How will the 2h summerset changes work?

Ectheliontnacil

I have a question.

I am not entirely certain how this change to 2h weapons in Summerset works. Will a 2h weapon simply count as 2 pieces of a set or will we have 2 slots for 2h weapons?

If the former is the case, I am a bit worried for backbarring. Sets like lich will become relatively useless, since you'd either need to keep 4 body pieces or lose out on 1 regen bonus while on the other bar. Only in very few circumstances would I consider backbarring in the new patch and I really hope that we will have 2 slots for our 2h weapons instead of just one. This way 2h weapons would become like 1h/s and dw and would still permit the use of lich, trans, wizards, senche etc.

Carbonised

1 twohanded weapon will simply count as 2 set pieces.

Ectheliontnacil

Ah what a shame! Rip lich

I really hope they'll change this!

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

Ah what a shame! Rip lich

I really hope they'll change this!

What would make lich any less useful?

Ectheliontnacil

@Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

The fact that backbarring a weapon will make you miss out on 1set bonus when on the other bar.

Say you use 3 body pieces instead of 4 and 1lich resto staff. This will free up 1 slot but since you miss out on the regen bonus your build will only be marginally more powerful than it was before. You might as well run 4 pieces of lich on the body like before.

So now that the added benefit from backbarring (1 more slot) has been removed, I think simple, non backbarable sets will be the better option.

Laenendil

I'm not sure to understand what you mean ?

Backbar were mostly used in the case you had a 5 pieces bonus, monster set and no option for a permanent other 5 pieces bonus. Now you can have two five bonus pieces and your 2 pieces monster set. Why would you need a backbar ?

Chrlynsch

Like finding a bag of money and complaining it is too heavy...

Ectheliontnacil

Laenendil wrote: »

I'm not sure to understand what you mean ?

Backbar were mostly used in the case you had a 5 pieces bonus, monster set and no option for a permanent other 5 pieces bonus. Now you can have two five bonus pieces and your 2 pieces monster set. Why would you need a backbar ?

If we had two 2h slots, you could backbar a set like lich AND transmutation (by having both 5 pieces on your backbar resto) and run a dsa destro on frontbar for example. This way youd still have 2pc monster, two 5pc sets AND a master staff.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Laenendil wrote: »

I'm not sure to understand what you mean ?

Backbar were mostly used in the case you had a 5 pieces bonus, monster set and no option for a permanent other 5 pieces bonus. Now you can have two five bonus pieces and your 2 pieces monster set. Why would you need a backbar ?

This is what I was thinking, just use a lich front bar as well. The only reason you would want to back bar lich I suppose is to control the proc. But personally I want it to go off all the time, as soon as you can get it, I use lich on my warden healer, I will be using 1 armor and 2 jewelry now of back bar of a lich lighting staff and four armor of spc and a jewelry of spc, with the master resto staff and sentinel of rkugamz. So I will be losing 126 Regen all the time but that is more then worth having the master resto as well.

Kalgert

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

Ah what a shame! Rip lich

I really hope they'll change this!

Why? Sure it will imply that you will have to find alternate pieces to get the bonus a two-handed weapon is providing.

But why should they change it up? I mean, the idea of 1 two-handed weapon counting as an item giving 2 points in to a set sounds like a great thing. Frees up a point of space for players, and it'll allow you to still benefit from a gear set by a little bit, just for using a two-handed weapon.

I see only good things out of this.

Merlin13KAGL

What people fail to realize is that every set combo now will still work at least as good.

If you're that worried about losing the one piece Magicka Regen, you can essentiall back bar piece #5 (and 6) as you currently backbar #5. The only thing you're losing is some flexibility in your build options.

Especially with Lich, the five piece has always been the key. You'll still have 2 Monster, 5 on the front (no matter what your choice in weapon), and 5 on the back.

This changes nothing.

Ectheliontnacil

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Like finding a bag of money and complaining it is too heavy...

Not really. I am not saying that the change was bad for 2h users, I am saying it was bad for backbar sets. What made lich and other sets strong, was the fact that you could backbar them and thus open up one additional slot. Now however backbarring has become redundant and so have backbarable sets, as their 5pc bonuses are usually less powerful than those of regular sets.

zaria

Laenendil wrote: »

I'm not sure to understand what you mean ?

Backbar were mostly used in the case you had a 5 pieces bonus, monster set and no option for a permanent other 5 pieces bonus. Now you can have two five bonus pieces and your 2 pieces monster set. Why would you need a backbar ?

Only reason would be to control an proc however you don't need to control worm or lich, you do want to control mechanical accuracy however.

Part of the reason why proc on 5 set item is that you can have it running on back bar.

Ectheliontnacil

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

What people fail to realize is that every set combo now will still work at least as good.

If you're that worried about losing the one piece Magicka Regen, you can essentiall back bar piece #5 (and 6) as you currently backbar #5. The only thing you're losing is some flexibility in your build options.

Especially with Lich, the five piece has always been the key. You'll still have 2 Monster, 5 on the front (no matter what your choice in weapon), and 5 on the back.

This changes nothing.

It will work as "good" in summerset as it does now.
But a lot of setups will work better in summerset than they do now.
Let's say you use 5pc bloodthorn (front) and 5pc lich (back) and 2 monster pieces. This setup will remain unchanged in the next patch. In the next patch however you will also be able to use 5pc necropotence and 5pc shackle with 2pc monster and both of the latter 5pc bonuses are superior with regard to the damage/sustain output

So yes, lich will still work. But other setups will simply work better.

Asardes

You can still back bar Lich, for example use jewelry + restoration staff on back bar, but lose some recovery on the front bar as a result because you only have 3/5 pieces as 4th piece is Magicka Recovery. With all the multipliers from race, class, light armor, vampirism that may be more like 170 less recovery, which is quite a lot. I run that set on my Sorcerer with Spinner's front bar, and I'm thinking of dropping one of the body pieces and running only the jewels and staff, as said above, accepting the recovery loss, and compensating for that through rotation so I can still keep 5 Spinner's on both bars and run Master staff front bar.

Merlin13KAGL

Apples and oranges.

Your example gains the 5th piece bonus on the front bar, otherwise, you could run that same setup right now.

If your focus is on Lich, again, it changes nothing.

If your focus is on alternate 2 set combos, by definition, of course it changes everything (just as it does now.)

Lich was always a niche set. It will remain a niche set. If other combinations will give you better functionality than Lich, of course you'd change.

That's a side effect of the game, not just the changes in Summerset (crafted jewelry being the exception.)

Ectheliontnacil

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Lich was always a niche set. It will remain a niche set. If other combinations will give you better functionality than Lich, of course you'd change.

Ehhh? Lich was never niche, it's always been BiS for sorcs and sometimes for magblades. When you go to pvp you'll have trouble finding a sorc who doesn't run lich.

And there is no denying the fact that backbar sets are comparatively weaker next patch... I'm not crying about the 2h changes at all, on the contrary, I'm very excited about them. I was just hoping we'd get 2 slots for 2h items, which would open up a wide range of new build options. I had already come up with this awesome duelling spec (for magblade) that won't work with 1 slot 2h.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Like finding a bag of money and complaining it is too heavy...

Not really. I am not saying that the change was bad for 2h users, I am saying it was bad for backbar sets. What made lich and other sets strong, was the fact that you could backbar them and thus open up one additional slot. Now however backbarring has become redundant and so have backbarable sets, as their 5pc bonuses are usually less powerful than those of regular sets.

you can wear exactly what you are now but also wear a 2 piece of a regen set, like seducers. so head shoulder monster, then have gloves and belt seducers and then say front bar julianos with 3 body and the westerly on the lich with back bar staff, boom, no lost regen, you do lose a crit bonus on the back bar but hey, cant have everything.


head- monster
shoulder- monster

hands- seducers
belt -seducers

chest- julianos
legs- julianos
feet-julianos
front staff-julianos x2

necklace- lich
ring- lich
ring - lich
back bar staff- lich x2

boom you are read to go

Peekachu99

It’s amazing that people are actually complaining about this. Especially with Lich. Now you can have infinite sustain, dual staves AND Zaan (pewpew LA ftw), and that’s somehow a bad thing?

ghastley

One two-handed weapon will be the same number of set slots as it is equipment slots, so the same as sword+board or dual-wield. The change means that swapping to a two-handed weapon will not lose you an equipment slot for set purposes any more. You can have 3 body slots of a set plus a two-hander, just like you could have 3 plus dual-wield weapons.

You do not gain or lose any body slots from using a two-handed weapon in this process. It's simply removing the anomaly that a weapon that occupies two equipment slots for one count doesn't get the same credit for another.

Cryptical

Op has completely misunderstood what’s going on.

Example
Right now, set one is feet legs waist chest hands. Set two is mobster shoulders head. Set three is ring ring necklace and weapon. If you dual wield then set three has the full 5 piece bonus but if you have a two-handed weapon you only get the 4 piece set bonus.

After summerset, sets one and two stay the same. Set three will ALWAYS get the full 5 piece set bonus no matter what weapon you put in your hand.

Tanks that use ebon sword and ebon shield will KEEP the red orbs of the back bar an ebon greatsword for stam dps reasons, because that greatsword counts as two pieces because it uses both hands.

Op has not thought this through.

Ectheliontnacil

Cryptical wrote: »

Op has completely misunderstood what’s going on.

Example
Right now, set one is feet legs waist chest hands. Set two is mobster shoulders head. Set three is ring ring necklace and weapon. If you dual wield then set three has the full 5 piece bonus but if you have a two-handed weapon you only get the 4 piece set bonus.

After summerset, sets one and two stay the same. Set three will ALWAYS get the full 5 piece set bonus no matter what weapon you put in your hand.

Tanks that use ebon sword and ebon shield will KEEP the red orbs of the back bar an ebon greatsword for stam dps reasons, because that greatsword counts as two pieces because it uses both hands.

Op has not thought this through.

Lol.

What utter rubbish! There's wayyyy more combinations for sets than the ONE you just explained. For instance you don't need to run 2pc monster, you can run 3 jewelry pieces, you can have sets only active on 1 bar etc.

Telling me I haven't thought this through!

Dudis

Only problem as far as i see it is that if you want to run 5+5+2+2, you wont get the 4p bonus of your backbar set on your frontbar. You will however be able to equip a master weapon for example, or any 2 piece bonus you prefer, essentially for free.

2p - Monster set
5p - Permanent 5 piece set on body/jewelry
3p + 2p backbar (lich, riposte, whatever set you currently backbar)
2p - Frontbar Master/Agility/Willpower etc...

Most of the currently good backbar sets wouldn't exactly be wasted in a 5+5+2 setup, but with that said, I agree that I would probably take Amberplasm over Lich for example, in a setup like that.

SugaComa

Laenendil wrote: »

I'm not sure to understand what you mean ?

Backbar were mostly used in the case you had a 5 pieces bonus, monster set and no option for a permanent other 5 pieces bonus. Now you can have two five bonus pieces and your 2 pieces monster set. Why would you need a backbar ?

Defence, offence for PvP

Dots and direct damage for pve.

And have both bars allow them to get benefits from 5 piece sets meaning more up time on this bonuses

Cryptical

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

Cryptical wrote: »

Op has completely misunderstood what’s going on.

Example
Right now, set one is feet legs waist chest hands. Set two is mobster shoulders head. Set three is ring ring necklace and weapon. If you dual wield then set three has the full 5 piece bonus but if you have a two-handed weapon you only get the 4 piece set bonus.

After summerset, sets one and two stay the same. Set three will ALWAYS get the full 5 piece set bonus no matter what weapon you put in your hand.

Tanks that use ebon sword and ebon shield will KEEP the red orbs of the back bar an ebon greatsword for stam dps reasons, because that greatsword counts as two pieces because it uses both hands.

Op has not thought this through.

Lol.

What utter rubbish! There's wayyyy more combinations for sets than the ONE you just explained. For instance you don't need to run 2pc monster, you can run 3 jewelry pieces, you can have sets only active on 1 bar etc.

Telling me I haven't thought this through!

I said it was an example. OF COURSE there are other variations.

What you haven’t thought through is that if you have a staff and 3 other armor pieces then you get the full 5 piece set bonus while only using 4 items.

Ring plus ring plus necklace plus staff is FOUR items... but you get the full FIVE piece bonus from lich.

Derp.

JimmyJuJu

Peekachu99 wrote: »

It’s amazing that people are actually complaining about this. Especially with Lich. Now you can have infinite sustain, dual staves AND Zaan (pewpew LA ftw), and that’s somehow a bad thing?

It will be even more "pewpew" ftw with the buff to LA's + empower.

Structured Etropy + pewpew + pewpew + Zaan = AP

[Edit to remove bait]