eso+ opt out of dlc

gimpdrb14_ESO

will eso+ members ever get the option to opt of vet dlc dungeons when we que up for randoms?

lardvader

Would be a nice feature - so far only sollution is to que for specific dungeons.

Only nice thing when playing my second account without ESO+ - I can press that random vet button without having a heart attack

gimpdrb14_ESO

I don't understand why that cant quick fix this.

redspecter23

gimpdrb14_ESO wrote: »

I don't understand why that cant quick fix this.

They don't realize it's an actual issue. You first have to convince them that players shouldn't be penalized for paying a monthly sub compared to players that don't sub or buy the DLC's.

Tasear

The content should not make you afraid. I think next they are trying fix this next patch by limiting "random queue" for these to CP 300.

Eyro

I think some of these things they don’t do because they are afraid of splitting the player pool. Same with BGs. The more pools you have the longer it takes to get a group together.

And honestly with the problems they have had in the past with the group finder, I’m not sure I really want them messing with it.

DMuehlhausen

gimpdrb14_ESO wrote: »

will eso+ members ever get the option to opt of vet dlc dungeons when we que up for randoms?

Why should we be able to? You are queuing for random. So you should randomly go into any dungeon that you have available to you.

exeeter702

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

gimpdrb14_ESO wrote: »

will eso+ members ever get the option to opt of vet dlc dungeons when we que up for randoms?

Why should we be able to? You are queuing for random. So you should randomly go into any dungeon that you have available to you.

Non eso plus subs queue for random and are ommited from dlc dungeons. The grievance being, generally, vet dlc dungeons have a very low successful clear rare when using the group finder for various reasons, and thus non subscribers are excluded from that variable and more reliably get their random dungeon finder bonuses since all non dlc dungeons can be cleared while half awake, drunk and/or high (barring coa2 maybe).

DMuehlhausen

exeeter702 wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

gimpdrb14_ESO wrote: »

will eso+ members ever get the option to opt of vet dlc dungeons when we que up for randoms?

Why should we be able to? You are queuing for random. So you should randomly go into any dungeon that you have available to you.

Non eso plus subs queue for random and are ommited from dlc dungeons. The grievance being, generally, vet dlc dungeons have a very low successful clear rare when using the group finder for various reasons, and thus non subscribers are excluded from that variable and more reliably get their random dungeon finder bonuses since all non dlc dungeons can be cleared while half awake, drunk and/or high (barring coa2 maybe).

Again though, why should we be able to? They obviously can't cause they don't have the content. You have the content and you've said you want to do a Random Vet Dungeon. You should be put in the queue with the possibility of doing any of them. The rates wouldn't be so low on clears if people actually took some time to teach people how to do the fights instead of being oh look you are not CP 10k+ vote kick! Or oh you mean you died once when the healer DC'd you both suck VOTE KICK! Or my favorite, VOTE KICK! why? Dunno just bored.

AlnilamE

exeeter702 wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

gimpdrb14_ESO wrote: »

will eso+ members ever get the option to opt of vet dlc dungeons when we que up for randoms?

Why should we be able to? You are queuing for random. So you should randomly go into any dungeon that you have available to you.

Non eso plus subs queue for random and are ommited from dlc dungeons. The grievance being, generally, vet dlc dungeons have a very low successful clear rare when using the group finder for various reasons, and thus non subscribers are excluded from that variable and more reliably get their random dungeon finder bonuses since all non dlc dungeons can be cleared while half awake, drunk and/or high (barring coa2 maybe).

Only if they don't own the DLC, which if they are queuing for random Vets, I would assume they do.

If you are pugging Vet dungeons, you probably like dungeons enough to buy dungeon DLCs.

Chilly-McFreeze

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

gimpdrb14_ESO wrote: »

will eso+ members ever get the option to opt of vet dlc dungeons when we que up for randoms?

Why should we be able to? You are queuing for random. So you should randomly go into any dungeon that you have available to you.

Non eso plus subs queue for random and are ommited from dlc dungeons. The grievance being, generally, vet dlc dungeons have a very low successful clear rare when using the group finder for various reasons, and thus non subscribers are excluded from that variable and more reliably get their random dungeon finder bonuses since all non dlc dungeons can be cleared while half awake, drunk and/or high (barring coa2 maybe).

Again though, why should we be able to? They obviously can't cause they don't have the content. You have the content and you've said you want to do a Random Vet Dungeon. You should be put in the queue with the possibility of doing any of them. The rates wouldn't be so low on clears if people actually took some time to teach people how to do the fights instead of being oh look you are not CP 10k+ vote kick! Or oh you mean you died once when the healer DC'd you both suck VOTE KICK! Or my favorite, VOTE KICK! why? Dunno just bored.

Is there a reason for your hostility? All he said is that non-sub players can que for random and have an easy time. Subscribers have a harder time bc many players insta-quit or are not capable of clearing those DLC dungeons. He puts the emphasis on difficulty. You put the emphasis on the "random" part. You both have a point. No reason for poor behavior.

AlnilamE

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

gimpdrb14_ESO wrote: »

will eso+ members ever get the option to opt of vet dlc dungeons when we que up for randoms?

Why should we be able to? You are queuing for random. So you should randomly go into any dungeon that you have available to you.

Non eso plus subs queue for random and are ommited from dlc dungeons. The grievance being, generally, vet dlc dungeons have a very low successful clear rare when using the group finder for various reasons, and thus non subscribers are excluded from that variable and more reliably get their random dungeon finder bonuses since all non dlc dungeons can be cleared while half awake, drunk and/or high (barring coa2 maybe).

Again though, why should we be able to? They obviously can't cause they don't have the content. You have the content and you've said you want to do a Random Vet Dungeon. You should be put in the queue with the possibility of doing any of them. The rates wouldn't be so low on clears if people actually took some time to teach people how to do the fights instead of being oh look you are not CP 10k+ vote kick! Or oh you mean you died once when the healer DC'd you both suck VOTE KICK! Or my favorite, VOTE KICK! why? Dunno just bored.

Is there a reason for your hostility? All he said is that non-sub players can que for random and have an easy time. Subscribers have a harder time bc many players insta-quit or are not capable of clearing those DLC dungeons. He puts the emphasis on difficulty. You put the emphasis on the "random" part. You both have a point. No reason for poor behavior.

You can set the difficulty by queuing for a Normal Random.

And as I pointed out, most people who are queuing for a random Vet are interested enough in dungeons that they probably own the DLCs even if they are not subscribers.

kargen27

AlnilamE wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

gimpdrb14_ESO wrote: »

will eso+ members ever get the option to opt of vet dlc dungeons when we que up for randoms?

Why should we be able to? You are queuing for random. So you should randomly go into any dungeon that you have available to you.

Non eso plus subs queue for random and are ommited from dlc dungeons. The grievance being, generally, vet dlc dungeons have a very low successful clear rare when using the group finder for various reasons, and thus non subscribers are excluded from that variable and more reliably get their random dungeon finder bonuses since all non dlc dungeons can be cleared while half awake, drunk and/or high (barring coa2 maybe).

Again though, why should we be able to? They obviously can't cause they don't have the content. You have the content and you've said you want to do a Random Vet Dungeon. You should be put in the queue with the possibility of doing any of them. The rates wouldn't be so low on clears if people actually took some time to teach people how to do the fights instead of being oh look you are not CP 10k+ vote kick! Or oh you mean you died once when the healer DC'd you both suck VOTE KICK! Or my favorite, VOTE KICK! why? Dunno just bored.

Is there a reason for your hostility? All he said is that non-sub players can que for random and have an easy time. Subscribers have a harder time bc many players insta-quit or are not capable of clearing those DLC dungeons. He puts the emphasis on difficulty. You put the emphasis on the "random" part. You both have a point. No reason for poor behavior.

You can set the difficulty by queuing for a Normal Random.

And as I pointed out, most people who are queuing for a random Vet are interested enough in dungeons that they probably own the DLCs even if they are not subscribers.

No way you can know what most people are doing in the game. There is a multitude of reasons why a player who enjoys running daily randoms would not have access to the DLCs. For this issue it doesn't matter though. The simple truth is some players feel they are being penalized by subscribing to the game when it comes to running the daily randoms. There is what seems to be an easy fix that would make the game more enjoyable for those players and have minimal impact on other players in the game. So the question is why not go with that easy fix?

exeeter702

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

gimpdrb14_ESO wrote: »

will eso+ members ever get the option to opt of vet dlc dungeons when we que up for randoms?

Why should we be able to? You are queuing for random. So you should randomly go into any dungeon that you have available to you.

Non eso plus subs queue for random and are ommited from dlc dungeons. The grievance being, generally, vet dlc dungeons have a very low successful clear rare when using the group finder for various reasons, and thus non subscribers are excluded from that variable and more reliably get their random dungeon finder bonuses since all non dlc dungeons can be cleared while half awake, drunk and/or high (barring coa2 maybe).

Again though, why should we be able to? They obviously can't cause they don't have the content. You have the content and you've said you want to do a Random Vet Dungeon. You should be put in the queue with the possibility of doing any of them. The rates wouldn't be so low on clears if people actually took some time to teach people how to do the fights instead of being oh look you are not CP 10k+ vote kick! Or oh you mean you died once when the healer DC'd you both suck VOTE KICK! Or my favorite, VOTE KICK! why? Dunno just bored.

Look man, i was pointing out the grievance, not looking for an outlet to defend player behavior for the various reasons vet dungeons often fail. It has nothing to do with teaching new players or not being elitist. Cp10 players have no business in vet dlc dungeons and zos agrees which is why the limitation is being added.

AlnilamE wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

gimpdrb14_ESO wrote: »

will eso+ members ever get the option to opt of vet dlc dungeons when we que up for randoms?

Why should we be able to? You are queuing for random. So you should randomly go into any dungeon that you have available to you.

Non eso plus subs queue for random and are ommited from dlc dungeons. The grievance being, generally, vet dlc dungeons have a very low successful clear rare when using the group finder for various reasons, and thus non subscribers are excluded from that variable and more reliably get their random dungeon finder bonuses since all non dlc dungeons can be cleared while half awake, drunk and/or high (barring coa2 maybe).

Only if they don't own the DLC, which if they are queuing for random Vets, I would assume they do.

If you are pugging Vet dungeons, you probably like dungeons enough to buy dungeon DLCs.

You are missing the point a bit. Any new player can decide they want to sub once they hit 50, at which point they are given access to vet dlc dungeons in the random pool. The assumption that most queuing for vet dungeons generally own the dlc is very naive : those that enjoy dungeons for the random bonus benefits only have little care for what dungeons they get and likewise player level has no bearing on the thought processes behind whether or not you enjoy dungeons enough to purchase dlcs.

300cp limit on vet dungeons is a step in the right direction. On live, those that value using the random dungeon finder for the bonuses are generally, fundamentally advantaged when they are not eso+ subscribers. Those that decide to sub because they enjoy the dungeon content will do so at any level and thus would add to the problem.

AlnilamE

kargen27 wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

gimpdrb14_ESO wrote: »

will eso+ members ever get the option to opt of vet dlc dungeons when we que up for randoms?

Why should we be able to? You are queuing for random. So you should randomly go into any dungeon that you have available to you.

Non eso plus subs queue for random and are ommited from dlc dungeons. The grievance being, generally, vet dlc dungeons have a very low successful clear rare when using the group finder for various reasons, and thus non subscribers are excluded from that variable and more reliably get their random dungeon finder bonuses since all non dlc dungeons can be cleared while half awake, drunk and/or high (barring coa2 maybe).

Again though, why should we be able to? They obviously can't cause they don't have the content. You have the content and you've said you want to do a Random Vet Dungeon. You should be put in the queue with the possibility of doing any of them. The rates wouldn't be so low on clears if people actually took some time to teach people how to do the fights instead of being oh look you are not CP 10k+ vote kick! Or oh you mean you died once when the healer DC'd you both suck VOTE KICK! Or my favorite, VOTE KICK! why? Dunno just bored.

Is there a reason for your hostility? All he said is that non-sub players can que for random and have an easy time. Subscribers have a harder time bc many players insta-quit or are not capable of clearing those DLC dungeons. He puts the emphasis on difficulty. You put the emphasis on the "random" part. You both have a point. No reason for poor behavior.

You can set the difficulty by queuing for a Normal Random.

And as I pointed out, most people who are queuing for a random Vet are interested enough in dungeons that they probably own the DLCs even if they are not subscribers.

No way you can know what most people are doing in the game. There is a multitude of reasons why a player who enjoys running daily randoms would not have access to the DLCs. For this issue it doesn't matter though. The simple truth is some players feel they are being penalized by subscribing to the game when it comes to running the daily randoms. There is what seems to be an easy fix that would make the game more enjoyable for those players and have minimal impact on other players in the game. So the question is why not go with that easy fix?

exeeter702 wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

gimpdrb14_ESO wrote: »

will eso+ members ever get the option to opt of vet dlc dungeons when we que up for randoms?

Why should we be able to? You are queuing for random. So you should randomly go into any dungeon that you have available to you.

Non eso plus subs queue for random and are ommited from dlc dungeons. The grievance being, generally, vet dlc dungeons have a very low successful clear rare when using the group finder for various reasons, and thus non subscribers are excluded from that variable and more reliably get their random dungeon finder bonuses since all non dlc dungeons can be cleared while half awake, drunk and/or high (barring coa2 maybe).

Again though, why should we be able to? They obviously can't cause they don't have the content. You have the content and you've said you want to do a Random Vet Dungeon. You should be put in the queue with the possibility of doing any of them. The rates wouldn't be so low on clears if people actually took some time to teach people how to do the fights instead of being oh look you are not CP 10k+ vote kick! Or oh you mean you died once when the healer DC'd you both suck VOTE KICK! Or my favorite, VOTE KICK! why? Dunno just bored.

Look man, i was pointing out the grievance, not looking for an outlet to defend player behavior for the various reasons vet dungeons often fail. It has nothing to do with teaching new players or not being elitist. Cp10 players have no business in vet dlc dungeons and zos agrees which is why the limitation is being added.

AlnilamE wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

gimpdrb14_ESO wrote: »

will eso+ members ever get the option to opt of vet dlc dungeons when we que up for randoms?

Why should we be able to? You are queuing for random. So you should randomly go into any dungeon that you have available to you.

Non eso plus subs queue for random and are ommited from dlc dungeons. The grievance being, generally, vet dlc dungeons have a very low successful clear rare when using the group finder for various reasons, and thus non subscribers are excluded from that variable and more reliably get their random dungeon finder bonuses since all non dlc dungeons can be cleared while half awake, drunk and/or high (barring coa2 maybe).

Only if they don't own the DLC, which if they are queuing for random Vets, I would assume they do.

If you are pugging Vet dungeons, you probably like dungeons enough to buy dungeon DLCs.

You are missing the point a bit. Any new player can decide they want to sub once they hit 50, at which point they are given access to vet dlc dungeons in the random pool. The assumption that most queuing for vet dungeons generally own the dlc is very naive : those that enjoy dungeons for the random bonus benefits only have little care for what dungeons they get and likewise player level has no bearing on the thought processes behind whether or not you enjoy dungeons enough to purchase dlcs.

300cp limit on vet dungeons is a step in the right direction. On live, those that value using the random dungeon finder for the bonuses are generally, fundamentally advantaged when they are not eso+ subscribers. Those that decide to sub because they enjoy the dungeon content will do so at any level and thus would add to the problem.

If you guys feel you are being penalized by running the random Vet, why not run the Random Normal? Is that not an option? How exactly do the benefits differ?

redspecter23

AlnilamE wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

gimpdrb14_ESO wrote: »

will eso+ members ever get the option to opt of vet dlc dungeons when we que up for randoms?

Why should we be able to? You are queuing for random. So you should randomly go into any dungeon that you have available to you.

Non eso plus subs queue for random and are ommited from dlc dungeons. The grievance being, generally, vet dlc dungeons have a very low successful clear rare when using the group finder for various reasons, and thus non subscribers are excluded from that variable and more reliably get their random dungeon finder bonuses since all non dlc dungeons can be cleared while half awake, drunk and/or high (barring coa2 maybe).

Again though, why should we be able to? They obviously can't cause they don't have the content. You have the content and you've said you want to do a Random Vet Dungeon. You should be put in the queue with the possibility of doing any of them. The rates wouldn't be so low on clears if people actually took some time to teach people how to do the fights instead of being oh look you are not CP 10k+ vote kick! Or oh you mean you died once when the healer DC'd you both suck VOTE KICK! Or my favorite, VOTE KICK! why? Dunno just bored.

Is there a reason for your hostility? All he said is that non-sub players can que for random and have an easy time. Subscribers have a harder time bc many players insta-quit or are not capable of clearing those DLC dungeons. He puts the emphasis on difficulty. You put the emphasis on the "random" part. You both have a point. No reason for poor behavior.

You can set the difficulty by queuing for a Normal Random.

And as I pointed out, most people who are queuing for a random Vet are interested enough in dungeons that they probably own the DLCs even if they are not subscribers.

No way you can know what most people are doing in the game. There is a multitude of reasons why a player who enjoys running daily randoms would not have access to the DLCs. For this issue it doesn't matter though. The simple truth is some players feel they are being penalized by subscribing to the game when it comes to running the daily randoms. There is what seems to be an easy fix that would make the game more enjoyable for those players and have minimal impact on other players in the game. So the question is why not go with that easy fix?

exeeter702 wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

gimpdrb14_ESO wrote: »

will eso+ members ever get the option to opt of vet dlc dungeons when we que up for randoms?

Why should we be able to? You are queuing for random. So you should randomly go into any dungeon that you have available to you.

Non eso plus subs queue for random and are ommited from dlc dungeons. The grievance being, generally, vet dlc dungeons have a very low successful clear rare when using the group finder for various reasons, and thus non subscribers are excluded from that variable and more reliably get their random dungeon finder bonuses since all non dlc dungeons can be cleared while half awake, drunk and/or high (barring coa2 maybe).

Again though, why should we be able to? They obviously can't cause they don't have the content. You have the content and you've said you want to do a Random Vet Dungeon. You should be put in the queue with the possibility of doing any of them. The rates wouldn't be so low on clears if people actually took some time to teach people how to do the fights instead of being oh look you are not CP 10k+ vote kick! Or oh you mean you died once when the healer DC'd you both suck VOTE KICK! Or my favorite, VOTE KICK! why? Dunno just bored.

Look man, i was pointing out the grievance, not looking for an outlet to defend player behavior for the various reasons vet dungeons often fail. It has nothing to do with teaching new players or not being elitist. Cp10 players have no business in vet dlc dungeons and zos agrees which is why the limitation is being added.

AlnilamE wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

gimpdrb14_ESO wrote: »

will eso+ members ever get the option to opt of vet dlc dungeons when we que up for randoms?

Why should we be able to? You are queuing for random. So you should randomly go into any dungeon that you have available to you.

Non eso plus subs queue for random and are ommited from dlc dungeons. The grievance being, generally, vet dlc dungeons have a very low successful clear rare when using the group finder for various reasons, and thus non subscribers are excluded from that variable and more reliably get their random dungeon finder bonuses since all non dlc dungeons can be cleared while half awake, drunk and/or high (barring coa2 maybe).

Only if they don't own the DLC, which if they are queuing for random Vets, I would assume they do.

If you are pugging Vet dungeons, you probably like dungeons enough to buy dungeon DLCs.

You are missing the point a bit. Any new player can decide they want to sub once they hit 50, at which point they are given access to vet dlc dungeons in the random pool. The assumption that most queuing for vet dungeons generally own the dlc is very naive : those that enjoy dungeons for the random bonus benefits only have little care for what dungeons they get and likewise player level has no bearing on the thought processes behind whether or not you enjoy dungeons enough to purchase dlcs.

300cp limit on vet dungeons is a step in the right direction. On live, those that value using the random dungeon finder for the bonuses are generally, fundamentally advantaged when they are not eso+ subscribers. Those that decide to sub because they enjoy the dungeon content will do so at any level and thus would add to the problem.

If you guys feel you are being penalized by running the random Vet, why not run the Random Normal? Is that not an option? How exactly do the benefits differ?

The point still stands, though to a lesser extent. Non DLC normals are just plain faster than DLC normals. Those without the sub/DLC are still rewarded with faster completions of their random dailies. It's not a git gud problem. It's a penalty for those that actually sub. Why should those that sub and pay money have a harder/slower time completing content? It's not that it can't be done, it's that it can be done more efficiently if you choose to not pay ZOS money. It's kind of like pay to lose.

Gythral

It's not gonna happen, as like a lot of things, an EGO would get bruised if it did!

Adernath

I am against it, because it would literally mean every rodent just queue for the non-DLCs, which means that I will never, or very very rarely, get a DLC random vet.

Just learn the mechanics, teach people if possible, and have a nice and enjoyable dungeon. You have to work for your XP. If you just want a fast run, get some friends who know the dungeon.

Mureel

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

gimpdrb14_ESO wrote: »

will eso+ members ever get the option to opt of vet dlc dungeons when we que up for randoms?

Why should we be able to? You are queuing for random. So you should randomly go into any dungeon that you have available to you.

Because it makes zero sense for random vet to include the entire gamut of the old, easy dungeons to the newest which the people asking for this are glad to admit that they know they *cannot* do.

Most people just cannot pug scale/fang for example - because they don't know what to do.

To put people through that who DO know, and those who DO NOT is just a bad scene for all involved.

If they made the daily randoms Base dungeons only, it would be better all around.

This way, everyone could complete their random but if you wanted specifically a certain dlc one, you could queue for it.

Chilly-McFreeze

Adernath wrote: »

I am against it, because it would literally mean every rodent just queue for the non-DLCs, which means that I will never, or very very rarely, get a DLC random vet.

Just learn the mechanics, teach people if possible, and have a nice and enjoyable dungeon. You have to work for your XP. If you just want a fast run, get some friends who know the dungeon.

So what you basically say is:
I want to pug vet DLCs.
If you can't pug it -> git gud and l2p
If you want to clean it fast -> get friends

May I ask why you want to pug vet dlcs instead of running them with friends?

AlnilamE

Mureel wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

gimpdrb14_ESO wrote: »

will eso+ members ever get the option to opt of vet dlc dungeons when we que up for randoms?

Why should we be able to? You are queuing for random. So you should randomly go into any dungeon that you have available to you.

Because it makes zero sense for random vet to include the entire gamut of the old, easy dungeons to the newest which the people asking for this are glad to admit that they know they *cannot* do.

Most people just cannot pug scale/fang for example - because they don't know what to do.

To put people through that who DO know, and those who DO NOT is just a bad scene for all involved.

If they made the daily randoms Base dungeons only, it would be better all around.

This way, everyone could complete their random but if you wanted specifically a certain dlc one, you could queue for it.

You are missing the point of the Random Dungeon though.

You are trading an XP bonus (and a mailed item) for filling up a group that queued for a specific dungeon. You are trying to make it harder for people who want to run DLC dungeons to complete their groups via the group finder, while still getting your sweet XP and mailed item.

So how about we meet in the middle: Queuing only for non-DLC dungeons grants you half the XP and no mail.

Chilly-McFreeze

AlnilamE wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

gimpdrb14_ESO wrote: »

will eso+ members ever get the option to opt of vet dlc dungeons when we que up for randoms?

Why should we be able to? You are queuing for random. So you should randomly go into any dungeon that you have available to you.

Because it makes zero sense for random vet to include the entire gamut of the old, easy dungeons to the newest which the people asking for this are glad to admit that they know they *cannot* do.

Most people just cannot pug scale/fang for example - because they don't know what to do.

To put people through that who DO know, and those who DO NOT is just a bad scene for all involved.

If they made the daily randoms Base dungeons only, it would be better all around.

This way, everyone could complete their random but if you wanted specifically a certain dlc one, you could queue for it.

You are missing the point of the Random Dungeon though.

You are trading an XP bonus (and a mailed item) for filling up a group that queued for a specific dungeon. You are trying to make it harder for people who want to run DLC dungeons to complete their groups via the group finder, while still getting your sweet XP and mailed item.

So how about we meet in the middle: Queuing only for non-DLC dungeons grants you half the XP and no mail.

Why a middle thing? If someone doesn't own DLCs he still gets an easy vet dungeon with no "middle ground penalty"

Mureel

AlnilamE wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

gimpdrb14_ESO wrote: »

will eso+ members ever get the option to opt of vet dlc dungeons when we que up for randoms?

Why should we be able to? You are queuing for random. So you should randomly go into any dungeon that you have available to you.

Because it makes zero sense for random vet to include the entire gamut of the old, easy dungeons to the newest which the people asking for this are glad to admit that they know they *cannot* do.

Most people just cannot pug scale/fang for example - because they don't know what to do.

To put people through that who DO know, and those who DO NOT is just a bad scene for all involved.

If they made the daily randoms Base dungeons only, it would be better all around.

This way, everyone could complete their random but if you wanted specifically a certain dlc one, you could queue for it.

You are missing the point of the Random Dungeon though.

You are trading an XP bonus (and a mailed item) for filling up a group that queued for a specific dungeon. You are trying to make it harder for people who want to run DLC dungeons to complete their groups via the group finder, while still getting your sweet XP and mailed item.

So how about we meet in the middle: Queuing only for non-DLC dungeons grants you half the XP and no mail.

O idc :-) I was only advocating for why people may want to opt out.

I pug all the time and don't care - I like the challenge.

But then- except for VAS+2 I have every difficult pve ach in game, several on more than one char.

I have 790 sth cp on NA and 730sth on EU. Is really not a 'thing' for me personally.

So really- it's about the point that today's dungeons are loads harder than their predecessors due to power creep.

:-)

Mureel

@AlnilamE further to the above: it's also not that nice for people who can easily do the content to have to be grouped with people who have no idea of mechanics, never been to even normal, etc.

It's a double edged sword, and as such - cuts both ways.

Me? I have no pony in this race - and I'll always do randoms just because and I'll help as best I can, and I never just leave group unless I run out of time in real life.

As I say; I like the challenge and the feeling of people getting a complete when they never were there. I love that!

As I have a lot of experience in pugging, I find that people who are 'concerned' they 'don't have it' tend to bail on the group far more often than people who could do the same with ease.

Sure there are some 'leets' who like to be annoying but mainly, people are cool.

AlnilamE

Yeah, but sometimes you have to bash your head against a boss a few times until you figure it out.

I remember when I went into my first Vet dungeon. Banished Cells. I think I was Vet 3 at the time and the dungeon was Vet 5.

Our tank that was leading us was very experienced and he just had us keep trying until we managed to finish it and it was awesome.

I have a friend who a few months ago decided he was going to farm Mazzatun for the motif pages for his crafters. he spent his days queuing for both vet and normal. Sometimes he spent several hours in there without a completion, but he wouldn't get up. He figured if someone didn't teach players how to run it, he would never find groups able to do it.

He new finished the Mazzatun motif and moved on to Cradle of Shadows.

kargen27

AlnilamE wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

gimpdrb14_ESO wrote: »

will eso+ members ever get the option to opt of vet dlc dungeons when we que up for randoms?

Why should we be able to? You are queuing for random. So you should randomly go into any dungeon that you have available to you.

Non eso plus subs queue for random and are ommited from dlc dungeons. The grievance being, generally, vet dlc dungeons have a very low successful clear rare when using the group finder for various reasons, and thus non subscribers are excluded from that variable and more reliably get their random dungeon finder bonuses since all non dlc dungeons can be cleared while half awake, drunk and/or high (barring coa2 maybe).

Again though, why should we be able to? They obviously can't cause they don't have the content. You have the content and you've said you want to do a Random Vet Dungeon. You should be put in the queue with the possibility of doing any of them. The rates wouldn't be so low on clears if people actually took some time to teach people how to do the fights instead of being oh look you are not CP 10k+ vote kick! Or oh you mean you died once when the healer DC'd you both suck VOTE KICK! Or my favorite, VOTE KICK! why? Dunno just bored.

Is there a reason for your hostility? All he said is that non-sub players can que for random and have an easy time. Subscribers have a harder time bc many players insta-quit or are not capable of clearing those DLC dungeons. He puts the emphasis on difficulty. You put the emphasis on the "random" part. You both have a point. No reason for poor behavior.

You can set the difficulty by queuing for a Normal Random.

And as I pointed out, most people who are queuing for a random Vet are interested enough in dungeons that they probably own the DLCs even if they are not subscribers.

No way you can know what most people are doing in the game. There is a multitude of reasons why a player who enjoys running daily randoms would not have access to the DLCs. For this issue it doesn't matter though. The simple truth is some players feel they are being penalized by subscribing to the game when it comes to running the daily randoms. There is what seems to be an easy fix that would make the game more enjoyable for those players and have minimal impact on other players in the game. So the question is why not go with that easy fix?

exeeter702 wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

gimpdrb14_ESO wrote: »

will eso+ members ever get the option to opt of vet dlc dungeons when we que up for randoms?

Why should we be able to? You are queuing for random. So you should randomly go into any dungeon that you have available to you.

Non eso plus subs queue for random and are ommited from dlc dungeons. The grievance being, generally, vet dlc dungeons have a very low successful clear rare when using the group finder for various reasons, and thus non subscribers are excluded from that variable and more reliably get their random dungeon finder bonuses since all non dlc dungeons can be cleared while half awake, drunk and/or high (barring coa2 maybe).

Again though, why should we be able to? They obviously can't cause they don't have the content. You have the content and you've said you want to do a Random Vet Dungeon. You should be put in the queue with the possibility of doing any of them. The rates wouldn't be so low on clears if people actually took some time to teach people how to do the fights instead of being oh look you are not CP 10k+ vote kick! Or oh you mean you died once when the healer DC'd you both suck VOTE KICK! Or my favorite, VOTE KICK! why? Dunno just bored.

Look man, i was pointing out the grievance, not looking for an outlet to defend player behavior for the various reasons vet dungeons often fail. It has nothing to do with teaching new players or not being elitist. Cp10 players have no business in vet dlc dungeons and zos agrees which is why the limitation is being added.

AlnilamE wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

gimpdrb14_ESO wrote: »

will eso+ members ever get the option to opt of vet dlc dungeons when we que up for randoms?

Why should we be able to? You are queuing for random. So you should randomly go into any dungeon that you have available to you.

Non eso plus subs queue for random and are ommited from dlc dungeons. The grievance being, generally, vet dlc dungeons have a very low successful clear rare when using the group finder for various reasons, and thus non subscribers are excluded from that variable and more reliably get their random dungeon finder bonuses since all non dlc dungeons can be cleared while half awake, drunk and/or high (barring coa2 maybe).

Only if they don't own the DLC, which if they are queuing for random Vets, I would assume they do.

If you are pugging Vet dungeons, you probably like dungeons enough to buy dungeon DLCs.

You are missing the point a bit. Any new player can decide they want to sub once they hit 50, at which point they are given access to vet dlc dungeons in the random pool. The assumption that most queuing for vet dungeons generally own the dlc is very naive : those that enjoy dungeons for the random bonus benefits only have little care for what dungeons they get and likewise player level has no bearing on the thought processes behind whether or not you enjoy dungeons enough to purchase dlcs.

300cp limit on vet dungeons is a step in the right direction. On live, those that value using the random dungeon finder for the bonuses are generally, fundamentally advantaged when they are not eso+ subscribers. Those that decide to sub because they enjoy the dungeon content will do so at any level and thus would add to the problem.

If you guys feel you are being penalized by running the random Vet, why not run the Random Normal? Is that not an option? How exactly do the benefits differ?

It is an option and there is no difference in the rewards as far as doing a normal is concerned. I can't speak for others, only myself. I recently hit 1000 CP and have characters I don't mind running through any content in the game. I also have characters that have no business being in vet DLC dungeons quite yet. I want to get them there though. Personally I think the 300 CP thing is a bad fix. CP really is no indication of a players skills on that particular character it only means they have been playing the game for a while. A better solution would be to allow players to opt out of the DLC content if they wish. The opposite is sometimes also true. There are some players that are not at 300CP yet that can thrive in the vet DLC dungeons. It doesn't seem fair to lock them out of content they are ready for simply because other players their level might not be ready.

The reason I like the idea is this. Normal dungeons most of the time are a walk in the park. Feed a few pigeons and be done with it. If you get queued with new players there could be a bit of a challenge but usually not. I have characters that are ready to step up to the vet dungeons but are going to struggle and maybe even have to be carried some if a DLC comes up. Being able to opt out of the DLC dungeons gives kind of a middle tier of difficulty. Normal is to easy but a DLC is almost certain not going to be finished. I don't mind not finishing but when it is my fault I feel bad for the other players. I used to offer to come in on another character that I am more comfortable with but that more often than I care for just gets me grief about why didn't I use that character to start. So for me personally it would be more fun on the characters I haven't quite figured out yet if I could do a random vet and not get the DLC. I wouldn't mind if I didn't get the reward but others might.

For those who do want to run the vet DLC I think they are looking at it the wrong way. Sure it might take a bit longer to get the group together but that group would be people that want to run the DLC content meaning they are probably prepared to do so successfully. As it is now there is a decent chance someone in your group is going to bail as soon as they see it is a DLC dungeon. Others might bail out part way through either because they can't handle the content or it seems more often the case because the group isn't good/fast enough for a player that is used to blazing the content.

Many of my characters I would queue with all dungeons available. A few I would queue without the DLC dungeons if that were a choice. As it is now I go in and select several dungeons because the rewards and XP don't matter to me. Still it would be much easier to just hit one button to opt out of the DLC dungeons than have to go to the list and pick and choose. I think the change would make a lot of players happy and really wouldn't affect other players much at all.

Mureel

AlnilamE wrote: »

Yeah, but sometimes you have to bash your head against a boss a few times until you figure it out.

I remember when I went into my first Vet dungeon. Banished Cells. I think I was Vet 3 at the time and the dungeon was Vet 5.

Our tank that was leading us was very experienced and he just had us keep trying until we managed to finish it and it was awesome.

I have a friend who a few months ago decided he was going to farm Mazzatun for the motif pages for his crafters. he spent his days queuing for both vet and normal. Sometimes he spent several hours in there without a completion, but he wouldn't get up. He figured if someone didn't teach players how to run it, he would never find groups able to do it.

He new finished the Mazzatun motif and moved on to Cradle of Shadows.

@AlnilamE
That's cool and all; but that's literally such a small % of players.

I'm the same in that I'll stay and help and even switch roles/chars if need be- but not everyone appreciates that.

Furthermore, the same can be done by queueing only that dlc you want to complete, and likely even more quickly.

exeeter702

Mureel wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

gimpdrb14_ESO wrote: »

will eso+ members ever get the option to opt of vet dlc dungeons when we que up for randoms?

Why should we be able to? You are queuing for random. So you should randomly go into any dungeon that you have available to you.

Because it makes zero sense for random vet to include the entire gamut of the old, easy dungeons to the newest which the people asking for this are glad to admit that they know they *cannot* do.

Most people just cannot pug scale/fang for example - because they don't know what to do.

To put people through that who DO know, and those who DO NOT is just a bad scene for all involved.

If they made the daily randoms Base dungeons only, it would be better all around.

This way, everyone could complete their random but if you wanted specifically a certain dlc one, you could queue for it.

You are missing the point of the Random Dungeon though.

You are trading an XP bonus (and a mailed item) for filling up a group that queued for a specific dungeon. You are trying to make it harder for people who want to run DLC dungeons to complete their groups via the group finder, while still getting your sweet XP and mailed item.

So how about we meet in the middle: Queuing only for non-DLC dungeons grants you half the XP and no mail.

O idc :-) I was only advocating for why people may want to opt out.

I pug all the time and don't care - I like the challenge.

But then- except for VAS+2 I have every difficult pve ach in game, several on more than one char.

I have 790 sth cp on NA and 730sth on EU. Is really not a 'thing' for me personally.

So really- it's about the point that today's dungeons are loads harder than their predecessors due to power creep.

:-)

Same here, i can understand the sentiment, for me personally its of no consequence, i pug all the time.

exeeter702

Mureel wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

gimpdrb14_ESO wrote: »

will eso+ members ever get the option to opt of vet dlc dungeons when we que up for randoms?

Why should we be able to? You are queuing for random. So you should randomly go into any dungeon that you have available to you.

Because it makes zero sense for random vet to include the entire gamut of the old, easy dungeons to the newest which the people asking for this are glad to admit that they know they *cannot* do.

Most people just cannot pug scale/fang for example - because they don't know what to do.

To put people through that who DO know, and those who DO NOT is just a bad scene for all involved.

If they made the daily randoms Base dungeons only, it would be better all around.

This way, everyone could complete their random but if you wanted specifically a certain dlc one, you could queue for it.

You are missing the point of the Random Dungeon though.

You are trading an XP bonus (and a mailed item) for filling up a group that queued for a specific dungeon. You are trying to make it harder for people who want to run DLC dungeons to complete their groups via the group finder, while still getting your sweet XP and mailed item.

So how about we meet in the middle: Queuing only for non-DLC dungeons grants you half the XP and no mail.

O idc :-) I was only advocating for why people may want to opt out.

I pug all the time and don't care - I like the challenge.

But then- except for VAS+2 I have every difficult pve ach in game, several on more than one char.

I have 790 sth cp on NA and 730sth on EU. Is really not a 'thing' for me personally.

So really- it's about the point that today's dungeons are loads harder than their predecessors due to power creep.

:-)

Same here, i can understand the sentiment though. For me personally its of no consequence, i pug all the time.

exeeter702

We are now reaching the point where an adequate amount of unique dlc dungeons are in the game that it shouldnt be beyond the realm if possibility for zos to place VET dlc dungeons into their own queue and lock the queue behind 300 cp (the later they are already happening come summerset). And obviosuly you would turm the rewards up a notch ie more trans geodes, extra key, addition mail rewards, something of that nature. Gaining access to the queue requires eso plus or possession of all the dungeon dlcs (likely a tough sell, but a nice incentive for max level players to possibly subscribe.

The best approach imo.

Stewart1874

I really think the difficulty gap needs closed. There is too much of a gap in difficulty between normal vet and DLC vet. The fact that invariably you cannot do a vet dlc dungeon with a PUG is ridiculous and very off-putting.

IMO difficulty of non-dlc dungeons needs upped considerably whilst DLC dungeons needs dropped a bit and maybe have prompts which explain mechanics of certain bosses for clarity.

I've barely cleared any vet dlc dungeons because people I played with quit and finding people willing to do challenging content is ... well.. challenging .

Something needs done here.