Magickal Tanking: Alteration Staff Skill Line

Vercingetorix

Another major expansion and ice staves are still trash. Why? Trying to slap on a half-baked tanking mechanic to a DPS skill line weapon is BAD. The answer is to have a skill line for magic users DEDICATED to tanking, with passives to augment and support it. Alteration is one of the two schools of magic that ESO has not bothered to delve into and there's an opportunity to fix two problems at the same time. Alteration magic is defensive in nature, providing protection, altering defenses, and providing utility effects.

An Alteration Staff skill line can fix this issue:
- Heavy attacks would restore magicka and blocking with Alteration staves consumes magicka. A passive will unlock the ability to use HA's to taunt, allowing players to CHOOSE if they want to only use Alteration magic for utility. Alteration attack animation is similar to the lightning/resto staff.
- With Alteration staves taking over the role of magical tanking, Ice staves can be re-focused on damage, providing Minor Breach instead of Minor Maim, simulating the effect of making an enemies' defenses brittle and their reaction time slowed with snare/root effects on Elemental Blockade.
- Ice staves being a useful damage outlet that provides a degree of CC and debuff gives Wardens a weapon that allows them to synergize with their existing, amazing buffs.

Alteration Staff Skills:
- Transmute Flesh: Caster alters their flesh into a hardened metal, gaining Minor Ward and Minor Resolve for 20 seconds.
- Morph 1: Enemies striking the caster are afflicted with Minor Maim for 15 seconds. (Tanking focused)
- Morph 2: Reduced cost and caster also gains Minor Expedition for 15 seconds. (Utility focused)

- Burden: Caster fires a blast of energy in a targeted 8m radius area, snaring all enemies in the area by 30% and inflicting them with Major Breach for 15 seconds.
- Morph 1: Targets in the area are also afflicted with Major Fracture. (Tanking focused)
- Morph 2: Also deals X damage each second in the target area and increases the snare to 40%. (PvP focused)

- Molt: Caster magically sheds off malignant effects, purging up to 2 negative effects.
- Morph 1: Caster also purges 1 negative effect from a nearby ally.
- Morph 2: Reduced cost.

- Vex: Deals X magic damage to a target enemy, afflicting them with Minor Breach and taunting them for 15 seconds.(Ranged taunt with short cast time.)
- Morph 1: Target is also afflicted with Minor Fracture for 15 seconds.
- Morph 2: Target is also afflicted with Major Maim for 10 seconds.

- Illuminate: Caster summons a Magelight that occasionally blinds nearby enemies and provides Minor Protection for 25 seconds.
- Morph 1: Magelight now will attack nearby enemies with small blasts of light dealing X magic damage. (Yes, it's counted as a pet as well!)
- Morph 2: No longer provides Minor Protection and instead attaches to a target enemy, inflicting them with Minor Vulnerability for 15 seconds.

Ultimate (250) - Mass Transmogrify: Caster unleashes a large blast of energy, dealing X magic damage and afflicts enemies in a 12m radius with Major Mangle, lowering their maximum health by 15% for 10 seconds.
- Morph 1: Increases the damage dealt and the duration to 12 seconds.
- Morph 2: Duration is reduced to 8 seconds, but affected enemies are also snared by 30% and effect cannot be purged.

Passives:
- Reduces the cost of blocking by 20%/36% while an Alteration staff is equipped. Fully charged heavy attacks taunt enemies struck for 10/15 seconds.
- Blocking an enemy's melee attack with an Alteration staff afflicts that enemy with Minor Magickasteal for 5/10 seconds.
- Decrease the duration of negative effects on you by 10%/20% while an Alteration staff is equipped.
- Blocked incoming enemy projectiles have a 5%/10% chance of being reflected back to the attacker.
- Attacking an enemy while affected by a negative effect has a 5%/10% chance to transfer the negative effect to the target.


Well, that's it. Let me know what you all think. I honestly think this a much better solution when the alternative is gimping an entire elemental damage type and giving poor magicka wardens the shaft. Obviously these changes can't be implemented now in Summerset, but a future DLC could feature these changes. Magical tanking is a neat thing - it was just poorly implemented with frost staves. Tanking NEEDS a skill line dedicated to it - magical tanking should be no different.

EDIT: Made a change to Vex so that its taunt is no longer AoE based. I still feel that heavy attacks should provide the taunt so that they have a unique utility that separates the Alteration staff from Sword and Shield. Thanks for the feedback everyone!

AlnilamE

Why staves?

Can't we have orbs for a change?

Kodrac

AlnilamE wrote: »

Why staves?

Can't we have orbs for a change?

Or a glowing sword? I get tired of sticks.

logarifmik

This is much better, than questionable ice stave tanking we have now. If something like OP suggests will ever happen, we need new animations for blocking with staves. Pretty please? In addition to what OP said, I think that lorewise a tanking with Illusion school would be a decent option as well. Maybe it can be a separate skill line with both illusion and alteration staves.

Dasovaruilos

Those ideas are actually quite good!

The only issue I have is tauting via light attack as a passive. I don't think this should be a thing. Taunting should be an ACTIVE, intentional and expensive act, since they designed the game where they don't want you to taunt everything.

Second issue is that they said time and time again that AOE taunt is not on the plans for ESO, because of that philosophy, so that skill needed to be reworked.

I really think another weapon dedicated to Magicka tanking and support is needed and return frost staves to DPS weapons.

CurlyQTip

Tbh I always wanted an alternative to resto staves for healing. It'd be amazing to have a staff that's hybrid both for support, buffs, and tanking.

Vercingetorix

@CalmFury If you reread my post you’ll see I tied the taunt passive to a fully charged heavy attack.

StoicSunbro

I very much support the core part of this idea: Replace Ice Staves with an Alteration staff purpose-built for tanking/support.

Not sure about your implementation though.

There are some skills from prior games that would make sense. Telekinesis (like Chains) and Mass Paralysis (like Talons) immediately come to mind. Although I don't want reskinned copies so they should have some different effects and usage.

I also wouldn't mind making some of the morphs attractive for Healers by providing some group buffs and sustain.

Chaos2088

Could not agree more with op!

Lynx7386

So you want to add a weapon, which will require doing 9 trait research all over again and thematically is no different than the other staves we already have, with an aoe taunt, purge, more block cost reduction than shields, a free spell reflect, the list goes on.

Bad idea. There's a reason zenimax chose the unused ice staves for tanking: minimal work for maximum effect.

Frost needs some tweaks but it isn't as bad as you people are claiming, nor will it ever be a viable dps option without displacing fire or lightning staves which would *** off half of the game's population

Dasovaruilos

Vercingetorix wrote: »

@CalmFury If you reread my post you’ll see I tied the taunt passive to a fully charged heavy attack.

Sorry, I meant to write heavy... I think it should be a skill only. But other than that the general idea is really nice. I really liked it.

StoicSunbro

Lynx7386 wrote: »

So you want to add a weapon, which will require doing 9 trait research all over again and thematically is no different than the other staves we already have, with an aoe taunt, purge, more block cost reduction than shields, a free spell reflect, the list goes on.

Bad idea. There's a reason zenimax chose the unused ice staves for tanking: minimal work for maximum effect.

Frost needs some tweaks but it isn't as bad as you people are claiming, nor will it ever be a viable dps option without displacing fire or lightning staves which would *** off half of the game's population

DPS Weapons:
Stamina: Dagger, sword, axe, mace; Greatsword, Battleaxe, Maul; Bow.
Magicka: Fire, Lightning

That's a huge disparity even if ice staves were returned to DPS.

Adding more weapons grants more build diversity and I'll happily take that if it means more research and a bigger loot table. It will certainly gives players more to do.

As a tank, I'd love to try an Alteration Staff. As a Magwarden DPS, I'd be happy to see ice be a viable option.

I encourage ZOS to go further too. Conjured dual wield weapons (melee magicka), crossbow (pure stam range), conjuration staves, Illusion staves, Spears. Each one, mixed and matched with existing weapons and the various classes multiplies the amount of possible builds. More weapons please.

AlnilamE

Kodrac wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Why staves?

Can't we have orbs for a change?

Or a glowing sword? I get tired of sticks.

Kodrac wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Why staves?

Can't we have orbs for a change?

Or a glowing sword? I get tired of sticks.

But a sword is just a pointy stick. Think outside the box!

ProfessorKittyhawk

Someone get OP a job at ZOS. We needed this 4 years ago.

Yamenstein

Love it. Other than Vex I'm not a fan of AOE taunts. No strategy behind them and it's not required. This game only has a couple of enemies that need to be taunted at one time. Otherwise it will become way to easy for DPS and healers. No risk for them at all basically.

Doctordarkspawn

Rework the multi-taunt because ZOS would never go for it.

Rework it into a standard taunt with spell resist debuff, able to be morphed into both. Just make it a ranged version of puncture.

Nobody likes the 'taunt on heavy' thing.

Otherwise? Good way to do it, I applaud you, I'd love to see this become a reality.

Gnortranermara

Agreed. Introduce Alteration tanking and restore Frost to its proper place as a DPS alternative.

HJSmith24

Nice!

MattT1988

Your ideas are interesting but I saw one of the abilities included an AOE taunt. That probably won’t get a lot of support.

Kali_Despoine

Ice staves have always been op for dps that is why they were nerfed to a tanking weapon.
ヽ(｀⌒´)ノ

Vercingetorix

@Doctordarkspawn @MattT1988 I’ve seen that the AoE taunt is a bit much, so I reworked it into a ranged single target ability with some debuffs to make it competitive with the heavy attack taunt option. I figure the heavy attack can be an emergency option to pull a mob away from a group and the Vex taunt can be more preemptive. Thanks for your feedback.

EDS604

really like your ideas, gave you an awesome, though i think the numbers should be tweaked a little. with the current numbers on the skills, everyone would take alteration staff of sword and board for tanking :P

Vercingetorix

@EDS604 Keep on mind that the numbers listed are largely placeholders and of course subject to change. I picked an eyeballed amount just to illustrate the ability or passive. I’d imagine ZoS would tweak the numbers for balance. Thanks for the feedback.

Jade1986

Were there NO buffs to frost staffs to make them more viable? Seriously?

Im just...I cant....I mean....

ZOS, WHY YOU DO THIS?!

Jade1986

These are phenomenal ideas. ZOS TAKE NOTE PLEASE! Seriously, this needs to happen, and makes way more sense than ice staves being for tanking....kinda.

Jailbirdy

Why not make it a Wand? (with a lil star on the end)

New weapon line: Sticks

Thorstienn

The problem with Ice staves at the moment, is they just whacked tanking onto it through passives when they should of just made a few of destro staves morphs be tank related with Ice; (just example) destructive clench unchanged, destructive reach no longer immobilized or applies dot with Ice staff, instead applies major fracture and taunts.
Re OP. Alterations staffs is too OP. Unlike how 1hand shield does everything Ice staff does but better and more, now alteration does everything 1hand shield does but better and more;
Transmute flesh: minor ward and resolve (class buffs) plus effectively passive AoE maim vs single target active maim.
Burden: range targeted AoE snare and major debuffs vs single target melee snare and major debuffs (different skills but that's not the problem here)
Molt: situational, 1hand shield doesn't have, but I have no problem with this skill as it's gives something different.
Vex: ranged taunt (understandable) plus minor debuffs (who needs templar dps anymore?) Vs no access to these debuffs.
Ultimate: AoE damage plus AoE debuff (granted I've never used pulsar, so not sure how mangle works, but seems OP in execute phase, surely it doesn't work how I think it sounds?) for 8/12s Vs passive mitigation plus cost reduction (on typically 2 used abilities) OR projectile reflection for 6s (far reduced cost)
If people disagree with my analysis that's fine, I'm no pro, just my opinion.
Overall, your idea is solid and at least isn't just a carbon copy of 1hand shield with range and magicka.

TL:DR I like the concept, but does everything 1h and shield does, but more and better. Would prefer Ice staves had tanking morphs.

TheShadowScout

Neat ideas, I took the inspiration and made up my own take on it for my: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/371862/additional-weapon-skill-ideas-mk-ii/p1

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Warding Staff
It seems somewhat clumsy to have a destruction staff as a main weapon as magica tank, so… why not give ice back to doing damage and slowing enemies, and make up a completely new weapon for tanky uses? One that uses magicka to block, obviously, and maybe has the taunt heavy attack, or maybe not (since it can get a skill for that)
Skills:
• Hex Bolt (magic projectile, does damage, taunt and physical defense)
- Morph1: Hex Volley (+ fires up to three bolts at nearby enemies)
- Morph2: Jinx Bolt (+ snare / duration)
• Empowered Ward (damage shield, recovers shield strength if blocking while active)
- Morph1: Enchanted Ward (+ spell resistance while active)
- Morph2: Empowered Barrier (+ physical resistance while active)
• Burdening Seal (AoE cast at location, snare and reduce spell defense / duration)
- Morph1: Enfeebling Seal (+ reduce physical damage wile in AoE)
- Morph2: Burdening Hex (+ magic DoT while in AoE)
• Warding Enchantment (increase spell resistance / duration)
- Morph1: Protective Enchantment (+ increase physical resistance)
- Morph2: Warding Aura (+ AoE around caster, affecting all allies in range)
• Guardian Wisp (summons a wisp pet that will increase magicka, and deny stealth to enemies)
- Morph1: Avenging Wisp (+ wisp will also launch magic attacks to nearby enemies)
- Morph2: Guardian Spirit (+ spell resistance, wisp is bigger and golden)
Ultimate: Warding Barrier (Large AoE, damage resistance to allies within, blocks enemy entry)
- Morph1: Imbued Barrier (+ resource recovery boots to allies within)
- Morph2: Warding Seal (+ blocks enemy movement out of the area as well, trapping them inside)
Passives:
• Enchantments: increase duration for taunts and debuffs
• Sanctuary: reduced skill cost and lowered blocking cost
• Mystic Power: increase magicka recovery / ward ability slotted
• Hardened Ward: allows to block more damage
• Mana Manipulation: blocked spells have a chance to reflect at the caster

SassiestAssassin

StoicSunbro wrote: »

I also wouldn't mind making some of the morphs attractive for Healers by providing some group buffs and sustain.

As a healer, I agree! It would be super cool to have more options to apply group buffs and debuffs. Especially for non-meta classes.

JadonSky

I have seen this idea with make an alteration staff skill line and like the idea every time. I do agree with others though the look of staffs is getting pretty boring. Not sure what else they could replace it with though. I mean really you only hold a staff one handed so having a staff/shield would be kinda cool looking or shield and rune.

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Another major expansion and ice staves are still trash. Why? Trying to slap on a half-baked tanking mechanic to a DPS skill line weapon is BAD. The answer is to have a skill line for magic users DEDICATED to tanking, with passives to augment and support it. Alteration is one of the two schools of magic that ESO has not bothered to delve into and there's an opportunity to fix two problems at the same time. Alteration magic is defensive in nature, providing protection, altering defenses, and providing utility effects.

An Alteration Staff skill line can fix this issue:
- Heavy attacks would restore magicka and blocking with Alteration staves consumes magicka. A passive will unlock the ability to use HA's to taunt, allowing players to CHOOSE if they want to only use Alteration magic for utility. Alteration attack animation is similar to the lightning/resto staff.
- With Alteration staves taking over the role of magical tanking, Ice staves can be re-focused on damage, providing Minor Breach instead of Minor Maim, simulating the effect of making an enemies' defenses brittle and their reaction time slowed with snare/root effects on Elemental Blockade.
- Ice staves being a useful damage outlet that provides a degree of CC and debuff gives Wardens a weapon that allows them to synergize with their existing, amazing buffs.

Alteration Staff Skills:
- Transmute Flesh: Caster alters their flesh into a hardened metal, gaining Minor Ward and Minor Resolve for 20 seconds.
- Morph 1: Enemies striking the caster are afflicted with Minor Maim for 15 seconds. (Tanking focused)
- Morph 2: Reduced cost and caster also gains Minor Expedition for 15 seconds. (Utility focused)

- Burden: Caster fires a blast of energy in a targeted 8m radius area, snaring all enemies in the area by 30% and inflicting them with Major Breach for 15 seconds.
- Morph 1: Targets in the area are also afflicted with Major Fracture. (Tanking focused)
- Morph 2: Also deals X damage each second in the target area and increases the snare to 40%. (PvP focused)

- Molt: Caster magically sheds off malignant effects, purging up to 2 negative effects.
- Morph 1: Caster also purges 1 negative effect from a nearby ally.
- Morph 2: Reduced cost.

- Vex: Deals X magic damage to a target enemy, afflicting them with Minor Breach and taunting them for 15 seconds.(Ranged taunt with short cast time.)
- Morph 1: Target is also afflicted with Minor Fracture for 15 seconds.
- Morph 2: Target is also afflicted with Major Maim for 10 seconds.

- Illuminate: Caster summons a Magelight that occasionally blinds nearby enemies and provides Minor Protection for 25 seconds.
- Morph 1: Magelight now will attack nearby enemies with small blasts of light dealing X magic damage. (Yes, it's counted as a pet as well!)
- Morph 2: No longer provides Minor Protection and instead attaches to a target enemy, inflicting them with Minor Vulnerability for 15 seconds.

Ultimate (250) - Mass Transmogrify: Caster unleashes a large blast of energy, dealing X magic damage and afflicts enemies in a 12m radius with Major Mangle, lowering their maximum health by 15% for 10 seconds.
- Morph 1: Increases the damage dealt and the duration to 12 seconds.
- Morph 2: Duration is reduced to 8 seconds, but affected enemies are also snared by 30% and effect cannot be purged.

Passives:
- Reduces the cost of blocking by 20%/36% while an Alteration staff is equipped. Fully charged heavy attacks taunt enemies struck for 10/15 seconds.
- Blocking an enemy's melee attack with an Alteration staff afflicts that enemy with Minor Magickasteal for 5/10 seconds.
- Decrease the duration of negative effects on you by 10%/20% while an Alteration staff is equipped.
- Blocked incoming enemy projectiles have a 5%/10% chance of being reflected back to the attacker.
- Attacking an enemy while affected by a negative effect has a 5%/10% chance to transfer the negative effect to the target.


Well, that's it. Let me know what you all think. I honestly think this a much better solution when the alternative is gimping an entire elemental damage type and giving poor magicka wardens the shaft. Obviously these changes can't be implemented now in Summerset, but a future DLC could feature these changes. Magical tanking is a neat thing - it was just poorly implemented with frost staves. Tanking NEEDS a skill line dedicated to it - magical tanking should be no different.

EDIT: Made a change to Vex so that its taunt is no longer AoE based. I still feel that heavy attacks should provide the taunt so that they have a unique utility that separates the Alteration staff from Sword and Shield. Thanks for the feedback everyone!

ZOS, hire this guy.