Are the moons really moons?

DragonKiller12348

I have been playing The Elder Scrolls: 3, 4, and 5. While I have been playing, I have been studying, and watching the moons for at least a month in each game. What I have seen is that Secunda orbits Masser. But I have proof that Masser is its own planet, which is very big and very far from Nirn.
Starting off Secunda orbits Masser which, if this was in our universe, would make Masser a planet and not a moon. Next just knowing the theory that the moons could be Lorkhaan himself, would explain some things such as why they look the size of moons. This is proven where if Masser was bigger than Nirn, as Lorkhaan is a god you know, but far away from it, Masser would look like a moon and so would Secunda This would be the same if Mars was closer to Earth, in which it would look the same size as the moon. Lastly, why does it seem like the moons still orbit Nirn? This can only be proven where if Nirn was stuck in the center of the universal magical field present in The Elder Scrolls. This makes everything look like it orbits Nirn, although they orbit the field Nirn is stuck in. The only difference is that science works differently in this universe.
I would like some ideas on why this is true or why it is not. I hope you enjoy my theory.

Arobain

pretty neat theory

DragonKiller12348

All of this really came to me at once surprisingly. I did know that the moons could be Lorkhaan. But when I saw that one moon orbited the other, I realized that Masser is a very big, far away planet. It really makes sense when you know that Lorkhaan is a god, which would probably prove he is BIG! And so much more if you think Nirn is at the very center of everything. The order is 3 bubbles, Mundus inside of Oblivion, and Oblivion inside of Aetherius with Nirn probably in the center.

Lantian_Doco

Hmh... if Masser is Lorkhan... what the heck is Secunda?

DragonKiller12348

Lantian_Doco wrote: »

Hmh... if Masser is Lorkhan... what the heck is Secunda?

I believe that when Akatosh/Auri-El killed Lorkhaan... He ripped him into two pieces, and then "ripped his heart right out." Im basing some of this off of the red diamond song and other pieces of lore. But as I said, I think the lore states that the moons are two parts of a whole.

ArchMikem

People have said Masser and Secunda are just minor planes that aren't actual spheres, but a flat circular view or portal of the planes that we see from the surface of Nirn. No matter what position they are in the sky, or where we are on Nirn, we're always seeing a direct on view of the planes which gives us that circle, or the false sense of a sphere.

And I thought Nirn was supposed to be the dead remains of Lorkhan. He gave his existence to create the world?

DoctorESO

DragonKiller12348 wrote: »

I have been playing The Elder Scrolls: 3, 4, and 5. While I have been playing, I have been studying, and watching the moons for at least a month in each game. What I have seen is that Secunda orbits Masser. But I have proof that Masser is its own planet, which is very big and very far from Nirn.
Starting off Secunda orbits Masser which, if this was in our universe, would make Masser a planet and not a moon. Next just knowing the theory that the moons could be Lorkhaan himself, would explain some things such as why they look the size of moons. This is proven where if Masser was bigger than Nirn, as Lorkhaan is a god you know, but far away from it, Masser would look like a moon and so would Secunda This would be the same if Mars was closer to Earth, in which it would look the same size as the moon. Lastly, why does it seem like the moons still orbit Nirn? This can only be proven where if Nirn was stuck in the center of the universal magical field present in The Elder Scrolls. This makes everything look like it orbits Nirn, although they orbit the field Nirn is stuck in. The only difference is that science works differently in this universe.
I would like some ideas on why this is true or why it is not. I hope you enjoy my theory.

The moons belong to everyone. The best things in life are free.

The stars belong to everyone. They cling there for you and for me.

Flowers in spring, the robins that sing,

The sunbeams that shine, they're yours and their mine.

Love can come to everyone. The best things in life, they're free.

Enodoc

DragonKiller12348 wrote: »

Lantian_Doco wrote: »

Hmh... if Masser is Lorkhan... what the heck is Secunda?

I believe that when Akatosh/Auri-El killed Lorkhaan... He ripped him into two pieces, and then "ripped his heart right out." Im basing some of this off of the red diamond song and other pieces of lore. But as I said, I think the lore states that the moons are two parts of a whole.

Right. The Lunar Lorkhan is the main book on the subject. The reason they are considered moons, at least in my interpretation, is because they are dead, no longer with that divine spark and thus no longer eligible to be considered a proper plane(t). And also because they are two halves of one whole plane(t), precluding each one from being a literal plane(t) of its own (although each one does have its own plane). Cosmology presents a slightly different interpretation of moons, in that every moon is still a plane(t), but each moon is considered a moon by being the attendant spirit of a greater plane(t). The biggest issue here though is that size is irrelevant, since every plane(t) is of infinite size. No matter how close or how far away Masser and Secunda actually are from Nirn (if that dimensional axis even exists), they will always appear the same size. As will the eight other plane(t)s.

Saturnana

DragonKiller12348 wrote: »

I have been playing The Elder Scrolls: 3, 4, and 5. While I have been playing, I have been studying, and watching the moons for at least a month in each game. What I have seen is that Secunda orbits Masser. But I have proof that Masser is its own planet, which is very big and very far from Nirn.
Starting off Secunda orbits Masser which, if this was in our universe, would make Masser a planet and not a moon. Next just knowing the theory that the moons could be Lorkhaan himself, would explain some things such as why they look the size of moons. This is proven where if Masser was bigger than Nirn, as Lorkhaan is a god you know, but far away from it, Masser would look like a moon and so would Secunda This would be the same if Mars was closer to Earth, in which it would look the same size as the moon. Lastly, why does it seem like the moons still orbit Nirn? This can only be proven where if Nirn was stuck in the center of the universal magical field present in The Elder Scrolls. This makes everything look like it orbits Nirn, although they orbit the field Nirn is stuck in. The only difference is that science works differently in this universe.
I would like some ideas on why this is true or why it is not. I hope you enjoy my theory.

Having a satellite orbit an object in space, does not necessarily make the object a planet. *Nerd-mode-activate*
For something to be called a planet IRL, it has to:
- be orbiting a star or stellar remnant
- be big enough to retain a round shape through the pull of its own gravity
- be small enough to not cause thermonuclear fusion (i.e. a star)
- have cleared its immediate area / neighboring region of other planetesimals

It's technically possible for a moon to be orbiting another moon (within orbit of a planet), though that has - as far as I can find - never been observed in our visible universe. There's actually an interesting theory going around where scientists are expecting some of Jupiter's larger moons to have moons of their own, though! (Makes sense to me since Jupiter's Ganymede is larger than Mercury )

While a part of your premise may not be entirely correct because it's based on IRL science (and you can't compare that to Nirn's fantastical magic), I completely agree with your outcome and find it a fascinating theory! It would certainly explain a LOT if Nirn were in fact at the centre of its (visible) universe in some way.

Enodoc

lnsane wrote: »

It would certainly explain a LOT if Nirn were in fact at the centre of its (visible) universe in some way.

Infinity has no centre, but the existence of infinities within infinities results in the mortal perception that an infinity contained within another infinity is closer to the observer. Since every infinity associated with Mundus is contained within the infinity of Oblivion, every perceivable plane(t) and moon is closer to Nirn than the perceivable veil of Oblivion, resulting in the perception that Nirn is at the centre of that space.

Edit: My view is - although we'd need the records of the Imperial Mananauts to confirm this - if you were able to escape the confines of Nirn, and head towards the moons, plane(t)s or stars, you'd never actually get any closer to them, due to everything being infinitely far away.

Maryal

The moons are made of cheese!

Saturnana

Enodoc wrote: »

lnsane wrote: »

It would certainly explain a LOT if Nirn were in fact at the centre of its (visible) universe in some way.

Infinity has no centre, but the existence of infinities within infinities results in the mortal perception that an infinity contained within another infinity is closer to the observer. Since every infinity associated with Mundus is contained within the infinity of Oblivion, every perceivable plane(t) and moon is closer to Nirn than the perceivable veil of Oblivion, resulting in the perception that Nirn is at the centre of that space.

Edit: My view is - although we'd need the records of the Imperial Mananauts to confirm this - if you were able to escape the confines of Nirn, and head towards the moons, plane(t)s or stars, you'd never actually get any closer to them, due to everything being infinitely far away.

That amount of infiniteness is mind-boggling. xD But you're right. Should have specified the perception of a central location, instead of actually being at that location in the visible universe. And that's one interesting theory! Would breaking the confines of Nirn then be the same as achieving CHIM? Being able to perceive the universe in its entirety?

Enodoc

lnsane wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

lnsane wrote: »

It would certainly explain a LOT if Nirn were in fact at the centre of its (visible) universe in some way.

Infinity has no centre, but the existence of infinities within infinities results in the mortal perception that an infinity contained within another infinity is closer to the observer. Since every infinity associated with Mundus is contained within the infinity of Oblivion, every perceivable plane(t) and moon is closer to Nirn than the perceivable veil of Oblivion, resulting in the perception that Nirn is at the centre of that space.

Edit: My view is - although we'd need the records of the Imperial Mananauts to confirm this - if you were able to escape the confines of Nirn, and head towards the moons, plane(t)s or stars, you'd never actually get any closer to them, due to everything being infinitely far away.

That amount of infiniteness is mind-boggling. xD But you're right. Should have specified the perception of a central location, instead of actually being at that location in the visible universe. And that's one interesting theory! Would breaking the confines of Nirn then be the same as achieving CHIM? Being able to perceive the universe in its entirety?

Hmm, that's an interesting question. Because breaking out of the confines of the Wheel and seeing the Tower is what Lorkhan did. If the structure of the Aurbis is wheels within wheels within wheels, then theoretically, yes.