Why Are 2H Melee Weapons Getting LA + HA Nerfs?

Vapirko

Can someone explain the logic? If LA are for damage and HA for resources why are 2H melee weapons the only ones getting nerfed in both categories while other weapons are getting buffs in one area and I think staves get buffed in both? For that matter why do staves get buffed in both areas while even 1h melee weapons and bows only get buffed for light?

casparian

I'm pretty sure the 2H "nerf" is just to keep it in line with DW next patch. I don't think the patch notes are intended to convey that 2H LA damage will be less in Summerset than it currently is on live, once the overall LA buff is taken into accout.

Vapirko

casparian wrote: »

I'm pretty sure the 2H "nerf" is just to keep it in line with DW next patch. I don't think the patch notes are intended to convey that 2H LA damage will be less in Summerset than it currently is on live, once the overall LA buff is taken into accout.

Okay let’s say that’s true, is the same true when it comes to destro? That it’s gonna be all kept in line?

Checkmath

because 2h heavy attacks did way more damage than dual wield or destro heavy attacks. easy explanation. its not about buffing light and neerf heavy attacks. overall light and heavies now scale better with your max magicka pool. thats why destro attacks got a buff for both. dual wield gets also buffed, because its damage wasnt that high compared to a 2h attack. it is first off to encourage weaving more and second to bring the damage in line again.

b.bredfeldtub17_ESO

2H was already behind DW in terms of DPS, so I don't really know why they're getting these nerfs. I thought the point of the changes was to bring them up to DW builds.

Beardimus

Maybe cos 2H is OP as heck right now

b.bredfeldtub17_ESO

Beardimus wrote: »

Maybe cos 2H is OP as heck right now

I'm going to guess you primarily pvp?

reprosal

The stam coefficient should stay the same as the dual wield change while the mag should stay reduced. Only due to the sheer differences in max magicka vs max stam pools.

Pet sorcs on PTS with 47k magicka are doing double the damage with light attacks. Having heavy attacks be the same ratio would be insane..

lazerlaz

b.bredfeldtub17_ESO wrote: »

2H was already behind DW in terms of DPS, so I don't really know why they're getting these nerfs. I thought the point of the changes was to bring them up to DW builds.

Not in PVP. 2h heavy does way more than DW heavy against a player right now.

I'm PVE however... Ahh who gives a shi*. It's PVE!

reprosal

lazerlaz wrote: »

b.bredfeldtub17_ESO wrote: »

2H was already behind DW in terms of DPS, so I don't really know why they're getting these nerfs. I thought the point of the changes was to bring them up to DW builds.

Not in PVP. 2h heavy does way more than DW heavy against a player right now.

I'm PVE however... Ahh who gives a shi*. It's PVE!

And this is why PvE suffers. PvP want balance but always at the cost of PvE being screwed.

MerlinPendragon

2H weps should get buff, not nerf

Leemado

Has anyone had a chance to test in PTS how the 2H LA nerf compares to other stamina weapons, lets say DW? Im interested in this since I main a 2H stamina char and I only PVE.

Leemado

lazerlaz wrote: »

b.bredfeldtub17_ESO wrote: »

2H was already behind DW in terms of DPS, so I don't really know why they're getting these nerfs. I thought the point of the changes was to bring them up to DW builds.

Not in PVP. 2h heavy does way more than DW heavy against a player right now.

I'm PVE however... Ahh who gives a shi*. It's PVE!

but are Light attacks that relevant in PVP to nerf 2H? it will have a big impact in PVE making 2H even less performing in PVE than it already is comparing it to DW. Isn't the damage relevant to PVP coming from skills like dizzing swing or reverce slice? (im seriously asking this since i dont do PVP)

Checkmath

2h is used for pvp, because it offers a gapcloser, a hardhitting cc (ok dizzying swing doesnt get used as mich anymore), a very nice execute and the best is momentum. Either it is a huge heal or a snare removal and immunity skill. Thats the skill why 2h is used for pvp. And also because it has some bursty damage. Pvp is all about burst and heal, thats why dual wield is less used in pvp. But the other way round, 2h is useless in pve, because pve is about sustained damage. 2h will not be competitive in pve, not because of the nerf to heavies and lights now, just because it has no real dps skills.

Vapirko

Beardimus wrote: »

Maybe cos 2H is OP as heck right now

This jsut isn’t true. More and more players are turning to dw and Sb because of how unreliable 2H is against anyone who knows what they’re doing. I’ve played stam for a long time and dw is just so much better right now for reliably dishing out damage and going through permablock builds.

Also seems to be a lot of apposing views here. Does anyone actually have numbers to prove this change makes sense? Or is this just another instance where ZOS is catering to all the people getting mashed by 2H becuswe they don’t know how to play.

SmellyUnlimited

Checkmath wrote: »

because 2h heavy attacks did way more damage than dual wield or destro heavy attacks. easy explanation. its not about buffing light and neerf heavy attacks. overall light and heavies now scale better with your max magicka pool. thats why destro attacks got a buff for both. dual wield gets also buffed, because its damage wasnt that high compared to a 2h attack. it is first off to encourage weaving more and second to bring the damage in line again.

Yeah, but the animation for 2H heavy attack is longer than DW, thus the higher damage.

Beardimus wrote: »

Maybe cos 2H is OP as heck right now

Nothing has changed with 2H compared to DW. If it’s “OP as heck”right now, then it’s always been that way. But it’s not. 2H is good because it offers stam classes (except for NB) a gap closer and a burst heal/major brut. It’s not because the damage from 2H is significantly more. In fact, a lot of players use 2H just as a buff bar/movement bar, and DW for damage,

Khivas_Carrick

I prefer 2H as my DMG bar because I prefer 2H over DW, always have in my games, always will.

That said, this is a dumb nerf and it should've been left as is because from a PvE standpoint, 2H was just now becoming anywhere even close with DW.

Emma_Overload

reprosal wrote: »

The stam coefficient should stay the same as the dual wield change while the mag should stay reduced. Only due to the sheer differences in max magicka vs max stam pools.

Pet sorcs on PTS with 47k magicka are doing double the damage with light attacks. Having heavy attacks be the same ratio would be insane..

Why are you ignoring all these Stamina builds with 5000 weapon damage? The whole REASON for the changes is to bring Magicka builds up to where Stamina builds have been forever.

Darkonflare15

Or maybe sense 2h has a DPS skill that grants empower which now increases the next light attack damage by 40%.

Vapirko

Emma_Overload wrote: »

reprosal wrote: »

The stam coefficient should stay the same as the dual wield change while the mag should stay reduced. Only due to the sheer differences in max magicka vs max stam pools.

Pet sorcs on PTS with 47k magicka are doing double the damage with light attacks. Having heavy attacks be the same ratio would be insane..

Why are you ignoring all these Stamina builds with 5000 weapon damage? The whole REASON for the changes is to bring Magicka builds up to where Stamina builds have been forever.

I play a lot more stam classes than I do mag, I find stamina way more fun, but having played magplar and magblade a fair amount I find magblade to very very strong but harder for 1vX although that’s prob just an l2p issue. Magplar makes for a decent 1vX but lacks good ultimate. Point is any magicka weakness is class based and not wpn or spell damage. My magblade feels every bit as strong as my stam builds it’s just a matter of a different play style.

raj72616a

i've asked and been told by guildies that it's because 2H weapon has higher base damage than any other weapon, so it has to be brought to line with bow and staves.

SmellyUnlimited

raj72616a wrote: »

i've asked and been told by guildies that it's because 2H weapon has higher base damage than any other weapon, so it has to be brought to line with bow and staves.

It’s ability driven; the weapon damage for a nirn 2H will be the same as the spell dmg from a nirn Staff. The difference as to why it’s perceived to hit harder is because it has a great execute that works at 50%, heavy attacks can empower the next light attack, and the cleave damage/bleed from brawler is significant. Damage-wise, they all result in the same net weapon/spell power gain, but the abilities are what distinguishes it.

Also, 2H abilities overall are more conducive to PvP, whereas absent destructive reach, most staff abilities are PvE oriented.

negbert

Didn’t they do more damage to try and offset the fact that they only counted as 1 piece? This will no longer be the case. Having them count as 2 pieces is a massive buff.

Leemado

negbert wrote: »

Didn’t they do more damage to try and offset the fact that they only counted as 1 piece? This will no longer be the case. Having them count as 2 pieces is a massive buff.

No, bows and staves also counted as one piece and now they are getting a buff, 2h on the contrary are getting nerfed.

reprosal

Emma_Overload wrote: »

reprosal wrote: »

The stam coefficient should stay the same as the dual wield change while the mag should stay reduced. Only due to the sheer differences in max magicka vs max stam pools.

Pet sorcs on PTS with 47k magicka are doing double the damage with light attacks. Having heavy attacks be the same ratio would be insane..

Why are you ignoring all these Stamina builds with 5000 weapon damage? The whole REASON for the changes is to bring Magicka builds up to where Stamina builds have been forever.

The trade off for stam and magicka is medium armor passives add 12% weapon damage whereas light armor adds 4994 penetration. The penetration far outweighs 12% weapon damage. Now that light attacks are going to be scaling the same as abilities do with max resource pools, magicka is going to be buffed out the yazoo compared to a 2h melee weapon.

(I don't really care either way so I am not being bias, I play all DW stam toons and a magblade).

KanedaSyndrome

There's no logic in a world where heavy attack regenerates ressource. ESO combat system is a gimmick.

Vapirko

KanedaSyndrome wrote: »

There's no logic in a world where heavy attack regenerates ressource. ESO combat system is a gimmick.

Thats not really the part that bothers me. I think its a good mechanic. Im just perplexed as to why 2H melee weapons are getting light and heavy attacks nerfed while staves are getting both buffed. There are a lot of speculative answers, subjective answers etc, but no one seems to really know why. 2H already had their gap closer nerfed pretty hard. Staves already have the advantage of being ranged. What I see are people asking staves to be brought on par with 2H melee weapons. But what people seem to forget or to not want to recognize is that staves are already very strong and ranged on top of that. 2H builds are all forced into the same couple of skills for every build on every class. This is not true of magicka builds. Further buffing staves while nerfing 2H melee weapons is going to push them way over the top.

itsfatbass

Vapirko wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

I'm pretty sure the 2H "nerf" is just to keep it in line with DW next patch. I don't think the patch notes are intended to convey that 2H LA damage will be less in Summerset than it currently is on live, once the overall LA buff is taken into accout.

Okay let’s say that’s true, is the same true when it comes to destro? That it’s gonna be all kept in line?

Destro needs a buff to be brought in line with Dw etc.

itsfatbass

KanedaSyndrome wrote: »

There's no logic in a world where heavy attack regenerates ressource. ESO combat system is a gimmick.

Then dont play it... cause I 100% disagree with ya.

Leemado

itsfatbass wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

I'm pretty sure the 2H "nerf" is just to keep it in line with DW next patch. I don't think the patch notes are intended to convey that 2H LA damage will be less in Summerset than it currently is on live, once the overall LA buff is taken into accout.

Okay let’s say that’s true, is the same true when it comes to destro? That it’s gonna be all kept in line?

Destro needs a buff to be brought in line with Dw etc.

I dont know why this turned into a fight between staves and 2h... this should be about DW vs 2H!