moved

SirCritical

Where is the poll?!

JKorr

SydneyGrey wrote: »

I am baffled at the people saying "no" to free stuff. Like ... WHY??????

My reason for not liking it much; if its an item I don't like the looks of, or an item that none of my characters would use, an item I'd never have bought, why would I want it? And if it works like the stuff from the rng crates, you can't get rid of it.

DieAlteHexe

JKorr wrote: »

SydneyGrey wrote: »

I am baffled at the people saying "no" to free stuff. Like ... WHY??????

My reason for not liking it much; if its an item I don't like the looks of, or an item that none of my characters would use, an item I'd never have bought, why would I want it? And if it works like the stuff from the rng crates, you can't get rid of it.

Doesn't the DESTROY bit work on stuff like that or do you mean things that end up in Collections (like mounts and ink etc.)? I think we're far more likely to see potions and scrolls etc. than "cooler" stuff but I understand what you mean. I've got rotting, flaming, dribbling mounts that I would love to be rid of. They could add a "I don't want to see these" to the list we already have in Collections I suppose.

Vahrokh

I want very nice rewards because I am so good, I can breath all by myself.

Self entitled crappy generation.

MornaBaine

You know I'm the first to say adults should not be denied something because the bad parenting of someone else will expose kids to it. I often complain that I think ESO is way too watered down for an M rated game. And yes, I agree that businesses are in it to make money. Here's the thing though... I want them to be ETHICAL and to make their money by offering a high quality product that people want. When a corporation stoops to playing headgames with its customers they have crossed a line. And I'm going to out myself as an old person here when I say: It's the principle of the thing. But it truly is.

Fix the lag. Fix the fact that this game is either WAY too easy or WAY too hard when it comes to content. Get rid of the gamble boxes. Offer the things we've actually ASKED for in the crown store. Do away with flash sales. A new "exclusive" house should sit in the store for a month before it goes away. Ditto all the ridiculous mounts. Don't expect me to pay in excess of $80.00 for a house composed of pixels. Don't game me by calling a slightly larger DLC a "chapter" so you can charge me the full price of the game for it. Go ahead and put in nudity and more blood in combat. Give us some quests worthy of the Real Barenzinah. Let Vivec get his freak on. Bring us all the wacky glory that really is in the lore of the Elder Scrolls. Stop making drop rates of things in the game so bad that players are literally forced to buy them in the cash shop if they actually want them. That's a low form of bait and switch.

Do all that and I'l GLADLY pay a $30.00 a month sub. I'll buy the DLC I want for $15 to $20 on top of that. Offer actual EXPANSIONS once or even twice a year and I'll drop that $40.00 on them without blinking. And quit spending the money I pay you to hire people whose sole job is teaching you how to better psychologically manipulate your customers. Offer me a genuinely quality product instead. I'll pay for it. Promise.

Minyassa

It got me to log in every day in LOTRO even if I didn't have time to play, but sometimes I would get sucked in anyway when I hadn't intended on playing, you know how that goes. Something to look forward to even if you know your friends aren't going to be on that day.

KanedaSyndrome

Definitely not. I'm sick and tired of loot box/loyalty rewards chaining me to a game. Let me play when I want to, not because I feel I have to login not to miss out.

KanedaSyndrome

Turelus wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Geekgirl wrote: »

It’s a gift.
I’m grateful for whatever I might receive.
It’s something that I didn’t have five minutes ago that someone gave me for potentially doing something that I was probably going to do anyway.

Why are we worrying about the quality of a free thing?

Beats me. I'm pretty much impervious to attempts to get me to do things I'm not up for, so the theory of "let's get 'em logged in" doesn't work on me. So, it's a freebie for doing what I was already going to do. Can't beat that.

That depends how it's done. If they do it the same was as TES Legends then you only get good stuff if you log in X number of times/month. Would the offer of some items push you to log in more often than you normally would?

How about they improve on the core game to get people to log in more instead of pointless loot in a game where everything that isn't PvP/Trial is too easy anyway.

DieAlteHexe

KanedaSyndrome wrote: »

Definitely not. I'm sick and tired of loot box/loyalty rewards chaining me to a game. Let me play when I want to, not because I feel I have to login not to miss out.

I used to feel that way about something sort of similar back in high school. The urge to not miss out (was for a book group thing. Read books and got prizes). I got to thinking about what would happen if I missed out and weighing it against what I could gain and made my decision from there.

I doubt there will be things given out as the "reward du jour" that are likely to inspire angst, or at least the odds of getting anything aside from scrolls, potions etc. will be astronomical.

Plus, it would take all of what...5 minutes assuming the servers aren't in comatose hamster mode. If missing out is a big concern, set aside 5 minutes to quickly log in and out and no missing out!

Kodrac

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

I used to feel that way about something sort of similar back in high school. The urge to not miss out (was for a book group thing. Read books and got prizes). I got to thinking about what would happen if I missed out and weighing it against what I could gain and made my decision from there.

That's called FOMO these days. Fear Of Missing Out. And it's exactly what they're trying to capitalize on.

DieAlteHexe

Kodrac wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

I used to feel that way about something sort of similar back in high school. The urge to not miss out (was for a book group thing. Read books and got prizes). I got to thinking about what would happen if I missed out and weighing it against what I could gain and made my decision from there.

That's called FOMO these days. Fear Of Missing Out. And it's exactly what they're trying to capitalize on.

Yeah, well, not to be flippant, but sounds like a personal problem. If people are that easily swayed, I'm not sure what to say. EVERY bit of marketing is about getting people to buy things and FOMO is and always has been a major method. "Keeping up with the Joneses". That or "you're just not cool if you don't buy our product". I think that's more harmful and likely to affect more people (especially young ones) than a concern over "gambling". And don't even get me started on what I call Boob-vertising". "Hey guys! If you buy this, you'll be a real hit with the ladies.".

It's all about temptation, sure. Absolutely, which is why I'm a bit bemused at the ire against a method (temptation, FOMO) that is all around us on a daily basis.

jedtb16_ESO

Kodrac wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

I used to feel that way about something sort of similar back in high school. The urge to not miss out (was for a book group thing. Read books and got prizes). I got to thinking about what would happen if I missed out and weighing it against what I could gain and made my decision from there.

That's called FOMO these days. Fear Of Missing Out. And it's exactly what they're trying to capitalize on.

it's something people need to get used to.... i say this as an old man.... you can't do and have everything. if you live your life by fomo you are going to be perpetually disappointed.

that is down to you.... no one else, just you.

ZOS_Mika

We have recently removed a great number of posts because of bashing and insulting commentary. This is a reminder to keep the discussion civil. While it is perfectly normal to disagree, all disagreements should be conducted in a constructive manner. Thank you for your understanding.

MornaBaine

KanedaSyndrome wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Geekgirl wrote: »

It’s a gift.
I’m grateful for whatever I might receive.
It’s something that I didn’t have five minutes ago that someone gave me for potentially doing something that I was probably going to do anyway.

Why are we worrying about the quality of a free thing?

Beats me. I'm pretty much impervious to attempts to get me to do things I'm not up for, so the theory of "let's get 'em logged in" doesn't work on me. So, it's a freebie for doing what I was already going to do. Can't beat that.

That depends how it's done. If they do it the same was as TES Legends then you only get good stuff if you log in X number of times/month. Would the offer of some items push you to log in more often than you normally would?

How about they improve on the core game to get people to log in more instead of pointless loot in a game where everything that isn't PvP/Trial is too easy anyway.

Exactly this. At this point the only reason I'm logging in is for roleplay. They'll get another chunk of money out of me for Summerset and its related goodies but unless there's a drastic change in direction that will be my last hurrah here.

MornaBaine

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Kodrac wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

I used to feel that way about something sort of similar back in high school. The urge to not miss out (was for a book group thing. Read books and got prizes). I got to thinking about what would happen if I missed out and weighing it against what I could gain and made my decision from there.

That's called FOMO these days. Fear Of Missing Out. And it's exactly what they're trying to capitalize on.

it's something people need to get used to.... i say this as an old man.... you can't do and have everything. if you live your life by fomo you are going to be perpetually disappointed.

that is down to you.... no one else, just you.

While this is true it is still a despicable tactic for a company to employ.

nwilliams2107b16_ESO

Guild wars 2 has been doing this for ages, tbh don't even notice it now.

DoctorESO

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DoctorESO

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DoctorESO

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DoctorESO

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DoctorESO

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wenchmore420b14_ESO

DoctorESO wrote: »

Would you take a free lottery ticket if someone gave you one each day? Or would you not take it because chances are, you will not win anything, and you will find that disappointing?

Beardimus wrote: »

Why the question Doctor, isn't that exactly what we are getting with Summerset anyway??

Not quite. Summerset is giving login rewards, but they are fixed, not random. And currently on the PTS, the reward is 10 gold.

This is what we can expect from Summerset....
"DAILY REWARDS
With Update 18 and Daily Rewards, you are rewarded simply by entering the game! When you log into ESO, you'll be able to claim a unique reward that can include different currencies (such as gold or Alliance Points) and consumables, and on specific milestones you can earn special rewards such as collectibles or Crown Crates from the very latest season. The first month even includes a new Psijic Mascot Guar Calf pet!
At the start of each month, the daily rewards will reset, with the amount of rewards you can claim varying month-to-month. If you can't log in and happen to miss a day, don't worry, the reward days are cumulative, meaning you won't lose progress and you can continue where you left off within the month. However, all progress does reset at the end of the month, and if you don't have enough days left to claim all of that month's rewards, you might miss out on some.

When you log into The Elder Scrolls Online, you'll see your available reward waiting to be claimed in the new announcement panel. You can claim it right there or when you log out. You can also navigate to the new “Daily Rewards" section of the Crown Store to claim your items, view future rewards, and see how many days are left before it resets. In order to be eligible for future rewards, you must claim any currently available daily rewards. If you do not claim a daily reward, the month's rewards will not progress. Note that to ensure everybody starts on equal footing, the first round of daily rewards will begin on June 5 for all platforms, not May 21 for early access PC/Mac users."

Iselin

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Kodrac wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

I used to feel that way about something sort of similar back in high school. The urge to not miss out (was for a book group thing. Read books and got prizes). I got to thinking about what would happen if I missed out and weighing it against what I could gain and made my decision from there.

That's called FOMO these days. Fear Of Missing Out. And it's exactly what they're trying to capitalize on.

it's something people need to get used to.... i say this as an old man.... you can't do and have everything. if you live your life by fomo you are going to be perpetually disappointed.

that is down to you.... no one else, just you.

That's all well and good but if you are an old gamer in addition to being an old man then you would remember the days before cash shops invaded gaming when the FOMO resolution consisted of doing things in the game to earn or get whatever the FOMO inducing item was. Now you open your wallet to resolve it and that's a totally different environment to play in.

High pressure and seductive advertising tricks were all around the real world back then too but gaming spaces were relatively free from that cancer and by virtue of that, among other things, they provided an escape from the most annoying aspects of every day life.

The push back we see today from players as games become progressively more and more predatory with their in-game marketing has nothing to do with wanting it all nor is it excusable by saying that this also exists in the real world - we know that, we have always known that but it's a relatively new thing in the virtual worlds of MMORPGs and we find it obnoxious HERE even though we have to tolerate their existence out there.

There is a lot of misunderstanding or willful misconstruction of what the fuss is all about. It's not about wanting it all for free. It is simply about getting these obtrusive annoyances out of gaming especially if we pay an optional monthly sub to play the game.

If they just want to give us free stuff because they're tickled pink that we log in and play the game so often, fine. I don't need those gifts nor did I ask for them but if they want to do it they can just mail them to me if and when I qualify.

But that's not what these log-in rewards are about: they are nothing but an excuse to splash their crown store ads at us inside the game in a larger format and more frequently - as in EVERY SINGLE LOG IN - whether a reward is waiting for you or just to inform you that one is coming in xx hours or minutes. This is nothing but an excuse to splash the ad at you more frequently and it's all it is.

DoctorESO

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Linaleah

uggh. reading how they want to do it, I'm honestly not happy at all. I'd rather they did it the way GW2, SWL or even WIldstar are doing it. there is no reset. rewards are fixed, and if you miss a few days, there is no reset, you just pick up where you left off. this way, while yeah you might be behind people who log in daily, there is no missing out and as such not fear of missing out, no obligation, just a little extra perk for playing that day.

MornaBaine

DoctorESO wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

When a corporation stoops to playing headgames with its customers they have crossed a line. And I'm going to out myself as an old person here when I say: It's the principle of the thing. But it truly is.

Aren't most commercials based on "head games"? What is the threshold? When companies play on people's compulsions/addictions?

I already pay a sub, I shouldn't be bombarded with ads for a service I pay for. Lots of things let you "opt out" of the obnoxious ads if you are a paying user. Still I can deal with it on log in if I can also just X right out of it and continue on my way. If it happens DURING my game play I'm going to find that jarring and highly irritating. My patience would end right there. That's one factor regarding my tolerance. The other is, of course commercials attempt to manipulate people. They have since the inception of advertising. I wrote a paper for a psychology class many years ago when we were studying just how advertisers USE psychology when crafting their ads. Mine was on the use of women in advertising, which overwhelmingly is done far more than using men in ads targeted to men AND women. To men women are used to essentially say, "Use our product and a hot woman like this can be yours!" To women an ad essentially says, "Use our product and you can BE this hot woman!" Both are outright lies of course and we've been trained to not only just shrug our shoulders over that fact and excuse the behavior of marketers but to accept that it's perfectly okay to do this in the pursuit of making money. We put the responsibility of whether or not a person falls for this nonsense squarely on the consumer. And that's fair to a degree. Buyer beware. Have the savvy to know when someone is attempting to scam you. What we've lost sight of is that it's really NOT OKAY for corporations and their advertisers to lie to us in the first place.

Taken to an extreme we might say, "Well of course Billy is a serial killer. I mean, he's insane. He can't NOT be a serial killer. But you already KNOW he's a serial killer so... just don't put yourself in the same room with him and some sharp knives. That's on you."

But now what we are starting to have in gaming goes far beyond the usual banal come on of, "Play our game and you can have this hot pixel chick!" and "Play our game and you can BE this hot pixel chick!" Now, once they've got you playing they start in with keeping you paying in B2P and F2P games such as this. And they do that NOT by producing a quality product that is so fun to play in a variety of ways that you WANT to keep paying them for further development and more content but by literally using stuff that goes clear back to Skinner to PSYCHOLOGICALLY MANIPULATE you into literally feeling COMPELLED to log in and to EXPERIENCE ANXIETY if you don't! Once a company has sunk to the point they are willing to do that to their customers... yeah I have a moral and ethical problem with that.

I love ESO. I really do. I'm still going to hand ZOS a big ol handful of cash for Summerset and many of its related goodies. And I don't mind doing that. Gaming is where I spend my entertainment dollars rather than going out to movies and restaurants every week. But if they don't back away from this disturbing trend and change direction in the practice of their gambling boxes and their cash store with its flash sales and their propensity to say, "Yes you can get this cool thing just by playing the game!" but then making its drop rate so abysmally low that to ever ACTUALLY get it if you really want it you are "forced" to purchase it from the cash shop... and now treating players like pigeons trained to turn in a circle to get a food pellet... it will be the last money they make off me.

I just want a high quality product that I'm happy to pay for. I DON'T want to have to be constantly on my guard so as not to fall victim to the machinations of morally bankrupt professional psychological manipulators.

DoctorESO

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DoctorESO

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MornaBaine

DoctorESO wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

When a corporation stoops to playing headgames with its customers they have crossed a line. And I'm going to out myself as an old person here when I say: It's the principle of the thing. But it truly is.

Aren't most commercials based on "head games"? What is the threshold? When companies play on people's compulsions/addictions?

I already pay a sub, I shouldn't be bombarded with ads for a service I pay for. Lots of things let you "opt out" of the obnoxious ads if you are a paying user. Still I can deal with it on log in if I can also just X right out of it and continue on my way. If it happens DURING my game play I'm going to find that jarring and highly irritating. My patience would end right there. That's one factor regarding my tolerance. The other is, of course commercials attempt to manipulate people. They have since the inception of advertising. I wrote a paper for a psychology class many years ago when we were studying just how advertisers USE psychology when crafting their ads. Mine was on the use of women in advertising, which overwhelmingly is done far more than using men in ads targeted to men AND women. To men women are used to essentially say, "Use our product and a hot woman like this can be yours!" To women an ad essentially says, "Use our product and you can BE this hot woman!" Both are outright lies of course and we've been trained to not only just shrug our shoulders over that fact and excuse the behavior of marketers but to accept that it's perfectly okay to do this in the pursuit of making money. We put the responsibility of whether or not a person falls for this nonsense squarely on the consumer. And that's fair to a degree. Buyer beware. Have the savvy to know when someone is attempting to scam you. What we've lost sight of is that it's really NOT OKAY for corporations and their advertisers to lie to us in the first place.

Taken to an extreme we might say, "Well of course Billy is a serial killer. I mean, he's insane. He can't NOT be a serial killer. But you already KNOW he's a serial killer so... just don't put yourself in the same room with him and some sharp knives. That's on you."

But now what we are starting to have in gaming goes far beyond the usual banal come on of, "Play our game and you can have this hot pixel chick!" and "Play our game and you can BE this hot pixel chick!" Now, once they've got you playing they start in with keeping you paying in B2P and F2P games such as this. And they do that NOT by producing a quality product that is so fun to play in a variety of ways that you WANT to keep paying them for further development and more content but by literally using stuff that goes clear back to Skinner to PSYCHOLOGICALLY MANIPULATE you into literally feeling COMPELLED to log in and to EXPERIENCE ANXIETY if you don't! Once a company has sunk to the point they are willing to do that to their customers... yeah I have a moral and ethical problem with that.

I love ESO. I really do. I'm still going to hand ZOS a big ol handful of cash for Summerset and many of its related goodies. And I don't mind doing that. Gaming is where I spend my entertainment dollars rather than going out to movies and restaurants every week. But if they don't back away from this disturbing trend and change direction in the practice of their gambling boxes and their cash store with its flash sales and their propensity to say, "Yes you can get this cool thing just by playing the game!" but then making its drop rate so abysmally low that to ever ACTUALLY get it if you really want it you are "forced" to purchase it from the cash shop... and now treating players like pigeons trained to turn in a circle to get a food pellet... it will be the last money they make off me.

I just want a high quality product that I'm happy to pay for. I DON'T want to have to be constantly on my guard so as not to fall victim to the machinations of morally bankrupt professional psychological manipulators.

Great, well-thought out post.

DoctorESO wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

When a corporation stoops to playing headgames with its customers they have crossed a line. And I'm going to out myself as an old person here when I say: It's the principle of the thing. But it truly is.

Aren't most commercials based on "head games"? What is the threshold? When companies play on people's compulsions/addictions?

I already pay a sub, I shouldn't be bombarded with ads for a service I pay for. Lots of things let you "opt out" of the obnoxious ads if you are a paying user. Still I can deal with it on log in if I can also just X right out of it and continue on my way. If it happens DURING my game play I'm going to find that jarring and highly irritating. My patience would end right there. That's one factor regarding my tolerance. The other is, of course commercials attempt to manipulate people. They have since the inception of advertising. I wrote a paper for a psychology class many years ago when we were studying just how advertisers USE psychology when crafting their ads. Mine was on the use of women in advertising, which overwhelmingly is done far more than using men in ads targeted to men AND women. To men women are used to essentially say, "Use our product and a hot woman like this can be yours!" To women an ad essentially says, "Use our product and you can BE this hot woman!" Both are outright lies of course and we've been trained to not only just shrug our shoulders over that fact and excuse the behavior of marketers but to accept that it's perfectly okay to do this in the pursuit of making money. We put the responsibility of whether or not a person falls for this nonsense squarely on the consumer. And that's fair to a degree. Buyer beware. Have the savvy to know when someone is attempting to scam you. What we've lost sight of is that it's really NOT OKAY for corporations and their advertisers to lie to us in the first place.

Taken to an extreme we might say, "Well of course Billy is a serial killer. I mean, he's insane. He can't NOT be a serial killer. But you already KNOW he's a serial killer so... just don't put yourself in the same room with him and some sharp knives. That's on you."

But now what we are starting to have in gaming goes far beyond the usual banal come on of, "Play our game and you can have this hot pixel chick!" and "Play our game and you can BE this hot pixel chick!" Now, once they've got you playing they start in with keeping you paying in B2P and F2P games such as this. And they do that NOT by producing a quality product that is so fun to play in a variety of ways that you WANT to keep paying them for further development and more content but by literally using stuff that goes clear back to Skinner to PSYCHOLOGICALLY MANIPULATE you into literally feeling COMPELLED to log in and to EXPERIENCE ANXIETY if you don't! Once a company has sunk to the point they are willing to do that to their customers... yeah I have a moral and ethical problem with that.

I love ESO. I really do. I'm still going to hand ZOS a big ol handful of cash for Summerset and many of its related goodies. And I don't mind doing that. Gaming is where I spend my entertainment dollars rather than going out to movies and restaurants every week. But if they don't back away from this disturbing trend and change direction in the practice of their gambling boxes and their cash store with its flash sales and their propensity to say, "Yes you can get this cool thing just by playing the game!" but then making its drop rate so abysmally low that to ever ACTUALLY get it if you really want it you are "forced" to purchase it from the cash shop... and now treating players like pigeons trained to turn in a circle to get a food pellet... it will be the last money they make off me.

I just want a high quality product that I'm happy to pay for. I DON'T want to have to be constantly on my guard so as not to fall victim to the machinations of morally bankrupt professional psychological manipulators.

Great, well-thought out post.

Thank you. I just wish more people could actually SEE what's going on here and react appropriately... by not falling for it, by giving Zenimax and Bethesda holy hell for it, and by cutting off the cash that keeps encouraging them to treat their customers this way.