll end it here till I remember.

Cheers,
A PvE'er and (former) PvP'er

LOL you don't get to start this ****storm and disappear. Defend your point cause i shattered it into a million pieces.

ayu_fever

its always gonna be “us versus them,” and by US i mean the pve players (the good guys).
there will never be harmony between the two playerbases.

Vapirko

That’s because losing to a player is infinitely more frustrating than losing to a boss that goes through a more or less preset battle plan. In the former you must continually adapt and you’re testing your reflexes and ability to stay calm and fight agains the ultimate opoment, another human. Nothing guarantees success except experience and skill, so when you lose you have failed as a player. For PvE it’s more about memorizing mechanics, having the right gear and learning rotations that repeat. Once you have that you can win. So naturally there is more frustration when it comes to PvP because you may spend years playing and still not match up to some players.

The_Smilemeister

DaveMoeDee

Sevn wrote: »

show previous quotes

Apache_Kid wrote: »

You're way off base here.

See when you are actually fighting an opponent that can think for them-self and doesn't do the same pattern of attack over and over and over again, certain skills and sets have the potential to make PvP not fun because their functions allow them to be abused.

Yeah sure, some people come on here and whine and complain whenever they can't counter something easily but there are many legitimate complaints about the way certain skills and sets perform in PvP.

Someone who only plays PvE, doesn't understand this because your enemies cannot think for themselves. They do the same exact attacks, in the same exact order, and they do not adjust their tactics to better themselves against your gameplay.

Yeah if all my enemies were like that in PvP i would probably never find any balance issues in PvP because it would be so easy.


You should get out of your comfort zone and fight an enemy that can actually think for once. Maybe you will see how it is different from PvE.

Sincerely,

A both PvP AND PvE player.

Stop it. Most pvper's I observe in cyro go after the easiest targets they can find. This whole "humans are more challenging" is a complete farce because you aren't fighting challenging opponents at all.

And most PvEers don't attempt trials. Comparing top PvEers with zerg fodder is disingenuous.

vovus69

I am all for pvp to be on separate Cyro+ic server and has no connection to the pve cyro+ic with independent set of skills. This might be very profitable for eso - pvp guys are easy and cheap to entertain - give them something and they will kill each other in mindless killing streak. PVE on the other hand is very expensive to develop - you need new content all the time. I actually would love to see the MMO with procedurally generated content. Like No Man's Sky, but in fantasy world. May be we will get it some day...

-vovus.

Dapper Dinosaur

I cannot fault ZOS for this, nor will I because they are simply giving the majority of people what they want.

It's literally ZOS's decision to balance PVP and PVE under the same set of rules despite the fact that they can't be any more different. I'd say the fault lies squarely on Zenimax.

Thogard

When PvEers whine about how PvP balance is ruining PvE balance, they’re being a bit disingenuous.

What they really mean to say is that PvP balance is ruining PvE easiness.

Good PvEers will adapt and overcome and find alternatives to the overperforming items that got nerfed. But let’s face it - it is not a “balance” issue for PvE because the monsters you’re facing aren’t wearing the sets that got nerfed.

So if you truly are a competitive PvE player, be happy that the difficulty is still high. Be happy that the tough PvE encounters are made harder by the removal of overperforming items and abilities.

But if the only thing keeping you as a member of your PvE raid is an overperforming item set, maybe it’s time to reroll or “get good” yourself.

But don’t pretend that PvE has “balance.” There will always be a fastest DPs, there will always be a healer meta, etc.

Just be honest with yourself and admit that you just aren’t good at PvE. And the fact that that item set or skill that got nerfed was the only thing keeping you in your raid is proof that it was unbalanced from a PvE perspective too.

Apache_Kid

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

show previous quotes

I cannot fault ZOS for this, nor will I because they are simply giving the majority of people what they want.

It's literally ZOS's decision to balance PVP and PVE under the same set of rules despite the fact that they can't be any more different. I'd say the fault lies squarely on Zenimax.

Yeah ZoS is about they only party you can fault here. They literally make all the decisions.

The_Smilemeister

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

show previous quotes

I cannot fault ZOS for this, nor will I because they are simply giving the majority of people what they want.

It's literally ZOS's decision to balance PVP and PVE under the same set of rules despite the fact that they can't be any more different. I'd say the fault lies squarely on Zenimax.

I'm with Dappy on this. Screw the Sorcs, that's old stuff! ZOS are the ones who decided that putting two inherently incompatible modes together was a great idea.

Drakkdjinn

Having done both extensively, I can say definitively that PvP is not PvEasy.

coop500

Just someone giving PVPers another chance to say how wonderful they are and how lame PVEers are, move on everybody