I'd like to discuss CP and the grind that CP entails.

Azyle1

I often hear that there is no better time than now to play ESO. I agree in some ways, but one thing I wonder is what new players think of CP. To me, CP leveling is way too slow and while I'm well aware that you do not need to be max CP to raid, you are still missing out on a lot of DPS/survivability even at ~400CP.

I have about 707 CP on my stamblade on Xbox. I've been playing for about 13 months, although not straight, as breaks were taken, but have spent over 500 hours on that character. I'm not even max CP yet. Now, part of this is due to them increasing it, but my point is, as a player that is in between casual and hardcore, that seems absurd that through that many hours (questing, and dungeons mostly) I am not max CP. Is this intentional? I want to start playing on PC but the CP grind has me second guessing if I want to. It just seems like a strange idea in this game as no other MMO has such a grueling "End level" to achieve. I'm well aware WoW and FFXIV do not have a CP system or whatever, but truly I feel in ESO you aren't max level until you are max CP.

TL;DR - CP grind seems way too long and should be shortened especially considering it is just going to keep increasing.

Guarlet

Azyle1 wrote: »

It just seems like a strange idea in this game as no other MMO has such a grueling "End level" to achieve.

Oh my god lmao. You clearly have not played many MMOs.

By the way, there's an entire long, cancerous thread on this topic already. We don't need another one.

Azyle1

Guarlet wrote: »

Azyle1 wrote: »

It just seems like a strange idea in this game as no other MMO has such a grueling "End level" to achieve.

Oh my god lmao. You clearly have not played many MMOs.

I've played FFXIV through Stormblood and Wow through Mists.

WoW has the easiest level grind ever. It isn't even a grind really.

FFXIV just has stupid gated story quests, but other than that, when you hit 50, you're done. You do not have to grind 720 more levels.

Also, if you are going to talk about other MMOs, don't bother, because ESO, WoW and FFXIV are the only ones worth mentioning as others are garbage. (Maybe GW2 is an exception)

Koolio

I would love to see CP gains double. I want new players not to get turned away by CP grind.

But take a look at this 600 cp in 4 days if going all out fully supported

https://youtu.be/MKimBNFCQmI

Azyle1

Koolio wrote: »

I would love to see CP gains double. I want new players not to get turned away by CP grind.

But take a look at this 600 cp in 4 days if going all out fully supported

https://youtu.be/MKimBNFCQmI

Yeah and that is why I'm not coming in here guns blazing.

Like, sure, its is possibly through rigorous grinding to max out CP is a decent manner, but I still think it's a pretty hefty slog, especially if you do not plan on grinding. You already grind from 1-50.

I'm sure people will not agree with me and I'm not trying to argue FYI, just expressing my opinion.

Guarlet

O

Azyle1 wrote: »

Also, if you are going to talk about other MMOs, don't bother, because ESO, WoW and FFXIV are the only ones worth mentioning as others are garbage. (Maybe GW2 is an exception)

....Ok. Great attitude lol.

Also, the wording in your argument is disingenuous. You're talking about needing to grind to 720 CP as if that's what you need for endgame or something. That is patently false. You have all the DPS and survivability you need for basically everything at endgame at 400 CP. From there on out, the gains are relatively small and get smaller and smaller as you near 720. Diminishing returns. Stop thinking about 720 as a "level you have to achieve!!!" but just something to work towards gradually.

There are also loads and loads of XP boosters if you really care all that much, not to mention all the XP-giving festivals ZOS keeps throwing at us.

But all of this has been said multiple times in the other thread already.

Azyle1

Guarlet wrote: »

O

Azyle1 wrote: »

Also, if you are going to talk about other MMOs, don't bother, because ESO, WoW and FFXIV are the only ones worth mentioning as others are garbage. (Maybe GW2 is an exception)

....Ok. Great attitude lol.

Also, the wording in your argument is disingenuous. You're talking about needing to grind to 720 CP as if that's what you need for endgame or something. That is patently false. You have all the DPS and survivability you need for basically everything at endgame at 400 CP. From there on out, the gains are relatively small and get smaller and smaller as you near 720. Diminishing returns. Stop thinking about 720 as a "level you have to achieve!!!" but just something to work towards gradually.

There are also loads and loads of XP boosters if you really care all that much, not to mention all the XP-giving festivals ZOS keeps throwing at us.

But all of this has been said multiple times in the other thread already.

Nothing to do with attitude, it's the truth. These are the main games, everything else is mediocre at best (Rift, Wildstar, DCUO, Runescape - although RS is kinda different from the rest of these, etc, etc.). All I am saying is the level grind just seems a tad to long. It it was 33% quicker or something, it would be a good sweet spot IMO.

Azyle1

Edit : Because I apparently can't use the forum correctly.

Asardes

Took me 6 months to reach CP 501 when it was te cap, and I played the game normally, without aiming for it. For almost 2 years I've been gaining CP faster than they are added to the cap doing the same thing.

Ley

CP is highly overrated. It's nice to have but hardly worth fussing over.

AlnilamE

OK, first of all Max CP is 3600

Second, then ZOS introduced CP, they had this notion that people should earn on average 1 CP per day (at 400k XP per CP).

They obviously underestimated how much people like to grind.

To help reduce the gap between new and old players they

1. Introduced a usable CP cap that gets increased at regular intervals. Any CP earned above that cap require 1.5x more XP.
2. Introduced an XP scale that is adjusted with the cap so that lower end XP are easier to earn
3. Front-loaded CP so that people with low CP get a nice early boost
4. Introduced a gazillion double-XP events. We literally had 2 back to back.

And if you decide to switch to PC, it will be easier to earn the same CP you earned before because the curve has been adjusted.

Now, the "CP grind" is only a grind if you don't enjoy what you are doing. And if you don't enjoy what you are doing, then you need to ask yourself why you are doing it. And if there are alternate ways to achieve what you want.

Azyle1

AlnilamE wrote: »

OK, first of all Max CP is 3600

Second, then ZOS introduced CP, they had this notion that people should earn on average 1 CP per day (at 400k XP per CP).

They obviously underestimated how much people like to grind.

To help reduce the gap between new and old players they

1. Introduced a usable CP cap that gets increased at regular intervals. Any CP earned above that cap require 1.5x more XP.
2. Introduced an XP scale that is adjusted with the cap so that lower end XP are easier to earn
3. Front-loaded CP so that people with low CP get a nice early boost
4. Introduced a gazillion double-XP events. We literally had 2 back to back.

And if you decide to switch to PC, it will be easier to earn the same CP you earned before because the curve has been adjusted.

Now, the "CP grind" is only a grind if you don't enjoy what you are doing. And if you don't enjoy what you are doing, then you need to ask yourself why you are doing it. And if there are alternate ways to achieve what you want.

Yeah.. that's a pretty good point.

PlagueSD

CP160 is all you need for the gear. Anything over that is just "frosting on the cake"

Also, if you have multiple characters, you can park them in a city for the "enlightened" buff and take them out to farm XP. You're not forced to do it all on one character as the CP points are shared between all characters.

KrishakPanettier

If I hit max cap, I would probably quit playing, or not play as often. The continual incremental advancement is nice. MMO's aren't supposed to be get to the top as fast as possible. Enjoy the game.

VexingArcanist

CP is working exactly as intended. It is meant to slow your progress towards being done with the game. It's all about the treadmill. MMOs make more money the longer you play them and thus it is in the financial interest of the company to keep your pace as slow as possible without driving you away.

starkerealm

Azyle1 wrote: »

Edit : Because I apparently can't use the forum correctly.

I suspected, but could not prove.

Though, seriously, the big thing about CP, that you seem to be missing is, that it's account wide. So, while you can accuse it of being a huge grind, it is something you don't have to do repeatedly. The examples you gave require you to regrind for every character you want to level (with the possible exception of FF14). With ESO, that's not, quite, the case. Some abilities will require grinding on alts, but you don't have to get those 720 CP again for another character.

Qwazzy

Wasn't there someone who streamed level 1 to CP690 in the span of 48 hours? It was on PS4 if I remember correctly.

Tandor

Koolio wrote: »

I would love to see CP gains double. I want new players not to get turned away by CP grind.

New players are unaffected by CPs, they haven't reached them yet. By the time they do reach them, they are well aware of the way the game is played and how unnecessary it is to grind out max CPs in order to play the game.

technohic

Well; Im mixed on this. I feel like I haven't really worried about CP and am not capped myself, but I've been able to play what I want seemingly fine.

I generally like to PvP and I did enjoy some no CP PvP for a while and battlegrounds there is not choice so there are options. For PvE; I can't speak to it much as Im not a big fan of running raids and dungeons myself but it seems like that should be what you want in PVE is a long progression as opposed to PvP where I just want to get in there and fight.

That said; I can also see the argument as even with no-CP PvP, if you want the good gear, you probably are going to want to do vet dungeons at least for some of it and that is gated behind CP. And lets face it. While some guy does 0-cap CP in 48 hours, anyone more casually playing for some fun is not going to get 48 hours in a month nor spend every bit of those hours grinding .

It really is a matter of how casual they want this game to be. Im casual, but I've managed by not worrying about it and finding ways to have fun. Others may not be so patient but then why so casual if you're in such a hurry?

Jameliel

It's boring and takes too long compared to other MMOs. As with every game, you still have diehard fans who ridicule anyone who disagrees.

starkerealm

Tandor wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

I would love to see CP gains double. I want new players not to get turned away by CP grind.

New players are unaffected by CPs, they haven't reached them yet. By the time they do reach them, they are well aware of the way the game is played and how unnecessary it is to grind out max CPs in order to play the game.

I'd really like to believe this. But I've encountered far too many who ground their way to the level cap on Dolmens, or elsewhere and have no clue how to play the game.

Tandor

starkerealm wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

I would love to see CP gains double. I want new players not to get turned away by CP grind.

New players are unaffected by CPs, they haven't reached them yet. By the time they do reach them, they are well aware of the way the game is played and how unnecessary it is to grind out max CPs in order to play the game.

I'd really like to believe this. But I've encountered far too many who ground their way to the level cap on Dolmens, or elsewhere and have no clue how to play the game.

So why worry about them? Why think that the game should follow the direction of those who believe they have to grind the quickest way to "endgame" and have no clue how to play the game? Why not maintain the game the way it is and focus instead on informing new players on how best to enjoy it?

The day MMORPGs are turned upside down to follow the whims of those who want to "beat" them in record time and then complain about having nothing to do will be the day the rest of us move on to something totally different.

The approach you describe is fine for those veterans who want to play their alts that way, but they make the mistake of convincing themselves that even new players on their first character need to play that way too. It's utter baloney, and you and I both know it. Don't pander to them.

mikejezz

Jameliel wrote: »

It's boring and takes too long compared to other MMOs. As with every game, you still have diehard fans who ridicule anyone who disagrees.

In games like WoW you quit after three weeks cus that’s how long it takes to get max level and done the raids, and then unsubscribe.

It’s nice ce to have something to do.

Tandor

Jameliel wrote: »

It's boring and takes too long compared to other MMOs. As with every game, you still have diehard fans who ridicule anyone who disagrees.

I've noticed a common point in these sorts of comments, which is that the people who are accused of ridiculing anyone who disagrees are those who perfectly respectfully hold a different opinion to the people accusing them of that. Strange, that, isn't it?

jedtb16_ESO

Tandor wrote: »

Jameliel wrote: »

It's boring and takes too long compared to other MMOs. As with every game, you still have diehard fans who ridicule anyone who disagrees.

I've noticed a common point in these sorts of comments, which is that the people who are accused of ridiculing anyone who disagrees are those who perfectly respectfully hold a different opinion to the people accusing them of that. Strange, that, isn't it?

yeah, but it's the internet.

want cp?

just play the game.

srfrogg23

I wouldn’t focus so heavily on C.P. gains. You’ll get burned out. I’d recommend just doing the things you enjoy and you’ll be C.P. capped before you know it.

MerlinPendragon

Leave Champion Points as is.

Thunderknuckles

And, Azyle1, once you DO hit cap it takes even longer to get to the next level. So, let's say you hit cap and wanna get far enough ahead to keep up with the next chapter that'll be out in 4 months or so, it takes much more xp to get to the next CP level.

Another example: before I hit level 720 I could run a daily random dungeon for the 101K some odd XP. That'd be enough to get me almost to the next level. Now...one random daily dungeon is about 30% of that. So I have to run 2 characters through the daily random to get the next level. That is, at least, my experience with it.

SquareSausage

casual.

ShadowMonarch

I can't get any of my friends to play the game BECAUSE of the CP grind, along with having to collect skyshards, lorebooks, train their mount over 180 days or spend $$$$ to have it not even account wide. Then having to PVE for a lot of the good gear for cyrodil and not being able to buy it with AP instead.

They are avid pvpers and want nothing to do with any part of the game outside cyrodil but the game has too much grinding in it for them to stick around. They find it hilarious that they are supposed to grind a character to 50, only to have to regrind to 160 to be back on the bottom of the barrel. Then when they had all been playing their first characters for a few days and made their 2nd characters to try a new class out, and found out their skyshards, lorebooks, and mount training reset they just uninstalled it and went back to wow.

neverwalk

cp not a problem, i'm 285 cp over cap @ cp 1005