magsorc vs dk how to?

oxygen_thief

Hi! I learned to cope somehow with every class in the game except DK. i really don’t have a clue what should i do with talons-whip-petrify spam. Usually i play solo in IC and those nasty dks are freaking me out. It looks like i missed some tactic so can you help me to sort it out? All advices are appreciated

Here is my build.

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=58997

Biro123

I often struggle Vs them too.

Yet the NBs still all shout 'nerf sorc'

I guess what I'm getting started is that some classes/builds will always struggle Vs others.

Only I've yet to discover the shieldbreaker for DKs.

Lichbourne90

Every class has it's hard counter and it just so happens mag dks are our kryptonite.

Waffennacht

Keep range, use Force Pulse, weave LA with it.

Yes you will reflect the LA back at yourself, but that simple move will nullify Wings.

Cast curse after the first explosion, don't wait for the 2nd explosion to go off.

Using streak will make it easier to kite a DK, streak through them, this at least causes them to have to turn (slowing a reaction)

If you use any AoEs (i.e WoE) keep those up.

If you kite and nullify Wings, they become very easy to deal with.

You must keep range tho

Biro123

Waffennacht wrote: »

Keep range, use Force Pulse, weave LA with it.

Yes you will reflect the LA back at yourself, but that simple move will nullify Wings.

Cast curse after the first explosion, don't wait for the 2nd explosion to go off.

Using streak will make it easier to kite a DK, streak through them, this at least causes them to have to turn (slowing a reaction)

If you use any AoEs (i.e WoE) keep those up.

If you kite and nullify Wings, they become very easy to deal with.

You must keep range tho

but then not many builds have force pulse slotted.
Nobody waited for the second curse anyway.
Yeah, streak helps, for distance, but many use bol instead.

I find a runecage/meteor Burst can sometimes break their block enough and do the trick as long as they don't have tons of health, and don't pop wings or sword n board ult or interrupt you with cc while setting it up.
That's a lot of 'ifs' though.
Otherwise it either comes down to sustain, or who's allies turn up first... You have the better chance of escaping if the wrong allies show up..

But yeah, distance is good if you can keep it.

Waffennacht

@Biro123 I've watched so many cringe duels where players waited for the 2nd burst. It's kinda important that people know, in PvP, you don't wait.

(I also kinda auto assume players that backbar curse are waiting for both explosions before re-cast)

brandonv516

I shield stack, streak on CD and out-sustain until my atronach is up. Then the pressure comes and it makes it harder for the DK to focus their wings on my attacks.

Vapirko

Waffennacht wrote: »

Keep range, use Force Pulse, weave LA with it.

Yes you will reflect the LA back at yourself, but that simple move will nullify Wings.

Cast curse after the first explosion, don't wait for the 2nd explosion to go off.

Using streak will make it easier to kite a DK, streak through them, this at least causes them to have to turn (slowing a reaction)

If you use any AoEs (i.e WoE) keep those up.

If you kite and nullify Wings, they become very easy to deal with.

You must keep range tho

Can’t stress this enough. Mag DKs are like powerful snails. The only issue being that they might spam wings which is definitely growing in popularity again, and contrary to what some people say there are mag DKs that can almost infinitely use it. If you have a resto or lightning staff use the channeled heavy attacks and any other aoe you have to apply pressure. Rune cage should bypass wings so that cc is you’re friend both to get some burst on them and also to keep them at distance. Eventually they will get low on stam and this is where CCs start to really hurt and they won’t be able to block meteor. It’s a pain fighting mag DKs as a ranged mag build, it’s just a patience and timing thing. And they’re getting improvements next patch lol. Mag DKs ride off the DK is ruined wave, but really it’s only stam DKs. Mag DKs are quite strong and have a solid unique playstyle and use in PvP.

Minalan

Waffennacht wrote: »

Keep range, use Force Pulse, weave LA with it.

Yes you will reflect the LA back at yourself, but that simple move will nullify Wings.

Cast curse after the first explosion, don't wait for the 2nd explosion to go off.

Using streak will make it easier to kite a DK, streak through them, this at least causes them to have to turn (slowing a reaction)

If you use any AoEs (i.e WoE) keep those up.

If you kite and nullify Wings, they become very easy to deal with.

You must keep range tho

This here.

Use rune cage to CC them and keep the pressure up. Keep curse and the execute cooking on them.

Save your frag for when wings are down, scales can only reflect four projectiles (light attacks). Cage will prevent a wings cast and give you an opening.

Keep pressure on them with force pulse and curse, since they can’t reflect it. Heavy attack with Resto to keep resources up.

Keep one shield up at all times, so you don’t get deleted by leap/skoria combo.

WaltherCarraway

basically kiting 101

Subversus

Stay alive until you have an atro, drop it, put mines under it, start shooting at the magdk while the atro does tremendous amounts of damage to him combined with curse.

I find that out of all the classes I play, magsorc is the one that is the most capable of dealing with magdks. Especially since I can stack harness and hardened and feed myself magicka by light attacking them if they use wings. Atro is crazy strong, especially in a 1v1 scenario, and in the next patch I really don’t see a reason not to have it on your bar at all times, including open world.

Derra

Waffennacht wrote: »

Keep range, use Force Pulse, weave LA with it.

Yes you will reflect the LA back at yourself, but that simple move will nullify Wings.

Cast curse after the first explosion, don't wait for the 2nd explosion to go off.

Using streak will make it easier to kite a DK, streak through them, this at least causes them to have to turn (slowing a reaction)

If you use any AoEs (i.e WoE) keep those up.

If you kite and nullify Wings, they become very easy to deal with.

You must keep range tho

That´s assuming the DK does not use chains - which is a debateable choice.

Also lightattacking wings isn´t worth it most of the time if you do it on your offensive bar. You´ll still be shooting 14k+ worth of tooltip dmg back at yourself just from the lightattacks (and it´s not going to get better next patch). That´s a very decent trade for the DK.

From my experience only mines + attro works relieably - and only so after the 2nd or 3rd attro when the DK has realized that he´ll either fight you with it or won´t fight you at all (when he tried outranging and waiting).

AverageJo3Gam3r

Perfectly played, this matchup should be a draw. If the DK has enough sustain to keep up wings AND pressure you, they don't have enough damage to burst through your shields unless you mess up. As a DK main, I only apply wings when a sorc applies curse because I'm anticipating the burst combo. A surprise frags will catch me off guard but almost never happens.

The main thing is to keep out of the 5m burning embers range. That is my primary heal. If I haven't resort to coagulating blood then the fight is going poorly for me. I've noticed the sorcs I have more trouble with has engine guardian because they have more stamina sustain.

Waffennacht

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Keep range, use Force Pulse, weave LA with it.

Yes you will reflect the LA back at yourself, but that simple move will nullify Wings.

Cast curse after the first explosion, don't wait for the 2nd explosion to go off.

Using streak will make it easier to kite a DK, streak through them, this at least causes them to have to turn (slowing a reaction)

If you use any AoEs (i.e WoE) keep those up.

If you kite and nullify Wings, they become very easy to deal with.

You must keep range tho

That´s assuming the DK does not use chains - which is a debateable choice.

Also lightattacking wings isn´t worth it most of the time if you do it on your offensive bar. You´ll still be shooting 14k+ worth of tooltip dmg back at yourself just from the lightattacks (and it´s not going to get better next patch). That´s a very decent trade for the DK.

From my experience only mines + attro works relieably - and only so after the 2nd or 3rd attro when the DK has realized that he´ll either fight you with it or won´t fight you at all (when he tried outranging and waiting).

@Derra seems rather effective. Back barring mines?

My only issue would be, I practically hit Panacea on cool down, even if I don't need it, usually an ally does

ToRelax

You don't "wait" for the second curse explosion, you just use it when it's coming up anyway to set up another burst. You want to keep it up as much as possible against a DK, but if for example you're forced into defensive action after the first one, you would simply waste time and magicka by not using the second one as well.

PhoenixGrey

Rune cage and mines are your friend. Keep curse up all the time. Also infernal guardian helps sometimes since they are not the fastest movers.

Also if you are a vamp try to get to stage 3 to mitigate fire damage.

If you are getting outplayed kite the *** outta them and catch them with a meteor rune cage + curse to delete.

Waffennacht

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Rune cage and mines are your friend. Keep curse up all the time. Also infernal guardian helps sometimes since they are not the fastest movers.

Also if you are a vamp try to get to stage 3 to mitigate fire damage.

If you are getting outplayed kite the *** outta them and catch them with a meteor rune cage + curse to delete.

Not even gonna need that Meteor, cage is gonna do some solid damage, same with curse, both of which can't be blocked or dodged. Couple with wrath, it's really not gonna take much

Jsmalls

Against medium damage high defense Mag DKs? Not a chance. Unless there is a large skill gap. A friend and I duel a LOT. It used to end in wins either way a couple patches ago. Now he wins virtually everyone. Don't get me wrong I give him a good fight, but if he isn't on a pure damage build I can get off a full round perfectly and he'll still be standing. Next patch will likely be different with these buffs but on live...

Disclaimer: I can kill him with a rune cage, curse, meteor, frag combo. But we both laugh it off cuz it feels so cheap and requires a 170 cost ult to kill 1 player.

ATomiX96

just kite them around with streak, when they drop block and run towards you streak through them and stun if they have wings up, or rune cage them and dont let them connect any heavy attacks for stamina sustain. And especially if you have harness magicka you shouldnt have an easy time sustaining against magdks as you pretty much get full refund for your harness. but i agree they can be annoying when all they do is petrify and wing spam

PhoenixGrey

Waffennacht wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Rune cage and mines are your friend. Keep curse up all the time. Also infernal guardian helps sometimes since they are not the fastest movers.

Also if you are a vamp try to get to stage 3 to mitigate fire damage.

If you are getting outplayed kite the *** outta them and catch them with a meteor rune cage + curse to delete.

Not even gonna need that Meteor, cage is gonna do some solid damage, same with curse, both of which can't be blocked or dodged. Couple with wrath, it's really not gonna take much

Don't know about that. 8k tooltip on
cage doesn't seem like a lot

Minalan

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Rune cage and mines are your friend. Keep curse up all the time. Also infernal guardian helps sometimes since they are not the fastest movers.

Also if you are a vamp try to get to stage 3 to mitigate fire damage.

If you are getting outplayed kite the *** outta them and catch them with a meteor rune cage + curse to delete.

Not even gonna need that Meteor, cage is gonna do some solid damage, same with curse, both of which can't be blocked or dodged. Couple with wrath, it's really not gonna take much

Don't know about that. 8k tooltip on
cage doesn't seem like a lot

It’s the whole unavoidable burst sequence: Curse, wrath, cage, LA, frag.

A realistic damage output will look like this on an armored opponent with impen:

6-7K curse, can’t block or dodge
3-4K cage, can’t block or dodge
2-4K light attack, you’re caged, this is ani-cancelled. Welcome to Summerset light attack scaling.
7-8K frag crit, you’re caged.
Break free!
BOOM 10K wrath. You dropped to 20% and died.

You’re taking 18K damage on the low end, 23K on the high, you WILL drop below 20%.

Theres limited counter-play, but it’s really iffy. You can’t get caught without defenses
A mag DK with wings up will reflect the LA/FRAG, and then leap/powerlash, killing the Sorc.
A mag Templar can purge the curse and HTF. Or mist.
A mag warden will shimmer off the projectiles. Lol heroism, thanks for the Magicka and ultimate.
A mag sorc will have two shields up. Lol burst.
A Magicka NB will have harness or dampen and squeak away.
A medium armor stam is just dead, but we really don’t care. ZOS apparently doesn’t and hasn’t for dozens of patches.
A heavy armor tank will be fine. Drink one of the new super health vitality pots. Hold block. Lol, need 8 more guys to kill me.