A nerf coming to Wardens with Summerset?

Thunderknuckles

That's what I keep hearing, but haven't read or even seen notes regarding it. I work a lot and these things get by me easily. lol Any of you know anything specific and for certain?

Waffennacht

We know, thus far, the Stun of Deep Fissure will be removed and replaced with Major Breach

Combined with the previous dodgeable birds Nerf Magden is a lackluster PvP class and because of low dps, a lackluster PvE dps class

For tanks it's fine though, and from what I've heard, also a fine healer

Minno

Waffennacht wrote: »

We know, thus far, the Stun of Deep Fissure will be removed and replaced with Major Breach

Combined with the previous dodgeable birds Nerf Magden is a lackluster PvP class and because of low dps, a lackluster PvE dps class

For tanks it's fine though, and from what I've heard, also a fine healer

They got "templar'd"

Solariken

Minno wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

We know, thus far, the Stun of Deep Fissure will be removed and replaced with Major Breach

Combined with the previous dodgeable birds Nerf Magden is a lackluster PvP class and because of low dps, a lackluster PvE dps class

For tanks it's fine though, and from what I've heard, also a fine healer

They got "templar'd"

Lol yeah but Blazing Spear isn't what I consider high damage. Or high anything. A real head-scratcher, we'll never know, we just have to assume it's bc Wrobel only plays stamblade.

Regarding Warden though, my best guess is that there won't be any meaningful changes. With the class going to the crown store they wouldn't dare tone down stamwarden, gotta keep the pay-2-win for PvP tryhards.

Thogard

The sub assault is having its resistance debuff duration cut in half
Shimmering shield is having its cost increased - this is actually a big deal, as even a slight cost increase will be felt hard by a Stam class with low Mag regen

Vaoh

The only nerfs to note are:

1. Shimmering Shield cost increase.
• Small nerf to tanks in PvE, and Wardens as a whole in PvP.
• Not really gonna hurt PvP Stam Wardens much which is the only “overperforming” Warden spec

2. Deep Fissure Stun Removal/addition of 5sec Major Breach
• Buff to Mag Wardens in typical PvE group dungeons.... at least in AoE fights vs trash mobs. This change is almost negligible for them but still worth mentioning. It’ll be nerf for situations where they could use the stun though, like vs stone-spawning adds in Ruins of Mazzatun (CCing them stops their channel), etc.
• Nerf to Mag Warden in PvP - they no longer have a stun, and will *need* to slot Destructive Touch via Shock/Flame Staff to even have one stunning ability. It is a huge nerf for most builds and will absolutely pidgeonhole all Mag Wardens into the same few builds (rip ). I know it sucks, but unfortunately that is the case here.
• Nerf to “Ice Mage” Mag Wardens, mainly who appear rarely in PvP. They will no longer have a stun available to them since they run Ice Staff+Resto Staff. This playstyle has officially died because Warden is now a class without any stuns (no, a 200cost ult morph Permafrost does not count).

3. Subterranean Assault debuff duration reduced from 10 to 5 seconds, and Major Breach removed.
• Nerf to PvE Warden tanks and/or healers, who formerly could debuff a large pack of enemies perfectly (the only thing a Warden could do very, very well).
• Miniscule nerf to Stam Wardens in PvP, who will play just as well with their now 5sec debuff duration.



So in the end:
- Warden tanks (PvP/PvE), Mag Wardens (PvP) and Stam Wardens (PvE) got nerfed quite a bit.
- Warden Healers (PvE/PvP) nerfed due to Subterranean Assault changes, though got Ult gain added to a few Green Balance skills (will change nothing in trial groups). All changes considered, it’s a nerf in PvE but mostly a small buff in PvP.
- Mag Wardens (PvE) essentially the same. Slight buff in some scenarios, slight nerf in others. Same thing as in Dragon Bones.
- Stam Warden (PvP) nerfed a bit, though now they can use a few skills that will regenerate Ult for them. Overall - a small nerf that will amount to no change in their strength.



Yup it sucks. In a perfect world ZOS would have buffed Warden in all areas except PvP Stam Warden..... that’s just not the case though.

Zordrage

Vaoh wrote: »

Yup it sucks. In a perfect world ZOS would have buffed Warden in all areas except PvP Stam Warden..... that’s just not the case though.

In a Perfect World DK finally would get REAL ranged Options and some much needed Stamina morphs finally....

wheem_ESO

Their justification for the Deep Fissure stun removal is sort of funny:

In the same vein that snare abilities should either be short and powerful or long and weak, abilities should be low damage and CC, or high damage and no CC.

Yet Dizzying Swing will still stun, while typically hitting as hard as, if not harder than, Deep Fissure does.

Magicka Warden is pretty much bottom of the barrel for PvP offensive roles, and they're eating more nerfs while other setups are getting buffs. My Magicka Sorcerer is already better than my Warden, yet that class' stun-through-block is getting its duration doubled.

Cliff Racers will land quite a bit faster than they do now, which is nice I guess, but Magicka is still going to need some significant changes in order to truly be competitive. Except 1v1 against projectile-centered magicka opponents that is, where you can troll them all day long with absorb spam (which is the one Warden ability that actually needs a nerf - a much bigger one than it's actually getting).

WuffyCerulei

For magicka dps, they actually aren't bad next patch. They're actually doing better than magplars T-T.

fred4

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Cliff Racers will land quite a bit faster than they do now, which is nice I guess

Errr ... is it? Can I still land Fissure, Cliff Racer and A.N.Other ability within the same GCD window? Because otherwise that is actually a huge nerf to warden burst in PvP. Do we assume ZOS isn't capable of being that stupid? Sorry, I have no access to PTS for testing, as my hard drive is full.

Waffennacht

fred4 wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Cliff Racers will land quite a bit faster than they do now, which is nice I guess

Errr ... is it? Can I still land Fissure, Cliff Racer and A.N.Other ability within the same GCD window? Because otherwise that is actually a huge nerf to warden burst in PvP. Do we assume ZOS isn't capable of being that stupid? Sorry, I have no access to PTS for testing, as my hard drive is full.

From what I've read...

No, they no longer sync up

casparian

fred4 wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Cliff Racers will land quite a bit faster than they do now, which is nice I guess

Errr ... is it? Can I still land Fissure, Cliff Racer and A.N.Other ability within the same GCD window? Because otherwise that is actually a huge nerf to warden burst in PvP. Do we assume ZOS isn't capable of being that stupid? Sorry, I have no access to PTS for testing, as my hard drive is full.

Correct, it no longer lines up and the change is a nerf.

Magwarden is only not nerfed for players who exclusively sit in the middle of medium to large groups. Magwardens who want to play small-scale (including Battlegrounds) got major nerfs to their two most central damage skills.

Thunderknuckles

And here I was strongly considering making a Warden for PvP. I suppose it'll still be doable, just not nearly as easy.

kerthas

Guys guys, Magden as a dps pvp, in buff as hell. In light armor and even more in heavy. Yes its a little bit annoying with the removal stun, but there is other way. The cost of shimmering and his other morph are a bit annoying too, specially for the stam.

But let me tell you, the stamden is strong as ***, and for me they do not nerf enough.

But the dmg of Magden will be increase like ***, and that, i like it.

grannas211

kerthas wrote: »

Guys guys, Magden as a dps pvp, in buff as hell. In light armor and even more in heavy. Yes its a little bit annoying with the removal stun, but there is other way. The cost of shimmering and his other morph are a bit annoying too, specially for the stam.

But let me tell you, the stamden is strong as ***, and for me they do not nerf enough.

But the dmg of Magden will be increase like ***, and that, i like it.

I’ll take some of whatever you’re smoking bro.

kerthas

grannas211 wrote: »

I’ll take some of whatever you’re smoking bro.

If you have some money, sure

Skander

Of course in group Magwarden are ok. You could run naked in a group and being ok, till you encounter a bigger group.

We talking about a class comparison atm.

kerthas

Skander wrote: »

Of course in group Magwarden are ok. You could run naked in a group and being ok, till you encounter a bigger group.

We talking about a class comparison atm.

We are talking about the changeof the magden with summerset.

Dyride

kerthas wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Of course in group Magwarden are ok. You could run naked in a group and being ok, till you encounter a bigger group.

We talking about a class comparison atm.

We are talking about the changeof the magden with summerset.

What do you think contributes so much?

You can no longer Shalk/Bird/Crushing Shock combo, so you are stuck with Shalk/Bird/DBoS which uses physical penetration/crit afaik.

Major Breach is another ~8% damage but doesn't effect shields.

The set changes for 2H and staves is something that every class gets.

Plus dueling on PTS is nothing like open world.

kerthas

Because of Major breach.

You dont seems realize how much this is powerful. I mean for heavy armor you will be able to save a slot, remove elemental drain, and use an another one, thats huge.

For the magicka warden (light and heavy), it will increase your dmg against all those stamina class so *** boring to kill (except nb). And you will be able to reorganize your cp because of that (well for me at least). A debuff like that on someone, its so much better than just some penetration.

And you still can do the combo Shalk/Bird/Crusher, just you will not have the stun. You can deal with it. Replace crusher with destructive reach for example, less dmg i give you that, but you add a dot, and with fletchet infection and the passiv Burn, its pretty good damage, and if you use poison, thereis 4 dot on your target. Thats a lot.

fred4

kerthas wrote: »

And you still can do the combo Shalk/Bird/Crusher, just you will not have the stun.

No. If they don't line up, then it's pointless. It will be Shalk / Bird / Clench, as you say, but that is still a huge nerf to burst. I have no idea what ZOS are thinking. Sorc has Curse, Frags, Fury and Combustion hitting at the same time. The point of Cliff Racer was to combo it. Now we don't have that, nor do we have a usable execute (forget about the bear, open world). Total nerf. ZOS are either that incompetent, or they just don't have the backbone to stand over their original design. It may appease beginners, but for people who know to play the class, this is a serious WTF moment.

Ender1310

Stam Warden hits really hard. synergizes great with groups. And is very tanky. They are the premier pvp stam class. As a magicka la night blade if I get cornered or suckered up into their tower hump routine I'm dead. The beatles just chew right threw me. With that said as a magicka NB I pretty much fight when I want and where I want. Doesn't bother me one bit. On my Stamplar werewolf build I can typically kite the beetles/out heal the damage until my wolf is ready and then I win most times. Emphasis on most. They are outperforming all other stam builds however I don't find their play style to be as annoying as stamblades or old school magsorcs or even jesus beam at full health Templars. They try to set you up in a huge burst combo and are tanky. There are ways around getting hit by it but you will run out of stam eventually. It is what it is. I don't mind them being the Meta. Someones gotta be.

Waffennacht

Ender1310 wrote: »

Stam Warden hits really hard. synergizes great with groups. And is very tanky. They are the premier pvp stam class. As a magicka la night blade if I get cornered or suckered up into their tower hump routine I'm dead. The beatles just chew right threw me. With that said as a magicka NB I pretty much fight when I want and where I want. Doesn't bother me one bit. On my Stamplar werewolf build I can typically kite the beetles/out heal the damage until my wolf is ready and then I win most times. Emphasis on most. They are outperforming all other stam builds however I don't find their play style to be as annoying as stamblades or old school magsorcs or even jesus beam at full health Templars. They try to set you up in a huge burst combo and are tanky. There are ways around getting hit by it but you will run out of stam eventually. It is what it is. I don't mind them being the Meta. Someones gotta be.

While I agree with you, the problem lies in, how can you justify nerfing a non "premier PvP Stam class" while that very meta class goes untouched?