Can we stop with the "Sommerst is P2W"

efduncanub17_ESO

P2W is paying money for items or abilities that give you an advantage over none playing players...MMO's have expansions and they add new features and abilities...it is expected that most people who play an MMO either stop playing or buy the new expansions...WoW for instance has expac that's added races, classes, different crafting, new gear...would you call this play to win if you play PVP and new expac comes out but you wont buy it and therefore have no access to the new gear and new level cap? ESO is special in the idea they have a solid level cap on the gear but to say they cant do what every other MMO does is silly just because you don't want to pay....Gaming is a privilege not a right...

Eldartar

efduncanub17_ESO wrote: »

P2W is paying money for items or abilities that give you an advantage over none playing players...MMO's have expansions and they add new features and abilities...it is expected that most people who play an MMO either stop playing or buy the new expansions...WoW for instance has expac that's added races, classes, different crafting, new gear...would you call this play to win if you play PVP and new expac comes out but you wont buy it and therefore have no access to the new gear and new level cap? ESO is special in the idea they have a solid level cap on the gear but to say they cant do what every other MMO does is silly just because you don't want to pay....Gaming is a privilege not a right...

99% agree but I'd rather say Gaming is a choice, you either do or you don't... simple really.

Turelus

Sadly P2W has become the prop for "I don't want to spend money but want that thing everyone else is buying" in games these days.

Some people don't know what real P2W looks like any more it seems.

efduncanub17_ESO

Turelus wrote: »

Sadly P2W has become the prop for "I don't want to spend money but want that thing everyone else is buying" in games these days.

Some people don't know what real P2W looks like any more it seems.

You would think they would in an era of smart phone games that are almost all P2W

srfrogg23

I think the majority of people already agree that it is not pay to win.

Soresina

OMG somebody should have told me this game was P2W, If I had known that researching faster would increase my dps I wouldn't have wasted all those points on at least looking good as I died,.

jedtb16_ESO

if it's not summerset it will be whatever follows.

whatever happens a section the 'community' will whine and wail about it.

VaxtinTheWolf

I'm not sure what sommerst is, but at least I finally know what they were aiming to do with all this "Chapter" business.

Basically early access to "beta test" the content on live. And a year later, hopefully anyone else gets easy access to it with smooth game play, less bugs and maybe a change here or there..

Wayshuba

P2W would be something like increased stat CP300 gear only being available for Crowns in the Crown Store. Or killer set armor only being in the store.

Jewelry crafting is NOT P2W. They already clarified that those that don't won the expansion will still be able to have those that do craft something for them. In addition, just because you can't have crafted jewelry does not mean you still can't have sets in those slots. It just means you have to go for drops.

Summerset, in no way, shape or form, is P2W.

SainguinKrist

You can never stop the dumb. It's part of every MMO and comes out with every major patch ever. You play MMOs long enough you just accept it.

You even start to like the salt after a while.

runesword007

anyone that thinks ESO is p2w must be new to gaming, and i hate p2w games. expansions is a way to bring new stuff to the game and for the company to keep the lights on and to pay people. p2w games are games like others said are buying gear that is ether and or better then others ways to get it or same as the top gear you can get in raids and such. there was an mmo i played a few years ago that i loved, they went f2p but it was truthfully went p2w because you could buy all the raid gear and better items. i left that game in a hurry when they made that change. as long as eso keeps it only cosmetic items i am more then happy to keep spending money. now if they only hurry up and get the server up so i can buy that ghost mount ;-)

Tabbycat

Back in my day, Imperials were pay 2 win.

Yeah no, expansions or chapters or dlc is just more content. You either fork over the cash or you wait until it becomes part of the base game, included in ESO+ or bought for crowns.

Bevik

Ignore those P2W parrots. I left a F2P game because it became a grind fest like all the Korean MMOs to be honest, and also became a P2W, people bought stuff, chars on the internet, very first day had more things than I could achieve in years and belive me I was a hardcore player. But there were thing you can't just get by grinding like special items where hundreds of people are participating for a Raid Boss and maybe 1 can get a special jewellery. And they put all the special items inside a loot box(Tarot cards). Damn be happy you don't have items in the Crown Crates. Once you experience a true P2W game can't say any bad word about the Crown Store.

Slick_007

whats 'sommerst' ?

damdamjel

Sadly p2w is a term for people who just cant afford(anymore) and stop people from progressing further than they have.
"Crab mentality" hence the constant bashing of p2w.

ghwaite

It is very simple, Summerset is an expansion on the original game, if you want the benefits of having all of the game content BUY THE CHAPTER!

reiverx

Summerset is p2craft.

Soresina

On a more serious note, I think people need to remember that the developers don't work for free and neither are the overheads needed to keep the game running free. The only cost for this game is the initial purchase of the main game and the cost of the DLC's if you choose not to subscribe. It appears that you don't even have to purchase the chapters though if you are willing to wait long enough and subscribe. People spend more on fast food for a single meal than they pay for entire month of entertainment and they act like ZOS is committing a crime when they ask them to pay a little bit of money to purchase an additional chapter once a year or a DLC every few months. There is also the option of subscribing if you don't want to pay out for a DLC for the cost of takeout lunch or two.
I think people need to remember that playing this game is not a right but a privilege. The developers work constantly to improve the game and then add new content and it appears some people think that just because they paid a one off fee to buy the game all this should be made freely available to them forever. I wonder how these same people would feel if they worked hard on something and then had to listen to people whine because they don't want to pay for it. Sure there are problems with the game at times but in my thirty years of gaming I have never yet found a game that doesn't have them and don't think I ever will. In my opinion playing this game is a privilege that has given me a lot of enjoyment and many good times with really great people so if ZOS wants me to spend $60 AUD to extend the content I am more than happy to do so.

Slurg

But it’s a forum tradition to claim every new thing is P2W.

hmr13.76preeb18_ESO

I play with the release of the game,I bought the Imperial edition on pre-order, I paid the subscription when it was in the game. I buy membership right now. I got nothing from the developers for what I always paid. Unique riding tiger..,not a super reward for paying money. Many players in the game always pay money. QUESTION!! Why should we pay for the existence of FREE players?? So fans of " free "shut up and rejoice that someone pays for your" free " game.

goatlyonesub17_ESO

efduncanub17_ESO wrote: »

P2W is paying money for items or abilities that give you an advantage over none playing players...MMO's have expansions and they add new features and abilities...it is expected that most people who play an MMO either stop playing or buy the new expansions...WoW for instance has expac that's added races, classes, different crafting, new gear...would you call this play to win if you play PVP and new expac comes out but you wont buy it and therefore have no access to the new gear and new level cap? ESO is special in the idea they have a solid level cap on the gear but to say they cant do what every other MMO does is silly just because you don't want to pay....Gaming is a privilege not a right...

When I became an ESO Plus member, I had no idea that some of the content that you can download would be something other than downloadable content.

Vvardenfell is about the same size as Wrothgar. Wrothgar is downloadable content. Vvardenfell is a "chapter." What's the difference, apart from whatchacallit? Wrothgar was free to ESO Plus members. Vvardenfell wasn't. It looks as if whether an ESO Member has to pay, or not, depends entirely on whatchacallit: DLC or Chapter.

Not that I'm complaining, of course. I bought Morrowind. I pre-bought Summerset the Collectors Edition the moment it went on sale. But when I joined ESO Plus, I believed that I'd never have to pay for any additional game content that was available via downloading, having naively supposed that this was identical with DLC.

Whether or not ESO has become "pay to win" (or pay for almost unbeatable advantages over non-paying ESO Plus players) depends on two things: (1) the quality of the stuff that can be found only in paid-for parts of the game and (2) whether or not that stuff can be obtained by purchase by non-paying ESO Plus players. The new stuff can be armor pieces or weapons that stack into your personal set in such a way that you get more Weapon Damage or Max Stamina than you could have gotten from mix-and-matching only from the sets available in the free zones.

If superior-performance equipped items, available only in paid Chapters, are bind-on-pickup (i.e., you can't sell them in guild stores), then ESO has entered "pay to win" territory. And that's practically true, also, if the rate at which you get an item that, after you picked it up, still isn't bound is very rare, like 1% chance. There never will be enough of that item to meet the in-game market demand for it.

So far, though, ESO hasn't waded into those waters as deeply as some MMOs have. I remember how it was in the medieval war-strategy game "Kingdoms of Camelot." If you paid big money for the special advantages cards, your army could beat the army of anybody else who did not pay big money for special advantages cards. Suckers were spending their grocery money. I quit playing that game.

Bobby_V_Rockit

They said maelstrom weapons were pay to win, its now free in base game, then they said morrowind was, also now free in base game. I think we are realy just paying for early access. And to that I say “take my monies!” I have preordered Summerset

silvermistktralasub17_ESO

um, for information, morrowwind introduced a new class, which, almost by itself, is something requiring extra payment. There were in-game goodies for people who preordered it or who ordered the collector's edition. There was a new type of activity that goes across multiple zones (battlegrounds), as well as several extensive quest-chains which is more than Orsinium actually had. So, yes, it had things worth being paid extra on its own. Summerset has, in addition to maps, a new 'guild' style skill line, jewelry crafting, and the quests involved with that. The extras, both the psiijic skill line and the jewelry crafting, are above and beyond what is expected in a dlc. They are likely putting in more that they haven't shown us yet too, so I'll likely be more than satisfied with the small amount of money I paid for a collector's edition digital upgrades.

goatlyonesub17_ESO

efduncanub17_ESO wrote: »

P2W is paying money for items or abilities that give you an advantage over none playing players...MMO's have expansions and they add new features and abilities...it is expected that most people who play an MMO either stop playing or buy the new expansions...WoW for instance has expac that's added races, classes, different crafting, new gear...would you call this play to win if you play PVP and new expac comes out but you wont buy it and therefore have no access to the new gear and new level cap? ESO is special in the idea they have a solid level cap on the gear but to say they cant do what every other MMO does is silly just because you don't want to pay....Gaming is a privilege not a right...

When I became an ESO Plus member, I had no idea that some of the content that you can download would be something other than downloadable content.

Vvardenfell is about the same size as Wrothgar. Wrothgar is downloadable content. Vvardenfell is a "chapter." What's the difference, apart from whatchacallit? Wrothgar was free to ESO Plus members. Vvardenfell wasn't. It looks as if whether an ESO Member has to pay, or not, depends entirely on whatchacallit: DLC or Chapter.

Not that I'm complaining, of course. I bought Morrowind. I pre-bought Summerset the Collectors Edition the moment it went on sale. But when I joined ESO Plus, I believed that I'd never have to pay for any additional game content that was available via downloading, having naively supposed that this was identical with DLC.

Whether or not ESO has become "pay to win" (or pay for almost unbeatable advantages over non-paying ESO Plus players) depends on two things: (1) the quality of the stuff that can be found only in paid-for parts of the game and (2) whether or not that stuff can be obtained by purchase by non-paying ESO Plus players. The new stuff can be armor pieces or weapons that stack into your personal set in such a way that you get more Weapon Damage or Max Stamina than you could have gotten from mix-and-matching only from the sets available in the free zones.

If superior-performance equipped items, available only in paid Chapters, are bind-on-pickup (i.e., you can't sell them in guild stores), then ESO has entered "pay to win" territory. And that's practically true, also, if the rate at which you get an item that, after you picked it up, still isn't bound is very rare, like 1% chance. There never will be enough of that item to meet the in-game market demand for it.

EDIT: If it turns out that you have to pay only to get into a Chapter early, but if you wait six months you can get it for free, then that issue is much less important.

So far, though, ESO hasn't waded into those waters as deeply as some MMOs have. I remember how it was in the medieval war-strategy game "Kingdoms of Camelot." If you paid big money for the special advantages cards, your army could beat the army of anybody else who did not pay big money for special advantages cards. Suckers were spending their grocery money. I quit playing that game.

efduncanub17_ESO

goatlyonesub17_ESO wrote: »

efduncanub17_ESO wrote: »

P2W is paying money for items or abilities that give you an advantage over none playing players...MMO's have expansions and they add new features and abilities...it is expected that most people who play an MMO either stop playing or buy the new expansions...WoW for instance has expac that's added races, classes, different crafting, new gear...would you call this play to win if you play PVP and new expac comes out but you wont buy it and therefore have no access to the new gear and new level cap? ESO is special in the idea they have a solid level cap on the gear but to say they cant do what every other MMO does is silly just because you don't want to pay....Gaming is a privilege not a right...

When I became an ESO Plus member, I had no idea that some of the content that you can download would be something other than downloadable content.

Vvardenfell is about the same size as Wrothgar. Wrothgar is downloadable content. Vvardenfell is a "chapter." What's the difference, apart from whatchacallit? Wrothgar was free to ESO Plus members. Vvardenfell wasn't. It looks as if whether an ESO Member has to pay, or not, depends entirely on whatchacallit: DLC or Chapter.

Not that I'm complaining, of course. I bought Morrowind. I pre-bought Summerset the Collectors Edition the moment it went on sale. But when I joined ESO Plus, I believed that I'd never have to pay for any additional game content that was available via downloading, having naively supposed that this was identical with DLC.

Whether or not ESO has become "pay to win" (or pay for almost unbeatable advantages over non-paying ESO Plus players) depends on two things: (1) the quality of the stuff that can be found only in paid-for parts of the game and (2) whether or not that stuff can be obtained by purchase by non-paying ESO Plus players. The new stuff can be armor pieces or weapons that stack into your personal set in such a way that you get more Weapon Damage or Max Stamina than you could have gotten from mix-and-matching only from the sets available in the free zones.

If superior-performance equipped items, available only in paid Chapters, are bind-on-pickup (i.e., you can't sell them in guild stores), then ESO has entered "pay to win" territory. And that's practically true, also, if the rate at which you get an item that, after you picked it up, still isn't bound is very rare, like 1% chance. There never will be enough of that item to meet the in-game market demand for it.

So far, though, ESO hasn't waded into those waters as deeply as some MMOs have. I remember how it was in the medieval war-strategy game "Kingdoms of Camelot." If you paid big money for the special advantages cards, your army could beat the army of anybody else who did not pay big money for special advantages cards. Suckers were spending their grocery money. I quit playing that game.

If ESO raised the level cap on gear like every other mmo on earth does when they release an epac this would be a non issue...its an mmo not fortnite...I think with Morrowind they stated they were going in a different direction...with the chapters and DLC...Morrowind did bring a new class...which would be the extra that Wrothgar lacked...P2W is like you said in Kingdoms of Camelot" PvP is not the only part of this game...its is a PVE game first as most MMOs are...PVP is usually secondary to developers

Eyesinthedrk

It’s not P2W if Delia hasn’t thrown a backyard funeral

Sergykid

efduncanub17_ESO wrote: »

P2W is paying money for items or abilities that give you an advantage over none playing players

and exactly this happens. Just as examples VMA or HoF give few of the strongest weapons and sets. Yes, you have to earn them, but to be able to earn them you have to pay first.

as for abilities, the new psijic line might have some powerful enough abilities to become a standard in players' bars just as vigor is in pvp for stam builds.

pshift

The only people saying it's P2W are poor people.

efduncanub17_ESO

Sergykid wrote: »

efduncanub17_ESO wrote: »

P2W is paying money for items or abilities that give you an advantage over none playing players

and exactly this happens. Just as examples VMA or HoF give few of the strongest weapons and sets. Yes, you have to earn them, but to be able to earn them you have to pay first.

as for abilities, the new psijic line might have some powerful enough abilities to become a standard in players' bars just as vigor is in pvp for stam builds.

I would ask if you have played any other MMO before this is standard MMO practice

srfrogg23

The missing ingredient of any P2W argument is always what is being “won”.

Bigevilpeter

In Wow with every new expansion almost everything you've ever done before becomes useless and you need to buy the expansion to progress further, not to mention you have to pay sub every month to even play. Here at least they just give a few extra things that reward those who bought the expansion.

Also the expansion here is much cheaper, so looking at it this game is much less p2w than WoW