Spamming the key/mouse button is annoying imho

Dreepa

In ESO I have never really got the feeling of knowing at what point my button press will be recognized. So I guess we just spam the button.
To me it feels like lack of control and precision of use.

In games that have a good ergonomic implementation of the controls, you always know that the press was accepted by the game and will be executed, and you get clear feedback if that is not the case.

In ESO, I press the button, and there is no feedback, no indicator. It feels like I just click into the void, spamming the keys. It feels indirect and unprecise. Getting a click rhythm for light attack is not an easy flow, so instead I just click multiple times. I feel disconnected from the character. Somehow the controls are somewhere between your standard MMO with cooldowns (like WoW) where you press once, and get clear feedback through the hotbar (cooldown) that it worked (some games also remember the button press for a while and it gets queued at the end of the actual action being executed) and an action RPG on the other side (like Diablo, Torchlight, etc) where it is more direct. Yet ESO is without the good Diablo-style GUI / UX feedback. Though even in Diablo you can keep the button pressed at one enemy, and your character keeps attacking. However, using an ability in Diablo also gives you clear GUI feedback that it has worked.

For a game that is so many years out there, I would really expect more polish in an area that you use 90% of the game-play. For years there are changes to numbers, changes to balancing, changes to skill effects. There is theory crafting and all that. But what about the basic "feel". To me it is not tripleA. Combat in ESO (ability activation and light attacks in particular) just feels low quality in terms of "ergonomic" and "habtic" UX feedback.

jedtb16_ESO

to get haptic feedback you would need an enabled device. i'm not aware of any haptic keyboards or mice, though i suppose it is possible.

Dreepa

Literally speaking, you are right of course. I was more meaning the perceived haptic that you imagine. It feels right when whatever you do in a machine-human interface actually feels like it is something physical. For example: Pressing a button on a touchscreen without feedback, vs pressing a button on a touchscreen that makes a strong 'click' in sync with a shake of the icon you clicked. Or exploding a bubble on a screen by pressing it, and swiping down. If the explosion point of the bubble is at the right spot (not to early, not to late) the imagined "haptic" just feels right.

But yes, real haptic is a different topic ofc.

Maura_Neysa

LMAO PC players complaining about gaming controls. Up side for us console i guess, I dont need to spam the trigger.

Dreepa

I am not complaining. I am raising a topic for discussion and opinions. "black & white" thinking serves no purpose other than escalation without result.

Maura_Neysa

Dreepa wrote: »

I am not complaining. I am raising a topic for discussion and opinions. "black & white" thinking serves no purpose other than escalation without result.

Stop clicking it a bunch of times, click it once and wait for the animation to start. Let go+skill.

jedtb16_ESO

not sure what to say on this....

both my keyboard and mouse have mechanical keys and give a satisfying click when engaged. do it in game too, so i click lmb and a light attack is launched. i know it has because i hear the click and see the animation.

Graydon

Been playing ESO on pc since launch and I have no idea what you are talking about.

Never had an issue. Controls seem fine to me.

Dreepa

To get an idea, maybe look at this diablo hotbar:

https://youtu.be/na6SaKAZ4R0?t=4m58s

Something like that

Dreepa

Also: There is an audio feedback when you press a skill and not have the resource (mag/stam) to do so.
But then there is no audio feedback when you press it without effect (due to not yet ready character to execute).

Sergykid

wow had this thing of spellqueue, which you could turn off or no with a chat command like .spellqueue_on/_off
but since eso tried to avoid many wow features u won't see this

Tandor

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

not sure what to say on this....

both my keyboard and mouse have mechanical keys and give a satisfying click when engaged. do it in game too, so i click lmb and a light attack is launched. i know it has because i hear the click and see the animation.

Same here. No idea what the OP is concerned with really, unless his setup is behaving differently for some reason - possibly due to an addon? I don't use any, and have no problems with the combat.

Sweet_Cicero

I think he might be referring to the seemingly sluggish execution of skill and attack animations. For example, on my nb if I'm spamming surprise attack as I sneak up to an enemy (so as to hit it immediately when I get in range) I've noticed that if I don't stop immediately it occasionally launches a second or sometimes third use of the skill. I think the issue stems from learning combat animations, and the animations themselves seeming sluggish.

Luigi_Vampa

I hate audio cues from other games like WoWs "I can't cast that now", "I'm out of magicka" or just in some games the error sound when the spell doesn't work. I know my skills go off or not because I see them, I would hate for a ton of sounds to be implemented. I have no problems with how it is now. I feel no disconnect from my character.

Jameliel

Compared to most popular MMOs, ESO had clunky combat. For some reason, writing about it leads to extreme denial and defense from some.

Elsonso

Yeah, this has been a problem for a long time, and people just adapt. Part of the problem is related to 'animation canceling' and part of the problem is that the server response to a skill is part of the feedback. With lag and latency, that latter bit can be after a delay. I find that animations get in the way, so if they are not canceled properly, you may find yourself waiting between skils just because of the animation feedback.

Anyway, that is how it seems to me.

Reverb

I too spam the buttons for some actions in ESO, a habit I developed almost immediately after I started playing it. Not only in combat, but when interacting with the environment. Everything except for looting has a sluggish response time, leading to an uncertainty that your input was accepted, or simply an impatient wish that the input was acted on more quickly.

I particularly do this with opening doors and using ultimates (click-click-click-click)

Dreepa

Reverb wrote: »

I too spam the buttons for some actions in ESO, a habit I developed almost immediately after I started playing it. Not only in combat, but when interacting with the environment. Everything except for looting has a sluggish response time, leading to an uncertainty that your input was accepted, or simply an impatient wish that the input was acted on more quickly.

I particularly do this with opening doors and using ultimates (click-click-click-click)

Yeah, that too. Totally same feel here.

If the GUI and UX flow would give you proper feedback about the state of the action (success, not success) you wouldn't need to do it.

Any good GUI / UX gives you a state-info on what's happening at the moment. It is basic UX design.

States such as:
"Activated"
"In Progress / Working"
"Canceled"
"Denied"
"Not executible right now"
etc.

What form or visual tool a GUI uses is secondary. Can be audio, color, state change, size change, greyscale, cooldown, transparancy change, audio clue, whatever really.

ESO basically has only "I have been pressed" feedback. And that's all.

Though I can understand that it might be related to hiding their technical limitations (ping, delay, zerg PvP lag spikes, etc.) and thus having a client with proper GUI feedback in sync with the server's viewpoint might be hard to do.

Even then, at least some improvements could be made I assume.

Tandor

Jameliel wrote: »

Compared to most popular MMOs, ESO had clunky combat. For some reason, writing about it leads to extreme denial and defense from some.

Probably because they don't notice it, or even experience it. Some people play with literally dozens of addons installed, several browser windows open, plus for good measure a wireless internet connection and then disbelieve those who don't find the game sluggish like they do !

I'm not saying everyone is in that category and that there aren't performance issues with the game for some people, but a lot of those issues aren't always just down to the game.

Stovahkiin

I’ve played several other MMOs over the years and I’m still inclined to say eso has the best combat, overall.

I never have to mash buttons over and over in combat, I press it once and the ability starts? That’s kinda all there is to it.

Dreepa

Stovahkiin wrote: »

I never have to mash buttons over and over in combat, I press it once and the ability starts? That’s kinda all there is to it.

Yes, that is the part that works fine.
But at which point on the timeline you are allowed to fire the next action, is not exactly shown. When pressing the button while the character is not ready for another action, you get no feedback that this button press is forfeit.

Since the button press is also not queued after the current action, it means you need to precisely know the timing of each animation. Or just spam the button to hit the earliest moment for the next action (to not lose on dps).