Summerset P2W?

SoggyBizkit

Friend of mine has decided he’s not getting the next expansion as it’s P2W. As much as I want to disagree with him I am finding he has some very valid points. The main 2 being you will be able to purchase jewellery crafting research scrolls allowing you to max out researching far quicker than the base game did all those years ago. This in turn will allow you to craft and make money quicker then anyone else not prepared to spend real money. This is something I can handle but there is some truth to what he says.

Next is the biggest problem for him and now myself. We both liked to play mostly pvp and now there’s a serparate skill line locked behind a pay wall. What happens when someone is killed by this said skill line ? We have all seen there’s a few skills people will be using and to good effect in pvp. So now to him the game has become P2W.

I can understand his point and I will be loosing a friend to this. I understand NEW content should be locked behind pay walls etc but a whole skill line seems pretty harsh to people who don’t have the money. I myself still haven’t completed any imperial city, thieves guild, dragon bones or clockwork city content so summerset is only back logging my content further. I’m in two minds whether to purchase summerset or not.

Enslaved

I cant say that its not P2W 100% and I see point when ppl QQ about it. I preordered it but some of points your friend and similar ppl have are valid.

Sting864

SoggyBizkit wrote: »

Friend of mine has decided he’s not getting the next expansion as it’s P2W. As much as I want to disagree with him I am finding he has some very valid points. The main 2 being you will be able to purchase jewellery crafting research scrolls allowing you to max out researching far quicker than the base game did all those years ago. This in turn will allow you to craft and make money quicker then anyone else not prepared to spend real money. This is something I can handle but there is some truth to what he says.

Next is the biggest problem for him and now myself. We both liked to play mostly pvp and now there’s a serparate skill line locked behind a pay wall. What happens when someone is killed by this said skill line ? We have all seen there’s a few skills people will be using and to good effect in pvp. So now to him the game has become P2W.

I can understand his point and I will be loosing a friend to this. I understand NEW content should be locked behind pay walls etc but a whole skill line seems pretty harsh to people who don’t have the money. I myself still haven’t completed any imperial city, thieves guild, dragon bones or clockwork city content so summerset is only back logging my content further. I’m in two minds whether to purchase summerset or not.

By his definition, VVardenfell was P2W too, right?? Because you got the whole new class that *SHOCKER* you had to buy the next chapter to get...

MLGProPlayer

I guess WoW, GW2, and FFXIV are P2W games too then. In fact, according to your logic, there is no such thing as a non-P2W MMO!

Linaleah

1. being able to research sets faster is nice and all, however... the biggest money is not going to be in selling crafted jewelry. the biggest money is going to be in selling upgrade mats (and well regular mats), becasue they are incredibly rare and grindy. and those you can get without having summerset as seams are spawning everywhere.

2. if adding a new skill line is pay to win, then every MMO EVER that doesn't have free expansions - is pay to win. becasue all of them do something of this nature, whether its crafting profession or a whole new class or a skill line and what note.. this is pretty normal. heck.. in most MMO's - expansion means level bump, which means anyone without it - is completely locked out of the end game.

as far as i know, they deliberately made psijic skill line to be good enough to want to pursue but NOT game-breaking and absolute must to have.

DieAlteHexe

I still wonder what is "winning" in an MMO. Given the evolution even is one managed to do ALL the content, be über in all the dungeons etc., Emperor etc. along will come an update and off we go again.

zaria

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

I guess WoW, GW2, and FFXIV are P2W games too then. In fact, according to your logic, there is no such thing as a non-P2W MMO!

This, note that in WOW the level cap increases with each expansion and you need the expansion to even touch the new endgame.

Rohamad_Ali

Most games have p2w elements now . It never ends . Somethings that took early players a year to do can be finished on MasterCard and Visa now .

essi2

It's not P2W because you aren't winning anything by getting Summerset.

It's an expansion, with expansion features. Stop crying about it.

Peekachu99

When a lvl 120 character in WoW, fully geared, obliterates a level 110 who doesn’t have the latest expansion, is that pay to win? No, that’s just a current xpac subscriber playing someone who hasn’t kept current with content. The end.

What is with people expecting literally everything for free? Did you really expect to buy the game once and never spend another dime? How can development be supported that way?

fierackas

It used to be the case that there was no such thing as 'winning' in role playing games.

Oakmontowls_ESO

As someone who has already preordered summerset and will do the same for the next expansion, you will need this expansion to be competitive in pve. Transmitting existing set jewelry is still locked behind summerset so if any of the new traits become bis you are out of luck. Also for stam dps and heals, the new sets will be bis assuming no big changes are made to them. Magika dps will also swap from using trap beast to accelerate which is one of the new psijic skills.
However, this isn't necessarily a bad thing. The best gear has previously been locked behind dlc. The only thing new is that we have a combat oriented skill tree locked behind a pay wall. Without new content that is worth the effort to obtain, there is little reason to buy the newest dlc or chapter.

Xoelarasizerer

1. Researching jewellery traits faster =/= being better in PvP, you can still buy new jewellery with new traits from players or guild stores if you don't buy Summerset.

2. The Psijic skill line isn't going to be solely responsible for people in PvP winning battles they may usually lose. There are interesting and very useful skills added, but none of which will be necessary for a good enough player that uses other skills like the ones currently in the actual game. Adding Psijic block shield, combo orbs and Undo to your build wont make you invincible. This logic is probably why the Warden is considered such a weak DD class and the Bear is a bad Ultimate for end game... despite being a badass bear buddy. Stop.

Ilithyania

Is VMA weapons also pay to win? VMA weapons is also behind a paywall.

is benefits by being ESO plus p2w ?

Ratzkifal

Like others already said, if Summerset is P2W because of its skill line, then so was Morrowind. If you want to make that arguement then other DLCs were also pay to win. You can't get that BiS Molag Kena when you don't own IC. It's really a strange line to draw, but I get where he's coming from.
In my opinion the research scrolls are pay to win and taking the dedication out of being a crafter, but ZOS seems to prefer craft-your-own-gear crafting to craft-for-your-friends. So from that point of view the scrolls are "alright", since autonomy is the ideal and research is for the most part a matter of time.

Zhaedri

Warden is locked behind a paywall, that's three skill lines. What happens now when you get killed in PVP with it?

Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood are also locked behind paywalls, what happens when someone who has them has an advantage over someone that doesn't?

Skill lines tied to DLC/Expansions are nothing new in this game. They are part of the DLC/Expac content. Does your friend also have issues with having to purchase the DLC/Expac to access the zone and quest content? The skill lines are just another part of the DLC/Expac content.

Get it, or don't get it, but calling it P2W is absurd. Of course you have to purchase the content to win. This is like calling Mass Effect (or any other game) P2W because you have to purchase it to play.

As to the research scrolls, I am sure they will be in crown crates and there will be an event or two where free crates are available. Save up gems from those and purchase them. Or not. The crown scrolls are just easy-buttons really. Is there also an issue with people purchasing riding training? It also saves them time and gives them an advantage to get it done faster than those who do not.

I am sure the Master Writ turn in merchant dude will have smaller ones (1 day) scrolls for the same 3 writ vouchers as the rest, and they will be available on guild traders for the usual 3-5k each. You can still cut down your research time with those.

zaria

essi2 wrote: »

It's not P2W because you aren't winning anything by getting Summerset.

It's an expansion, with expansion features. Stop crying about it.

This, any mmo who want to grow or even maintain its population has to have updates.
This cost money to produce so obviosly you need to pay for them at least in an game without sub, however even sub mmo has paid expansions.
Obviously the expansion would have to have some stuff who is better than existing or it would be pretty pointless outside of quests and achievements.

SoggyBizkit

I would like just like to be clear I pre ordered summerset the moment it came avaible and I will still be playing. A few people keep quoting other mmo’s like wow and their dlc. Yeh sure they have new races and classes with expansions but that’s expected.
What my friend is talking about is something different. A serparate skill line which can be used by any class/race and which will have a skill bis for pve/pvp.

Someone who hasn’t purchased summerset which will still play pvp May feel differently when they are killed by a skill from the Psijic order.

Derra

SoggyBizkit wrote: »

I would like just like to be clear I pre ordered summerset the moment it came avaible and I will still be playing. A few people keep quoting other mmo’s like wow and their dlc. Yeh sure they have new races and classes with expansions but that’s expected.
What my friend is talking about is something different. A serparate skill line which can be used by any class/race and which will have a skill bis for pve/pvp.

Someone who hasn’t purchased summerset which will still play pvp May feel differently when they are killed by a skill from the Psijic order.

Someone who doesn´t buy an expansion in different games won´t even be able to reach caplevel anymore.

Imo saying a skillline is p2w compared to that is absolute bogus.

hydrocynus

OP if he were a true friend he would give you his stuff.

But besides that I think you can learn a life lesson here and that is that money makes the world go round. Those with it are better off than those that don't. Not much in life is free and in most cases you get what you pay for. And over and above everything else, it most definitely is not fair

Heka Cain

I concur!

Feanor

If anything, it’s pay to grind most likely.

jaschacasadiob16_ESO

You don't really need jewelry to make gold in ESO.

And you don't even need to spend hours farming.
I pity people spending hours in Rivenspire trying to get some Necropotence to sell (the /zone is flooded with supply anyway). Just do dungeons, deconstruct and sell mastic/solvent.

Speaking of PvP. Well, 90% of the Cyrodill population is like casual. They go down with a couple of LA/FP. No need for the Psijic skill line.

Juju_beans

It's not p2w. It's called new content in an expansion of the current game...something every MMO has and does.

This is not a static game. MMO's evolve and introduce new classes, skills, etc. with each expansion.

Sparr0w

As long as they don't lock Master Angler behind the expansion then it's not P2W

zaria

SoggyBizkit wrote: »

I would like just like to be clear I pre ordered summerset the moment it came avaible and I will still be playing. A few people keep quoting other mmo’s like wow and their dlc. Yeh sure they have new races and classes with expansions but that’s expected.
What my friend is talking about is something different. A serparate skill line which can be used by any class/race and which will have a skill bis for pve/pvp.

Someone who hasn’t purchased summerset which will still play pvp May feel differently when they are killed by a skill from the Psijic order.

Most MMO increase level cap with expansion, in wow just 5 levels increase dps a lot, probably double it.
The new expansion include an new zone with new dungeons for the new level the questing gear you get is better than your raiding gear.
In short you are not longer playing endgame, you can not touch it.
In ESO you can still pvp in cyrodil and do the craglorn trials with just the base game.

klowdy1

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

I guess WoW, GW2, and FFXIV are P2W games too then. In fact, according to your logic, there is no such thing as a non-P2W MMO!

Base game is P2W. It's impossible to help the prophet without paying for the game. I am so mad I had to buy the base game. Also, DLC, crafting bag, horse style competitions, and having more than one outfit is P2W. I want everything for free, and I also want the devs to continue to make updates without money rolling in, since everything is free now.

Luigi_Vampa

People take video games too seriously. ESO isn't a competitive e-sport. You aren't playing for money. This isn't that serious. What are you winning exactly? Surely you have died in PvP before. Unless the new skill line makes it impossible to kill that player using it, what is the big deal?

This is all I have to say to people who complain about the game; if you are not having fun, stop playing. Life is too short to waste your time playing a game you don't enjoy. Games are entertainment. If they don't bring you joy or entertain you at all, they are absolutely worthless.

Raraaku

I would argue that the first point you're making isn't pay to win, it's paying to get rich. Being able to craft max jewelry sooner than others is a very limited, and fleeting, advantage.

As for the Psijic Order skill line, while there are some useful utility skills that can be used within PvP, I don't see any of them being a real "game changer" in Cyrodiil. Useful? Sure, but they're nearly all survival skills, not damage dealing skills. The most powerful skill in that line for PvP has a 1.5 second cast and takes an additional 3 seconds for it to take full effect.

So I wouldn't worry about Summerset being p2w, I would say that people had much better grounds to argue Morrowind being p2w with the addition of an entire new class than with Summerset.

OGLezard

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Like others already said, if Summerset is P2W because of its skill line, then so was Morrowind. If you want to make that arguement then other DLCs were also pay to win. You can't get that BiS Molag Kena when you don't own IC. It's really a strange line to draw, but I get where he's coming from.
In my opinion the research scrolls are pay to win and taking the dedication out of being a crafter, but ZOS seems to prefer craft-your-own-gear crafting to craft-for-your-friends. So from that point of view the scrolls are "alright", since autonomy is the ideal and research is for the most part a matter of time.

Golden vendor?

swirve

Pay 2 Whine?

You can do that for free...