Question on how Jorvulds ‘actually’ works

SmellyUnlimited

So to start, here’s the item set in question:



Jorvuld’s Guidance Set


LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160

(2 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(3 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(4 items) Adds 2% Healing Done
(5 items) Increases the duration of all Major buffs, Minor buffs, and damage shields you apply to yourself and allies by 40%.

Important note: As the 5 piece says, it’s only on buffs/shields the caster wearing Jorvulds applies (will be referenced below)

Question on this set:

1. Will your buff enhanced time be affected if you cast then switch off of Jorvulds?
**If you cast, say Warhorn, from a bar with Jorvulds, and switch to a bar where you are not wearing the 5 piece (like front and back bar set-ups).


Then there’s this little nugget from the PTS notes:

“ Jorvuld’s Guidance: Fixed an issue where this item set’s bonus was not increasing the duration of Major Slayer or Major Aegis.“

This sounds great and all, but as stated above, it only applies if the wearer was using Master Architect or War Machine, AND wearing Jorvulds (which seems unlikely).
It would extend Major Slayer for an additional 4 seconds, which perhaps would be useful as a buff set? (This instead of Powerful Assault for an odd-tank)?

Nestor

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

1. Will your buff enhanced time be affected if you cast then switch off of Jorvulds?
**If you cast, say Warhorn, from a bar with Jorvulds, and switch to a bar where you are not wearing the 5 piece (like front and back bar set-ups).

Your overlooking the fact that you no longer have to do this goofy 5+4+2 Bar Swap thing to get two 5 Piece Bonuses. With the change to all weapons giving two set slots, every build will now have the ability to use 5+5+2, so no more bar swapping around to get a set bonus like we do now. In other words, this whole back bar and front bar thing is not a thing anymore.

As for the other concern, they fixed one issue but that does mean it is the only buff that applies. Look at description for the set, it does not say it only does certain buffs. It says All Buffs applied by the wearer of the set.

MerlinPendragon

Nestor wrote: »

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

1. Will your buff enhanced time be affected if you cast then switch off of Jorvulds?
**If you cast, say Warhorn, from a bar with Jorvulds, and switch to a bar where you are not wearing the 5 piece (like front and back bar set-ups).

Your overlooking the fact that you no longer have to do this goofy 5+4+2 Bar Swap thing to get two 5 Piece Bonuses. With the change to all weapons giving two set slots, every build will now have the ability to use 5+5+2, so no more bar swapping around to get a set bonus like we do now. In other words, this whole back bar and front bar thing is not a thing

When is this going into effect?

Nestor

@MerlinPendragon

When Summerset releases

Dagoth_Rac

Nestor wrote: »

Your overlooking the fact that you no longer have to do this goofy 5+4+2 Bar Swap thing to get two 5 Piece Bonuses. With the change to all weapons giving two set slots, every build will now have the ability to use 5+5+2, so no more bar swapping around to get a set bonus like we do now. In other words, this whole back bar and front bar thing is not a thing anymore.

Not necessarily. You can still put a 5-piece set only on back bar. Difference is that now you only need 3 armor/jewelry pieces to get that 5-set bonus on back bar instead of 4 armor/jewelry pieces. Which frees up an extra gear slot. Heck, you could have 3 non-weapon pieces + front bar weapon = 5 pieces of Set X, 3 non-weapon pieces + back bar weapon = 5 pieces of Set Y, and still have room for 4 more pieces of a set Z.

Will permanent 5/5/2 be the simplest and cleanest setup? Yep. But people can still put together sets that are only active on one bar, and will actually have more flexibility in what gear they wear compared to now. You could do something wild like 3 Moondancer jewelry for permanent Minor Slayer and a Moondancer back bar weapon to hit synergies. A Willpower front bar for 1500 magicka or so while your DoTs are ticking and you are hitting your spammable. Plus, still have room for permanent 5-piece Julianos via body pieces. And still have room for a 2-piece monster set.

Will that be best-in-slot? I have no idea. It's liable to be one of those, "thin line between clever and stupid," scenarios.

Most people will go 5/5/2 and call it a day. But there will be opportunities for some very funky gear build outs with different buffs and sets on different bars.

Waffennacht

I would do something like

X1 Jorvuld jewelry
x2 monster set
x3 spell powercure armor
x2 willpower jewelry

Jorvuld resto staff
Spellpower cure front staff

Jorvuld buff abilities when they are cast with the full Jorvuld set, when on the other bar it will not buff, but buffed abilities cast from the Jorvuld bar remain buffed after swapping to the non Jorvuld bar

Tasear

A few things don't work with set. This mostly buffs based on location.

Yes you can use it on back to buff things and move back front bar. Yes you do 2 monster helms + 1 arena staff +5 guidance + vestment 5 (new spc) (weapon + jelwery or amour).

SmellyUnlimited

Nestor wrote: »

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

1. Will your buff enhanced time be affected if you cast then switch off of Jorvulds?
**If you cast, say Warhorn, from a bar with Jorvulds, and switch to a bar where you are not wearing the 5 piece (like front and back bar set-ups).

Your overlooking the fact that you no longer have to do this goofy 5+4+2 Bar Swap thing to get two 5 Piece Bonuses. With the change to all weapons giving two set slots, every build will now have the ability to use 5+5+2, so no more bar swapping around to get a set bonus like we do now. In other words, this whole back bar and front bar thing is not a thing anymore.

As for the other concern, they fixed one issue but that does mean it is the only buff that applies. Look at description for the set, it does not say it only does certain buffs. It says All Buffs applied by the wearer of the set.

Well, doing 5 SPC body, monster set, Master resto and a Jorvulds destro would put it on just one bar. It doesn’t apply to all buffs though. For example, SPC isn’t affected by it (only major and minor buffs), nor would Sunder, NMG, or any set without a named buff. Granted this is getting changed in Summerset as they’re making all buffs named.

But either way, my main point was that even though things like Major Slayer will apply with Jorvulds, it would require the caster to be actually wearing Jorvulds (which would be a big DPS loss).

Gallagher563

SPC is now a major buff. Might be courage.

FrancisCrawford

Gallagher563 wrote: »

SPC is now a major buff. Might be courage.

Yep. More precisely, it will be with Summerset.

Probably better to use it as the proc set rather than Jorvul's.

If you have Guidance at all, wouldn't you in particular want it active on your resto bar to augment any Major Mending you give yourself with a heavy attack?

Betsararie

Never heard of him

Nestor

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Not necessarily. You can still put a 5-piece set only on back bar.

People do this now because they can't go 5+5+2 on a Stick Caster or 2H Melee. The whole underlying need for this goes away come Summerset. Will people stil do it? Perhaps as you say, because this change does not limit existing combos, which is good. Heck, I might take one of my characters that goes 5+2+2+2 and make them 5+2+2+2+1. But it will be consistent between bar swaps.

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

But either way, my main point was that even though things like Major Slayer will apply with Jorvulds, it would require the caster to be actually wearing Jorvulds (which would be a big DPS loss).

If your Buffs affect the Group, then it is an overall DPS Increase if the buff lasts longer. And you can make up for any DPS loss over what you have now with another 5 piece, which you never could do before.

SmellyUnlimited

Nestor wrote: »

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Not necessarily. You can still put a 5-piece set only on back bar.

People do this now because they can't go 5+5+2 on a Stick Caster or 2H Melee. The whole underlying need for this goes away come Summerset. Will people stil do it? Perhaps as you say, because this change does not limit existing combos, which is good. Heck, I might take one of my characters that goes 5+2+2+2 and make them 5+2+2+2+1. But it will be consistent between bar swaps.

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

But either way, my main point was that even though things like Major Slayer will apply with Jorvulds, it would require the caster to be actually wearing Jorvulds (which would be a big DPS loss).

If your Buffs affect the Group, then it is an overall DPS Increase if the buff lasts longer. And you can make up for any DPS loss over what you have now with another 5 piece, which you never could do before.

The Major Slayer buff i’m referring to would be from a set worn by a dps. The only way that set gets time extended is if the wearer ALSO wears Jorvulds. However, the dps loss from wearing Jorvulds would hardly be made up by an extra 4 seconds of Major Slayer. Especially when you consider Major Slayer is a % increase, so losing a 5 piece that would up your damage would also greatly weaken that bonus. Yes you give your pals a nice Major Slayer extension, but doubtful they’ll be making up the damage loss you’d sustain by wearing Jorvulds as a dps.

And the 5-5-2 is entirely possible, and in fact plausible, when you consider that healers would by and large be the users of Jorvulds. 5 SPC (or the new set) body, 2 piece monster, a master resto, 3 IA body, and backbar an IA destro for the full 5 piece. The benefit of having a set that provides amazing damage utility, AND being able to use a master resto and take advantage full time of the Major Courage buff, is unbelievable team gain. Add to that wearing Earthgore, or Sentinel, maybe even Thorvokun on healer, and that backbar set up just elevated this to an extremely OP build. After this patch, all trials SHOULD have a healer wearing IA and one wearing Mending. I still don’t see Jorvulds getting any additional play with ZOS changing all buffs to Major or Minor.

@FrancisCrawford
About Major Mending - it would only increase the duration by 1 second. The only skill that truly benefits from it is still Aggressive Warhorn. An extra 4 seconds of Major Force, and 8 seconds or so on the 10% resource buff from horn. But buff duration spells are so short on duration, that the 40% increase on such a low value is fairly negligible.

Tasear

Why would anyone ever use IA next patch? You can keep uptimes with charged lighting staff and shock glyph.

Mending is a debuff set so better to use a buff set like worm on average ocassion. The other buff is jorvulds. It's also defensive set so perfect endgame.

raj72616a

Tasear wrote: »

Why would anyone ever use IA next patch? You can keep uptimes with charged lighting staff and shock glyph.

Mending is a debuff set so better to use a buff set like worm on average ocassion. The other buff is jorvulds. It's also defensive set so perfect endgame.

pug dungeon you may get two weak melee dps who need constant healing, and you can still proc minor vulnerability with IA resto staff

Tasear

raj72616a wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Why would anyone ever use IA next patch? You can keep uptimes with charged lighting staff and shock glyph.

Mending is a debuff set so better to use a buff set like worm on average ocassion. The other buff is jorvulds. It's also defensive set so perfect endgame.

pug dungeon you may get two weak melee dps who need constant healing, and you can still proc minor vulnerability with IA resto staff

If you are a healer though ...can do same thing without wasting a set. For pug dungeons twlight remedy might be better or master architect even jorvulds for offensive support.

If there's issue with constant healers then check their health and place a heal over time down.

ccfeeling

Jorvu is pretty useless, there are too many major buffs restriction.