Does anyone still use thief mundus?

NewFordOrder

Have all dps switched to warrior, and are they likely to switch to lover after summerset?

usmcjdking

There are a few instances in which Thief will do more work than Warrior/Apprentice. It's tied directly to your build, though. FOr thief to do better than either of those other do you need a dmg stacking build that lowers the overall effectiveness of Warrior/Apprentice.

Banana

Lover.

firedrgn

Seems like wd might be less important over all so lover might be the best bang for the buck.

WeylandLabs

I have to as a Dot Stam Sorc yes I do... Crit means heals for me btw.

WrathOfInnos

It's hard to beat Warrior for stamina DPS, since you have several multipliers on weapon damage. For Magicka DPS, there are definitely cases where thief beats apprentice.

In Summerset, thief is becoming more effective since Magicka builds are getting minor force through the Psijic skill line. Apprentice, on the other hand, is getting an indirect nerf since light and heavy attacks will scale less from spell damage and more from Magicka.

I think one of the main reasons nobody uses thief right now is because it combines poorly with Mechanical Acuity, which is the best set for a lot of builds.

JinMori

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

It's hard to beat Warrior for stamina DPS, since you have several multipliers on weapon damage. For Magicka DPS, there are definitely cases where thief beats apprentice.

In Summerset, thief is becoming more effective since Magicka builds are getting minor force through the Psijic skill line. Apprentice, on the other hand, is getting an indirect nerf since light and heavy attacks will scale less from spell damage and more from Magicka.

I think one of the main reasons nobody uses thief right now is because it combines poorly with Mechanical Acuity, which is the best set for a lot of builds.

Sometimes ago i did some calculations, that resulted in apprentice dealing more damage then thief even with 90 % crit modifier and 50 % base crit.

Apprentice is just better right now

MLGProPlayer

Warrior/Apprentice for group content. Lover for solo.

WrathOfInnos

JinMori wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

It's hard to beat Warrior for stamina DPS, since you have several multipliers on weapon damage. For Magicka DPS, there are definitely cases where thief beats apprentice.

In Summerset, thief is becoming more effective since Magicka builds are getting minor force through the Psijic skill line. Apprentice, on the other hand, is getting an indirect nerf since light and heavy attacks will scale less from spell damage and more from Magicka.

I think one of the main reasons nobody uses thief right now is because it combines poorly with Mechanical Acuity, which is the best set for a lot of builds.

Sometimes ago i did some calculations, that resulted in apprentice dealing more damage then thief even with 90 % crit modifier and 50 % base crit.

Apprentice is just better right now

I'm not sure about Live, but I was just looking into this for Summerset on PTS. Using a mag sorc with pets as an example. Wearing 5X Necropotence, 5X Mantle of Sriroria, and 2X Ilambris I can get buffed Max Magicka to about 50k and Spell Damage over 4k (don't have the exact values in front of me at the moment, feel free to double check). With these stats, the 362 x 1.25 = 452 spell damage from the Apprentice Stone adds at most 5.1% damage.

This build sits at 41.9% spell crit, or 44.9% buffed. The 10.7% from the Thief Stone brings this to 55.6% spell crit. With a crit damage multiplier of 1.86 (full uptime minor force, 40% uptime major force, 20% from elfborn CP), this results in a DPS increase of 6.6%.

Now the other thing to consider when comparing these two mundus stones, is that the Thief increases both pet damage and weapon enchant procs. The Apprentice does not affect either of these portions of your damage.

Not sure if the specific case I've listed will actually be an optimal build next patch, just wanted to give one example of a case where Thief is almost certainly better than Apprentice.

fred4

Well, I'm guessing the OP is referring to min/maxed RAID PvE. For dungeons or PvP, on the other hand, I run Thief on my warden, who I can respec between a PvP stamden and a PvP/PvE hybrid DD health tank with just a gear change. Anything non-meta / slightly hybrid, that does not use Pelinal's though, and Thief becomes a useful choice, because it buffs both mag and stam skills. For example, if you were to use the forthcoming Dark Cloak healing skill - a magicka skill - on a stamblade, Thief might be a good compromise.

Mureel

firedrgn wrote: »

Seems like wd might be less important over all so lover might be the best bang for the buck.

xD Bang for the Buck *snort* on penetration increase AHAHHAA

JinMori

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

It's hard to beat Warrior for stamina DPS, since you have several multipliers on weapon damage. For Magicka DPS, there are definitely cases where thief beats apprentice.

In Summerset, thief is becoming more effective since Magicka builds are getting minor force through the Psijic skill line. Apprentice, on the other hand, is getting an indirect nerf since light and heavy attacks will scale less from spell damage and more from Magicka.

I think one of the main reasons nobody uses thief right now is because it combines poorly with Mechanical Acuity, which is the best set for a lot of builds.

Sometimes ago i did some calculations, that resulted in apprentice dealing more damage then thief even with 90 % crit modifier and 50 % base crit.

Apprentice is just better right now

I'm not sure about Live, but I was just looking into this for Summerset on PTS. Using a mag sorc with pets as an example. Wearing 5X Necropotence, 5X Mantle of Sriroria, and 2X Ilambris I can get buffed Max Magicka to about 50k and Spell Damage over 4k (don't have the exact values in front of me at the moment, feel free to double check). With these stats, the 362 x 1.25 = 452 spell damage from the Apprentice Stone adds at most 5.1% damage.

This build sits at 41.9% spell crit, or 44.9% buffed. The 10.7% from the Thief Stone brings this to 55.6% spell crit. With a crit damage multiplier of 1.86 (full uptime minor force, 40% uptime major force, 20% from elfborn CP), this results in a DPS increase of 6.6%.

Now the other thing to consider when comparing these two mundus stones, is that the Thief increases both pet damage and weapon enchant procs. The Apprentice does not affect either of these portions of your damage.

Not sure if the specific case I've listed will actually be an optimal build next patch, just wanted to give one example of a case where Thief is almost certainly better than Apprentice.

https://tamrielfoundry.com/articles/introduction-to-pve-damage-calculation-homestead/

Just did some slight adjustment for the current mundus effects and it soulg result in this if iv;e done the calculations correctly, with full divines.

Apprentice= 5.1%

Thief= 5.9%

So it might be better, we will see.

DoobZ69

Stamsorc tank prefers thief above all else. It just benefits every aspect too perfectly

Minno

JinMori wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

It's hard to beat Warrior for stamina DPS, since you have several multipliers on weapon damage. For Magicka DPS, there are definitely cases where thief beats apprentice.

In Summerset, thief is becoming more effective since Magicka builds are getting minor force through the Psijic skill line. Apprentice, on the other hand, is getting an indirect nerf since light and heavy attacks will scale less from spell damage and more from Magicka.

I think one of the main reasons nobody uses thief right now is because it combines poorly with Mechanical Acuity, which is the best set for a lot of builds.

Sometimes ago i did some calculations, that resulted in apprentice dealing more damage then thief even with 90 % crit modifier and 50 % base crit.

Apprentice is just better right now

I'm not sure about Live, but I was just looking into this for Summerset on PTS. Using a mag sorc with pets as an example. Wearing 5X Necropotence, 5X Mantle of Sriroria, and 2X Ilambris I can get buffed Max Magicka to about 50k and Spell Damage over 4k (don't have the exact values in front of me at the moment, feel free to double check). With these stats, the 362 x 1.25 = 452 spell damage from the Apprentice Stone adds at most 5.1% damage.

This build sits at 41.9% spell crit, or 44.9% buffed. The 10.7% from the Thief Stone brings this to 55.6% spell crit. With a crit damage multiplier of 1.86 (full uptime minor force, 40% uptime major force, 20% from elfborn CP), this results in a DPS increase of 6.6%.

Now the other thing to consider when comparing these two mundus stones, is that the Thief increases both pet damage and weapon enchant procs. The Apprentice does not affect either of these portions of your damage.

Not sure if the specific case I've listed will actually be an optimal build next patch, just wanted to give one example of a case where Thief is almost certainly better than Apprentice.

https://tamrielfoundry.com/articles/introduction-to-pve-damage-calculation-homestead/

Just did some slight adjustment for the current mundus effects and it soulg result in this if iv;e done the calculations correctly, with full divines.

Apprentice= 5.1%

Thief= 5.9%

So it might be better, we will see.

What happens without divines?

Should also be noted apprentice will possibly be the same 5% ish boost across all enemies in cyro/PvP. Thief will be semi useless once that sheild pops up. Apprentice well also boost your healing and thus translate to bigger crit heals, whereas next patch crit DMG modifiers no longer work on healing so you'd only be increasing the chance for a base crit heal.