Would this game have been easier to make if it were in an "alternate TES timeline"?

Knowledge

What I am suggesting is a complete deviation from an original timeline as well as the lore but keeping the game in the same universe. This would have been more appeasing to fans of the series along with people that can't stand breaks in the lore. Maybe it was a dream? Maybe someone went back in time and then changes the events? It didn't have to be canon. As it stands it's incredibly difficult to keep the lore perfect and neat while offering general MMORPG features. Right now the game works off of the assumption that each of our characters are a "chosen one" type of story which didn't have to be so constrained in my suggestion.

jrgray93

I imagine the people very into ES lore feel about this game the way I do about the new Star Trek series. Fortunately, I'm here for the gameplay. The familiarity of characters and races is just a bonus.

VaranisArano

Alternate universe where the lore's made up and the points dont matter?

Sure thing. I'm there. Where do I pre-order?

Just don't do that to a game thats part of the Elder Scrolls universe within the current game lore, please. I like the TES lore.

Kendaric

To be blunt, if ZOS did something like that many (if not most) TES fans would probably leave the game. And ESO would be just another generic fantasy MMORPG.

jedtb16_ESO

leaving all other factors aside...

the land and the lore are the reasons i play.

VaranisArano

jrgray93 wrote: »

I imagine the people very into ES lore feel about this game the way I do about the new Star Trek series. Fortunately, I'm here for the gameplay. The familiarity of characters and races is just a bonus.

I liken it to Star Wars. There are people like me, who watch the movies and know the plots and major characters. There are people like my SO who knows the movies and the old extended universe.


And then there are people like one of my close friends who's with the 501st doing charity events while dressed as in clone trooper armor and can tell you practically anything you want to know about the Star Wars universe old and new...

Chickenstein

I still don't understand why. Would it really be more enjoyable for "fans of the series"? Wouldn't nitpickers who see minor lore mismatches not even be angrier?

I think it's fine the way it is. Lore has evolved and changed with every TES game; this is definitely not the first, and it's part of the official canon now. I quite like that and I think that TES lore as it is now leaves enough space for storytellers to craft new quests.

Chaos2088

I can very clearly remember on multiple occasions from the lore master himself and a few other Zos staff that they picked this era of time as it would be the easiest for an MMO. Because there is not much written/lore made up for it before, it gave the game developers and writers much to play with

MLGProPlayer

What would be the point? You might as well create an original fantasy uiniverse then. The whole poiint of this being a TES MMO is to take place in the TES universe AND timeline.

jedtb16_ESO

coming back to this... 'easier to make'?

i'm not sure what that means or even the point of it.

what, this house would have been easier to make if we didn't have to put a roof on it?

Colecovision

I think that’s what we have. Walking all the way around the Morrowind doughnut in 20 minutes or whatever it was, was the big slap in the face that made me come to grips with it. The shrine of Azura was particularly difficult to stomach. Then I pouted like a child for a bit, woke up and decided to give the game a chance for what it is. It’s a freaking great game and it’s got an elder scrolls skin. They never said it was TES VI. Let’s evaluate with that knowledge and have a good time. The option is available to all who choose to enjoy it.

Jim_Pipp

The existing lore explanation for an alternative Elder Scrolls timeline is called a Kalpa. (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Kalpa)

This a ridiculously interesting part of the lore, and if ESO were to embrace the explanation that ESO is set in a different Kalpa, and really let us explore the metaphysical and existential implications, then I would actually be fine with it. It give ZOS a license to re-imagine some concepts and give fans of the lore a chance to explore something only hinted at in Skyrim and some in-game books.

With that said, the only reason I play this MMO is because it is an Elder Scrolls Game, and if they ever abandon the lore I will abandon the game.

Chickenstein

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

what, this house would have been easier to make if we didn't have to put a roof on it?

More like, "this house would have been easier to make if those damn middle age people didn't tell me that it needed a roof!"

Danikat

It would give the developers and/or people who want to shut down lore based complaints an easy excuse for whatever happens, but I don't think there would be any actual benefit for ZOS or any players.

• I think the people who are genuinely so unhappy with what ESO has done that they refuse to play it would still refuse, they'd just be able to tell themselves/anyone who cares to ask that it's not a real TES game anyway so it doesn't even count and they're not missing out on part of the series.
• And the people who don't care if it fits the lore...don't care, so they won't have an opinion.
• Several of the people in the middle of that spectrum already cry Dragon Break every time something they don't like happens (either about the game as a whole or that one specific event), so they're basically already doing this themselves.

Meanwhile the risk is that some people at ZOS could see it as free reign to do whatever they want with no regard for the lore at all, and then they run the risk of losing those players who are here because they're fans of the TES series and are willing to accept some deviations/new lore but still want to play a TES game. If they decided that in 'alternate Tamriel' there's actually just 1 god who is definitely real and everyone believes in him, but he only interacts with the world via sending prophets, and someone's invented tanks and planes (it's ok, they're 'steam punk' so it totally fits a high fantasy setting because those are basically the same thing right?) and...I don't know what else, but basically if it reached the point where it's no longer recognisable to me as a TES game then I've lost any interest in playing it.

starkerealm

jrgray93 wrote: »

I imagine the people very into ES lore feel about this game the way I do about the new Star Trek series. Fortunately, I'm here for the gameplay. The familiarity of characters and races is just a bonus.

I have some bad news, @jrgray93, Enterprise is no longer, "the new Star Trek series." :P

@Knowledge, no. It is what it is, and it is canon. TES's metaphysics are very bonkers, so saying, "it's an alternate universe," wouldn't make more sense, given it kinda already is a bunch of alternate universes colliding together in ESO. Which is, incidentally, also true of the single player games, just in those cases you can't see it happening.

Apocryphfa

@Knowledge

I am very sorry to tell you this, but i believe you have a very profound misunderstanding of what is, and is not Canon. Everything in ESO is in-fact Canon.

Zenimax Online media works very closely with Bethesda game studios, on both ESO, and Elder scrolls legends as far as lore is concerned. Everything you see in these games is Canon, you are simply just misinformed, or uneducated as far what is, and is not Canon in TES.

Most explanations to what you think, and do not think is Canon comes from a narrative device called "The unreliable narrator"
This is when a Character in the game itself is incorrect, and intentionally so. I can give you two very strong examples to you as well from the 2 most recent Major titles.

Skyrim has many, however the most specific example is the Guards in skyrim who will tell you Dragons where all wipped out in the Dragon War, and no one has seen them sense...This is false there have been several dragons in past TES games, most notably nafaalilargus, Tiber septems personal dragon solder you meet and talk to in Redguard, and everyone knew about him.
Also Dragonne Papré, in Battle spire.
BGS did not forget about these Dragons, they are Canon in the Lore, but what would country farm folk know about Dragons?

TESIV itself, in TES III you are told that all of Cyrodiil, the capital of Tamriel was vividly describes as Dense endless jungle, however if you have ever played TES IV..it is clearly not a jungle..This is not because of any problems in the Lore...it is because the NPC that tells you this is simply wrong

This is a very common theme in TES, and why people do not know what to do with all of the conflicting information. However the solution in very simple. When you are hearing about past events that happened in TES games from NPCs in Oblivion, or in skyrim...they are 90% of the time incorrect, because THEY WERE NOT THERE, they only think thats what happened.

This is like me telling you a story about an event in ancient Greece, and me telling you exactly what happened...but how could i? i was never there in ancient Greece..This is intentionally done in all of the elder scrolls games.

When it comes down to it, like i said Zenimax online works very closely with Bethesda game studios with lore, a game is an art-form, they are creating art...you do not get to tell a creator their art is wrong. These games are Canon, even michael kirkbride agrees. Don't fault people for your lack of education on the subject.

Apocryphfa

Jim_Pipp wrote: »

The existing lore explanation for an alternative Elder Scrolls timeline is called a Kalpa. (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Kalpa)

This a ridiculously interesting part of the lore, and if ESO were to embrace the explanation that ESO is set in a different Kalpa, and really let us explore the metaphysical and existential implications, then I would actually be fine with it. It give ZOS a license to re-imagine some concepts and give fans of the lore a chance to explore something only hinted at in Skyrim and some in-game books.

With that said, the only reason I play this MMO is because it is an Elder Scrolls Game, and if they ever abandon the lore I will abandon the game.

You are incorrect, Alduin has been stopped in his previous 2 attempts to reset the Cycle of Kalpa. Once in his previous attempt before ESO, and a second in TESV. We know this because you can find in game lore references to Alduin being stopped withing ESO. So this is incredibly misinformed, you are wrong, they take place in the same timeline.

KochDerDamonen

Saying "It's not canon" might satisfy the little camp of people who will never be satisfied, but opening up the floodgates to things that are not even remotely canon-like will displease many more people who are into the general feel and flow of Elder Scrolls without being too worried about the exact details.

Little tweaks and woopsies in lore details are a given, it keeps the world flexible enough and makes some moments fun with a realistic switcharoo. Those moments where the villain and hero were swapped in the tales, or the magic macguffin was actually the evil spirit's power source not weakness, or what have you can make things MORE interesting when done sparsely and sensibly. Completely ignoring what's been laid out for the sake of "xddd me wan fite dwagons" and "WoW has mummercycles, y not??" is... not.

Kiralyn2000

Knowledge wrote: »

Right now the game works off of the assumption that each of our characters are a "chosen one" type of story which didn't have to be so constrained in my suggestion.

Eh, being in an alternate timeline wouldn't really change that aspect of it - just about every MMO I've played, the player's character - in story - is a Super Special Hero (ignore all those other Super Special Heros standing next to you)

That's just part of MMO-ness. Just like you need to suspend disbelief about Slaying The Big Evil Dragon That'll Destroy The World..... every week, along with every other group of heroes you see walk by. (apparently, even though you chopped it's head off and brought it back to be displayed in the castle square, it still exists to be killed/chopped/displayed again. And again. And again....)


This is completely separate from making sure the overall story (of which you are The Hero™) fits into canon lore.

Knowledge

Jim_Pipp wrote: »

The existing lore explanation for an alternative Elder Scrolls timeline is called a Kalpa. (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Kalpa)

This a ridiculously interesting part of the lore, and if ESO were to embrace the explanation that ESO is set in a different Kalpa, and really let us explore the metaphysical and existential implications, then I would actually be fine with it. It give ZOS a license to re-imagine some concepts and give fans of the lore a chance to explore something only hinted at in Skyrim and some in-game books.

With that said, the only reason I play this MMO is because it is an Elder Scrolls Game, and if they ever abandon the lore I will abandon the game.

Yeah, that seems like a good idea.

Apocryphfa

Knowledge wrote: »

Jim_Pipp wrote: »

The existing lore explanation for an alternative Elder Scrolls timeline is called a Kalpa. (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Kalpa)

This a ridiculously interesting part of the lore, and if ESO were to embrace the explanation that ESO is set in a different Kalpa, and really let us explore the metaphysical and existential implications, then I would actually be fine with it. It give ZOS a license to re-imagine some concepts and give fans of the lore a chance to explore something only hinted at in Skyrim and some in-game books.

With that said, the only reason I play this MMO is because it is an Elder Scrolls Game, and if they ever abandon the lore I will abandon the game.

Yeah, that seems like a good idea.

Except this is incorrect, and i just explained why.

Alduin has been stopped in his previous 2 attempts to reset the Cycle of Kalpa. Once in his previous attempt before ESO, and a second in TESV. We know this because you can find in game lore references to Alduin being stopped withing ESO. So this is incredibly misinformed, you are wrong, they take place in the same timeline.

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO

I.

HATE.

Alternate.

Timelines.

Dracane

Eso IS lore, Eso IS canon, deal with it already.
It has been confirmed a 100 times and you should stop complaining, it's getting annoying.

Knowledge

Apocryphfa wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

Jim_Pipp wrote: »

The existing lore explanation for an alternative Elder Scrolls timeline is called a Kalpa. (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Kalpa)

This a ridiculously interesting part of the lore, and if ESO were to embrace the explanation that ESO is set in a different Kalpa, and really let us explore the metaphysical and existential implications, then I would actually be fine with it. It give ZOS a license to re-imagine some concepts and give fans of the lore a chance to explore something only hinted at in Skyrim and some in-game books.

With that said, the only reason I play this MMO is because it is an Elder Scrolls Game, and if they ever abandon the lore I will abandon the game.

Yeah, that seems like a good idea.

Except this is incorrect, and i just explained why.

Alduin has been stopped in his previous 2 attempts to reset the Cycle of Kalpa. Once in his previous attempt before ESO, and a second in TESV. We know this because you can find in game lore references to Alduin being stopped withing ESO. So this is incredibly misinformed, you are wrong, they take place in the same timeline.

Are you sure? Do you have any links?

Knowledge

Dracane wrote: »

Eso IS lore, Eso IS canon, deal with it already.
It has been confirmed a 100 times and you should stop complaining, it's getting annoying.

I didn't say it wasn't canon.

Dracane

Knowledge wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Eso IS lore, Eso IS canon, deal with it already.
It has been confirmed a 100 times and you should stop complaining, it's getting annoying.

I didn't say it wasn't canon.

Then why make such accusations in your opening post ?
There have been contradictions in all TES games. Yet they are still canon, are they not ? ESO IS governed by Bethesda, ZoS consults them about everything. There is nothing inside ESO, that Bethesda wouldn't have done.

This discussion is just so wrong. ESO has amazing lore and it's as official as it could be.

Knowledge

Dracane wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Eso IS lore, Eso IS canon, deal with it already.
It has been confirmed a 100 times and you should stop complaining, it's getting annoying.

I didn't say it wasn't canon.

Then why make such accusations in your opening post ?
There have been contradictions in all TES games. Yet they are still canon, are they not ? ESO IS governed by Bethesda, ZoS consults them about everything. There is nothing inside ESO, that Bethesda wouldn't have done.

This discussion is just so wrong. ESO has amazing lore and it's as official as it could be.

I was asking if the game would have been easier to make if it were in an alternate timeline I didn't say it "was in an alternate timeline".

Apocryphfa

Dracane wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Eso IS lore, Eso IS canon, deal with it already.
It has been confirmed a 100 times and you should stop complaining, it's getting annoying.

I didn't say it wasn't canon.

Then why make such accusations in your opening post ?
There have been contradictions in all TES games. Yet they are still canon, are they not ? ESO IS governed by Bethesda, ZoS consults them about everything. There is nothing inside ESO, that Bethesda wouldn't have done.

This discussion is just so wrong. ESO has amazing lore and it's as official as it could be.

They made this Thread because they dont like the reality of TES lore, it doesn't fit in their perfect little fantasy of what they want...so they write on Forums complain its "Not Lore friendly" when in reality it all is...people would know this if they had played all 10 of the elder scrolls games...Most the time people shouting about things not being lore friendly have only Played Skyrim, oblivion, or morrowind...the only reason they do this to ESO in specific is because of a lack o f respect for Zenimax...when they obviously dont realize the same people who wrote the lore in those game also write it for ESO.


But basically, there point here is they do something incredibly lore breaking...that would tear apart the entire 20 years of well written lore and have it all written to their fantasy...similar to a child some would say...just pouting when they dont get what they want.

srfrogg23

Knowledge wrote: »

What I am suggesting is a complete deviation from an original timeline as well as the lore but keeping the game in the same universe. This would have been more appeasing to fans of the series along with people that can't stand breaks in the lore. Maybe it was a dream? Maybe someone went back in time and then changes the events? It didn't have to be canon. As it stands it's incredibly difficult to keep the lore perfect and neat while offering general MMORPG features. Right now the game works off of the assumption that each of our characters are a "chosen one" type of story which didn't have to be so constrained in my suggestion.

That would have been worse. ESO is NOT Skyrim 2 with multiplayer like a lot of people wanted, but at least the lore-nuts had something to hang on to.

If Zos messed with that, created some alternate time-line, then people would have freaked out even harder. Nah, it would have been a bad idea that would have led to a whole lot of “OMG, that’s not how it happened in the LORE! Zos couldn’t even get that right! Blah, blah, blah! Blah! Blah blah blah blah!!!!”

Jim_Pipp

Apocryphfa wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

Jim_Pipp wrote: »

The existing lore explanation for an alternative Elder Scrolls timeline is called a Kalpa. (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Kalpa)

This a ridiculously interesting part of the lore, and if ESO were to embrace the explanation that ESO is set in a different Kalpa, and really let us explore the metaphysical and existential implications, then I would actually be fine with it. It give ZOS a license to re-imagine some concepts and give fans of the lore a chance to explore something only hinted at in Skyrim and some in-game books.

With that said, the only reason I play this MMO is because it is an Elder Scrolls Game, and if they ever abandon the lore I will abandon the game.

Yeah, that seems like a good idea.

Except this is incorrect, and i just explained why.

Alduin has been stopped in his previous 2 attempts to reset the Cycle of Kalpa. Once in his previous attempt before ESO, and a second in TESV. We know this because you can find in game lore references to Alduin being stopped withing ESO. So this is incredibly misinformed, you are wrong, they take place in the same timeline.

Time for a chill pill. You seem to know your lore but I think you have misunderstood the thread and my comment about how this game could hypothetically be set in a different Kalpa as a way to give developers more freedom and us an opportunity to explore a part of the elder scrolls cosmology which cannot be explored in the main game series. No-one is saying that ESO is not in the main timeline, we are just discussing what it would be like if ESO were in an alternate timeline. Finally, I'm not sure it matters how many times Alduin is stopped, because it is implied that it eternally repeats.

wenchmore420b14_ESO

After reading all the posts and giving thought to OP's idea,
what pop's into my mind right off is "Sounds Like Blizzard".
Changing lore, alternate universes?
Isn't that what Blizzard did when they went from Warcraft to World of Warcraft??

Sorry OP. Not a great idea.
Nor is using Kalpa in anyway a good idea...